No longer good enough to turn up for work and leave on time!
Discussion
Emeye said:
The fact that no-one is getting a bonus this year again as "This would mean making 7 people redundant", yet some of the directors have just got shiny new company SUVs seems lost on them.
For some reason, that last comment about the directors and their 'shiny new company SUVs' really got on my tits (something to do with my alcohol consumption tonight?! 
).You do know that at most places, a monthly fee is paid for a car and the vehicle gets replaced every so often. So if it's time to change, then so what? It's not like any extra money spent - same package as before - just because they have a new car...
Also, with the greatest of respect, do you have any idea if they are have taken a pay cut of some description at all...???
Anyway, back on topic - I have to say, that sounds like a bit of a piss take. As long as you're not one of those
s that won't pick up their pen until 9:00am (even if they've been in the office for 20 mins before hand) and as soon as it's 5:00pm they fk off dropping whatever it is they are in the middle of. It doesn't sound like this is the case with you and, quite frankly, isn't an ideal situation to be in!Cheers
The Moose
The Moose said:
Emeye said:
The fact that no-one is getting a bonus this year again as "This would mean making 7 people redundant", yet some of the directors have just got shiny new company SUVs seems lost on them.
For some reason, that last comment about the directors and their 'shiny new company SUVs' really got on my tits (something to do with my alcohol consumption tonight?! ).You do know that at most places, a monthly fee is paid for a car and the vehicle gets replaced every so often. So if it's time to change, then so what? It's not like any extra money spent - same package as before - just because they have a new car...
Also, with the greatest of respect, do you have any idea if they are have taken a pay cut of some description at all...???
Anyway, back on topic - I have to say, that sounds like a bit of a piss take. As long as you're not one of those
s that won't pick up their pen until 9:00am (even if they've been in the office for 20 mins before hand) and as soon as it's 5:00pm they fk off dropping whatever it is they are in the middle of. It doesn't sound like this is the case with you and, quite frankly, isn't an ideal situation to be in!Cheers
The Moose
If you tell a minimum wage member of staff they can't have a £200 bonus this year after working their tits off for years due to cuts yet then turn up in a brand new BMW X6 spec'd to the gills it's going to piss them off
If it was me I'd run a more reasonable car for work and then have my penis enlarging vehicle for my own time.
Management can be bloody thick, I just left a job where for the last 2 years the MD has done a presentation which included phrases such as 'this has been our best year trading ever, we've made x million of pounds' ... then within moments he's telling us how they've decided there wont be any company bonus this year due to the economic climate.
Two days later he sends an email saying he notices that people seem demotivated and he doesnt know why.
The first year the dozy prick decided 2 days after the no-bonus announcement would be a good time to pass around peoples forms to try and get the company into the 'top 500' list.
He was genuineliny confused as to why staff's responses werent good enough to get the company in the top 500, he was also confused as to why the lowest score was to the question 'do you trust your company MD?'
Two days later he sends an email saying he notices that people seem demotivated and he doesnt know why.
The first year the dozy prick decided 2 days after the no-bonus announcement would be a good time to pass around peoples forms to try and get the company into the 'top 500' list.
He was genuineliny confused as to why staff's responses werent good enough to get the company in the top 500, he was also confused as to why the lowest score was to the question 'do you trust your company MD?'
On the one hand, you've asked for a pay-rise, presumably for L'Oreal reasons since you're relatively new there; on the other hand you say you're not exactly over-worked and have spare capacity; and, er, on the third hand, you wonder why your boss thinks (albeit abridged) you're taking the piss with your clock watching, work to rule attitude? Sounds like your boss is now on a FIFO trip and, while it's a trite phrase, maybe 'perception is reality' for him.
Just a thought, no offence intended
Just a thought, no offence intended
bigandclever said:
On the one hand, you've asked for a pay-rise, presumably for L'Oreal reasons since you're relatively new there; on the other hand you say you're not exactly over-worked and have spare capacity; and, er, on the third hand, you wonder why your boss thinks (albeit abridged) you're taking the piss with your clock watching, work to rule attitude? Sounds like your boss is now on a FIFO trip and, while it's a trite phrase, maybe 'perception is reality' for him.
Just a thought, no offence intended
I see where you're coming from, but I have been there a while.Just a thought, no offence intended
The difficulty is that I find this job very easy because maybe I am over experienced and yet I rarely find I need to work extra hours, but I do if required. I'm doing my job properly if things are working and not going wrong. My boss and other staff will get stressed over issues that I find a fun challenge.
But I am worth it.
You can look at it on the flip side, if you put the effort in and do a few extra hours here and there then you will get noticed as a worker and it wil be more favourable when the next recommendations for promotions comes along.
This is why I have several friends who only do 9-5 and wonder why they are still on £35k jobs were as the ones of us that have done the extra hours have progressed and are on £20k or so more, it might not be just the extra hours and that they are good at their job but it is a easy way to get noticed.
I am contracted to do 8 hours a day and most days Im in at 8:15am and leave after 7pm even though Im not getting paid for it, the company seem happy with my progress as they are looking to extend the contract again with a payrise.
Just another way to look at it instead of looking at your boss, after all we all would like to be there in his situation, but remember he probably did exactly the same to get there.
This is why I have several friends who only do 9-5 and wonder why they are still on £35k jobs were as the ones of us that have done the extra hours have progressed and are on £20k or so more, it might not be just the extra hours and that they are good at their job but it is a easy way to get noticed.
I am contracted to do 8 hours a day and most days Im in at 8:15am and leave after 7pm even though Im not getting paid for it, the company seem happy with my progress as they are looking to extend the contract again with a payrise.
Just another way to look at it instead of looking at your boss, after all we all would like to be there in his situation, but remember he probably did exactly the same to get there.
Emeye said:
I did take this job as a 9 - 5.30 support job after being an IT consultant and PM working regular 50hr+ weeks. I earn a lot less but this suited me.
Sorry OP for going O/T but I'm interested in this. Mainly because I've done 2/3 of that. Started out as an IT Consultant and moved into Project Management a few years ago. Been with a new company for ~4 months, but it high pressure and managing 25+ active projects at any one time, so long hours and the commute is between 3 - 4 hours a day. Money is pretty good but if I'm honest, its making me miserable.Thinking of taking a step back early next year so wondered how you found going back to a support job? Do you find yourself pushing for more responsibility and work or are you happy with the slower pace?
This may offend a few of you, but I think those that are working massive unpaid and unappreciated OT hours are idiots. If you ran you're own businesses with a mindset like this you'll fail on a huge scale - you do work, you get paid for the work - end of.
If you're being made to feel as if you personally have to take some burden for company failings and your not at director level and beyond then what's it honestly got to with you? You're entitled to a life just as much as anyone else and if they want you to work all the hours under the sun then you would have to A) Agree to it and B) Be paid for it. A good company recognizes and rewards its employee's - even if it is just a pat on the back. You should never be made to feel like you're never doing enough!
It's a bit different if you're running off bang on 5.30 with urgent work outstanding, but your contract clearly states the hours you've agreed to work and if the those above you don't like it then they shouldn't have signed the contract. Tough luck. If you do your job well and put a lot of effort and required hours in, whats the problem? Seriously.
If they come back and state it's your responsibility and you should be doing more state you're contract is for X hours a day and if there is too much then its actually directors responsibility to correct it by getting another person in to help. You can't be expected to take on too much - you'll end up giving yourself heart attack and depression (and no job is worth that, trust me!)
If they then continue to make your life difficult, then its a big hint shouting in your face "YOU'RE IN THE WRONG COMPANY!". I'm speaking from experience, worked in these stupid conditions whilst one dictator was driving his Aston and going golfing every Friday afternoon whilst making me work like a slave and I quit after 5 months - best decision I ever made. I'm a very hard worker, do extra hours if required (albeit paid) and often go beyond the call of duty, but if anyone starts taking the mick affecting personal life then tough luck - not my problem what happens to the company at the end of the day. If you can hold your head high and honestly say you've done well with real effort then you can do no more.
One thing I learnt in life, which you should too - look after number one. Sure, provide a bit of OT here and there and effort can be rewarded, but know when you're being taken for a mug. Would you run a business like you're running your job? Probably not, yet whats different? Not a lot.
Just because someone is higher up in the company ladder than you doesn't mean they are always right and as a fellow human on this planet he/she has no right to command you stay over what was agreed in your contract.
Time to get a new job. Goodluck!
If you're being made to feel as if you personally have to take some burden for company failings and your not at director level and beyond then what's it honestly got to with you? You're entitled to a life just as much as anyone else and if they want you to work all the hours under the sun then you would have to A) Agree to it and B) Be paid for it. A good company recognizes and rewards its employee's - even if it is just a pat on the back. You should never be made to feel like you're never doing enough!
It's a bit different if you're running off bang on 5.30 with urgent work outstanding, but your contract clearly states the hours you've agreed to work and if the those above you don't like it then they shouldn't have signed the contract. Tough luck. If you do your job well and put a lot of effort and required hours in, whats the problem? Seriously.
If they come back and state it's your responsibility and you should be doing more state you're contract is for X hours a day and if there is too much then its actually directors responsibility to correct it by getting another person in to help. You can't be expected to take on too much - you'll end up giving yourself heart attack and depression (and no job is worth that, trust me!)
If they then continue to make your life difficult, then its a big hint shouting in your face "YOU'RE IN THE WRONG COMPANY!". I'm speaking from experience, worked in these stupid conditions whilst one dictator was driving his Aston and going golfing every Friday afternoon whilst making me work like a slave and I quit after 5 months - best decision I ever made. I'm a very hard worker, do extra hours if required (albeit paid) and often go beyond the call of duty, but if anyone starts taking the mick affecting personal life then tough luck - not my problem what happens to the company at the end of the day. If you can hold your head high and honestly say you've done well with real effort then you can do no more.
One thing I learnt in life, which you should too - look after number one. Sure, provide a bit of OT here and there and effort can be rewarded, but know when you're being taken for a mug. Would you run a business like you're running your job? Probably not, yet whats different? Not a lot.
Just because someone is higher up in the company ladder than you doesn't mean they are always right and as a fellow human on this planet he/she has no right to command you stay over what was agreed in your contract.
Time to get a new job. Goodluck!
Edited by Anubis on Monday 22 November 12:00
Some good points Anubis
You are after all a long time dead, why waste your life working yourself into the ground for a company that doesn't appreciate it.
Do what you have to do within reason. Dont be a clock watcher or have a work to rule but dont kill yourself either unless you are suitably rewarded.
When the company/managment in question take the piss then its time to move on.
You are after all a long time dead, why waste your life working yourself into the ground for a company that doesn't appreciate it.
Do what you have to do within reason. Dont be a clock watcher or have a work to rule but dont kill yourself either unless you are suitably rewarded.
When the company/managment in question take the piss then its time to move on.
Edited by CHIEF on Monday 22 November 12:37
Anubis said:
This may offend a few of you, but I think those that are working massive unpaid and unappreciated OT hours are idiots. If you ran you're own businesses with a mindset like this you'll fail on a huge scale - you do work, you get paid for the work - end of.
If you're being made to feel as if you personally have to take some burden for company failings and your not at director level and beyond then what's it honestly got to with you? You're entitled to a life just as much as anyone else and if they want you to work all the hours under the sun then you would have to A) Agree to it and B) Be paid for it. A good company recognizes and rewards its employee's - even if it is just a pat on the back. You should never be made to feel like you're never doing enough!
It's a bit different if you're running off bang on 5.30 with urgent work outstanding, but your contract clearly states the hours you've agreed to work and if the those above you don't like it then they shouldn't have signed the contract. Tough luck. If you do your job well and put a lot of effort and required hours in, whats the problem? Seriously.
If they come back and state it's your responsibility and you should be doing more state you're contract is for X hours a day and if there is too much then its actually directors responsibility to correct it by getting another person in to help. You can't be expected to take on too much - you'll end up giving yourself heart attack and depression (and no job is worth that, trust me!)
If they then continue to make your life difficult, then its a big hint shouting in your face "YOU'RE IN THE WRONG COMPANY!". I'm speaking from experience, worked in these stupid conditions whilst one dictator was driving his Aston and going golfing every Friday afternoon whilst making me work like a slave and I quit after 5 months - best decision I ever made. I'm a very hard worker, do extra hours if required (albeit paid) and often go beyond the call of duty, but if anyone starts taking the mick affecting personal life then tough luck - not my problem what happens to the company at the end of the day. If you can hold your head high and honestly say you've done well with real effort then you can do no more.
One thing I learnt in life, which you should too - look after number one. Sure, provide a bit of OT here and there and effort can be rewarded, but know when you're being taken for a mug. Would you run a business like you're running your job? Probably not, yet whats different? Not a lot.
Just because someone is higher up in the company ladder than you doesn't mean they are always right and as a fellow human on this planet he/she has no right to command you stay over what was agreed in your contract.
Time to get a new job. Goodluck!
/\ This! If you're good at what you do, there's other jobs out there; if you're going to work hard it might as well be for a company that values it. Life's too short to spend it all working.If you're being made to feel as if you personally have to take some burden for company failings and your not at director level and beyond then what's it honestly got to with you? You're entitled to a life just as much as anyone else and if they want you to work all the hours under the sun then you would have to A) Agree to it and B) Be paid for it. A good company recognizes and rewards its employee's - even if it is just a pat on the back. You should never be made to feel like you're never doing enough!
It's a bit different if you're running off bang on 5.30 with urgent work outstanding, but your contract clearly states the hours you've agreed to work and if the those above you don't like it then they shouldn't have signed the contract. Tough luck. If you do your job well and put a lot of effort and required hours in, whats the problem? Seriously.
If they come back and state it's your responsibility and you should be doing more state you're contract is for X hours a day and if there is too much then its actually directors responsibility to correct it by getting another person in to help. You can't be expected to take on too much - you'll end up giving yourself heart attack and depression (and no job is worth that, trust me!)
If they then continue to make your life difficult, then its a big hint shouting in your face "YOU'RE IN THE WRONG COMPANY!". I'm speaking from experience, worked in these stupid conditions whilst one dictator was driving his Aston and going golfing every Friday afternoon whilst making me work like a slave and I quit after 5 months - best decision I ever made. I'm a very hard worker, do extra hours if required (albeit paid) and often go beyond the call of duty, but if anyone starts taking the mick affecting personal life then tough luck - not my problem what happens to the company at the end of the day. If you can hold your head high and honestly say you've done well with real effort then you can do no more.
One thing I learnt in life, which you should too - look after number one. Sure, provide a bit of OT here and there and effort can be rewarded, but know when you're being taken for a mug. Would you run a business like you're running your job? Probably not, yet whats different? Not a lot.
Just because someone is higher up in the company ladder than you doesn't mean they are always right and as a fellow human on this planet he/she has no right to command you stay over what was agreed in your contract.
Time to get a new job. Goodluck!
Edited by Anubis on Monday 22 November 12:00
ally_f said:
Anubis said:
This may offend a few of you, but I think those that are working massive unpaid and unappreciated OT hours are idiots. If you ran you're own businesses with a mindset like this you'll fail on a huge scale - you do work, you get paid for the work - end of.
If you're being made to feel as if you personally have to take some burden for company failings and your not at director level and beyond then what's it honestly got to with you? You're entitled to a life just as much as anyone else and if they want you to work all the hours under the sun then you would have to A) Agree to it and B) Be paid for it. A good company recognizes and rewards its employee's - even if it is just a pat on the back. You should never be made to feel like you're never doing enough!
It's a bit different if you're running off bang on 5.30 with urgent work outstanding, but your contract clearly states the hours you've agreed to work and if the those above you don't like it then they shouldn't have signed the contract. Tough luck. If you do your job well and put a lot of effort and required hours in, whats the problem? Seriously.
If they come back and state it's your responsibility and you should be doing more state you're contract is for X hours a day and if there is too much then its actually directors responsibility to correct it by getting another person in to help. You can't be expected to take on too much - you'll end up giving yourself heart attack and depression (and no job is worth that, trust me!)
If they then continue to make your life difficult, then its a big hint shouting in your face "YOU'RE IN THE WRONG COMPANY!". I'm speaking from experience, worked in these stupid conditions whilst one dictator was driving his Aston and going golfing every Friday afternoon whilst making me work like a slave and I quit after 5 months - best decision I ever made. I'm a very hard worker, do extra hours if required (albeit paid) and often go beyond the call of duty, but if anyone starts taking the mick affecting personal life then tough luck - not my problem what happens to the company at the end of the day. If you can hold your head high and honestly say you've done well with real effort then you can do no more.
One thing I learnt in life, which you should too - look after number one. Sure, provide a bit of OT here and there and effort can be rewarded, but know when you're being taken for a mug. Would you run a business like you're running your job? Probably not, yet whats different? Not a lot.
Just because someone is higher up in the company ladder than you doesn't mean they are always right and as a fellow human on this planet he/she has no right to command you stay over what was agreed in your contract.
Time to get a new job. Goodluck!
/\ This! If you're good at what you do, there's other jobs out there; if you're going to work hard it might as well be for a company that values it. Life's too short to spend it all working.If you're being made to feel as if you personally have to take some burden for company failings and your not at director level and beyond then what's it honestly got to with you? You're entitled to a life just as much as anyone else and if they want you to work all the hours under the sun then you would have to A) Agree to it and B) Be paid for it. A good company recognizes and rewards its employee's - even if it is just a pat on the back. You should never be made to feel like you're never doing enough!
It's a bit different if you're running off bang on 5.30 with urgent work outstanding, but your contract clearly states the hours you've agreed to work and if the those above you don't like it then they shouldn't have signed the contract. Tough luck. If you do your job well and put a lot of effort and required hours in, whats the problem? Seriously.
If they come back and state it's your responsibility and you should be doing more state you're contract is for X hours a day and if there is too much then its actually directors responsibility to correct it by getting another person in to help. You can't be expected to take on too much - you'll end up giving yourself heart attack and depression (and no job is worth that, trust me!)
If they then continue to make your life difficult, then its a big hint shouting in your face "YOU'RE IN THE WRONG COMPANY!". I'm speaking from experience, worked in these stupid conditions whilst one dictator was driving his Aston and going golfing every Friday afternoon whilst making me work like a slave and I quit after 5 months - best decision I ever made. I'm a very hard worker, do extra hours if required (albeit paid) and often go beyond the call of duty, but if anyone starts taking the mick affecting personal life then tough luck - not my problem what happens to the company at the end of the day. If you can hold your head high and honestly say you've done well with real effort then you can do no more.
One thing I learnt in life, which you should too - look after number one. Sure, provide a bit of OT here and there and effort can be rewarded, but know when you're being taken for a mug. Would you run a business like you're running your job? Probably not, yet whats different? Not a lot.
Just because someone is higher up in the company ladder than you doesn't mean they are always right and as a fellow human on this planet he/she has no right to command you stay over what was agreed in your contract.
Time to get a new job. Goodluck!
Edited by Anubis on Monday 22 November 12:00
This.
I was one of those "idiots" who worked their ass off for the company/the boss. I did this for years, being good at what I do and loving it too. But in the end, the company didn't reward hard work, loyalty and overtime.
I now do the same job as a freelance, and I still work hard (says the guy on PH
), and work overtime if required/requested. But I charge my hours for it.What they are asking of you is taking the piss tbh...
Fatman2 said:
Anubis said:
This may offend a few of you, .........
Well said that man Edited by Anubis on Monday 22 November 12:00
Sadly the sheer amount of people doing 110% make it worse for the rest of us and make managers think that doing 110% is normal.
I spent most of my twenties doing the same thing, impressing by "going the extra mile", read working long hours doing nothing. It's a city culture that still thrives. In London everyone turns up to work at 9.30 because going home before 6.30 is frowned upon. I prefer an 8.15 start and a 5pm finish, horses for courses. All these people work their lunch and are contracted for 35 hours. Mugs.
The worst thing about it is that if I work long hours in the office I'm less productive by far for the rest of the week.
I learned the lesson early on that it's not worth staying to do unpaid work on anything like a regular basis. It won't serve any real, fruitful purpose for the company, it just grinds you down and you won't be appreciated for what you do even then.
Sounds like it's time to move on.
I learned the lesson early on that it's not worth staying to do unpaid work on anything like a regular basis. It won't serve any real, fruitful purpose for the company, it just grinds you down and you won't be appreciated for what you do even then.
Sounds like it's time to move on.
My ex-boss used to whinge if anyone was less than half an hour early arriving and left less than an hour after the end of working hours. A couple of my staff worked through until 4 am every night for a week to get an urgent contract sorted - and a week later, when one of the girls involved asked for an hour off to go to the dentist, he told her she'd have to make her hours up. 
Life's just too short for that kind of thing. Now I'm self-employed, I can still work long hours if I want - but at least I get paid for them nowadays.
That said, it's not easy to tell your boss where to get off. Some of them actually seem to expect the extra hours as some kind of "for the good of the company" freebie, and they don't even bother to say thanks for all the hard work.
Life's just too short for that kind of thing. Now I'm self-employed, I can still work long hours if I want - but at least I get paid for them nowadays.
That said, it's not easy to tell your boss where to get off. Some of them actually seem to expect the extra hours as some kind of "for the good of the company" freebie, and they don't even bother to say thanks for all the hard work.
MSTRBKR said:
When I was working on my placement last year, I'd only leave on time if I had finished the work that needed to be done that day, or if I knew I could finish work that was due the next day in the time I had to do it that day.
There's a vast difference though between applying that philosphy at a company that supports you, does what it can to ensure the workload is even and constructive without customers being repeatedly over promised and one that does not.Origin Unknown said:
Emeye said:
I did take this job as a 9 - 5.30 support job after being an IT consultant and PM working regular 50hr+ weeks. I earn a lot less but this suited me.
Sorry OP for going O/T but I'm interested in this. Mainly because I've done 2/3 of that. Started out as an IT Consultant and moved into Project Management a few years ago. Been with a new company for ~4 months, but it high pressure and managing 25+ active projects at any one time, so long hours and the commute is between 3 - 4 hours a day. Money is pretty good but if I'm honest, its making me miserable.Thinking of taking a step back early next year so wondered how you found going back to a support job? Do you find yourself pushing for more responsibility and work or are you happy with the slower pace?
I had 9 projects of differing sizes at one time and I argued that I couldn't reliably manage all of them at once. I got it reduced, but how do you manage 25 projects? That's not much more than 1 working day per project per month! It's no wonder you have to put your hours in. I once turned down a very well paid PM job when they told me I'd have 30 projects. And that is a depressing commute.
I maybe went a bit too far the other way though, but it suited me at the time as instead of get up, 30-45min commute, work 10 or more hrs - 20mins commute home (quieter run as after working hours), dinner, stay awake til 2 in the morning to maximise my own time, then bed, I now have a max 20mins commute, work 9-5.30 then 20ish mins home. Dinner then chill out/do my own thing.
I used the free time to get fit and to do up a house - 2 years later I've got a baby due any day now and a 7 year old but I have time to spend with my family.
I'm happier, but I must admit I do feel I would like more responsibility and want to earn more money, but I still want to keep a balance.
If you're not happy I don't see the point of being in the job - there was a time when I loved my high pressure, well paid job and I enjoyed the challenge, but I am now keen to maybe restart my career, but not at the risk of a happy family life.
The only issue is that the job market, especially up north, is not what it was so it's hard to be picky - I was unemployed for 4 months after taking vol redundancy in 2008 as I was so keep to get the right job for me, but the job market was bad - luckily I had a decent pay-off to keep me going, now I have responsibilities so I couldn't do it again.
Cheers.
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