Friend sacked, potentially unfair dismissal?

[Tsippy]

A friend of mine works in a warehouse and sometimes had to drive a stacker truck (forklift).

Last week he misjudged the gap to a lorry he was was loading and the truck slipped into a gap and had to be towed out. As a result, he was dismissed for gross misconduct on H&S grounds.

I had a chat with him and he has had no training on the forklifts, and I personally think that dismissing him on gross misconduct for what was basically an accident is a bit OTT.

There is no damage to the forklift, no damage to the lorry, no damage to the goods loaded. The only damage was to his pride!

Can this be classed as gross misconduct? The chap is out of a job now, and with work difficult to come by at the moment I think he'll struggle

[SplatSpeed]

he is not supposed to be driving it according to H&S without a ticket!

was he told this!

[Tsippy]

I'll find out. I did think the same that any mobile machinary in a work place needed a licence of some sort / some form of training.

[SplatSpeed]

forklifts need a ticket

busnisses need to enforce this rigourisly

if the busisness told him to drive with no ticket they are fubared!

[Tsippy]

Says he was not told, and his training consisted of a current worker showing how to move the forklift.

[MATTP77]

HSE would have a field day with company not having competent plant operators at work.

[Wacky Racer]

The rules on driving fork lift trucks are extremely strict, H&S will have a field day.....If the firm knew he was driving without training they are on a very sticky wicket.

If he was driving without permission I don't think he has a leg to stand on.




All imho, (usual disclaimers apply etc, etc.)

[SplatSpeed]

Tsippy said:

Says he was not told, and his training consisted of a current worker showing how to move the forklift.

tell him to ask for his job back and proper training or he goes to HSE!

there are a lot of crushed people under forklifts over the years!

[Tsippy]

Work told him to load up the lorry, so they were fully aware but he was not informed that he needed a licence / training etc

[SplatSpeed]

Tsippy said:

Work told him to load up the lorry, so they were fully aware but he was not informed that he needed a licence / training etc

they so screwed

anyone have a ticket?

[helmutlaang]

MATTP77 said:

HSE would have a field day with company not having competent plant operators at work.

This.

Also he would almost be guaranteed to win an unfair dismissal case due to the fact he was not trained to do the job and as a direct result of that an incident took place which lead to his dismissal.

[MATTP77]

If this was not outlined - and the operator wasnt trained or briefed (AND HAVE NO RECORD OF SUCH BRIEFING) the company are screwed....

CPCS i believe is one of the accredited trainers in the UK and as the above comments suggest - it is a course which employers must ensure their operators are au fait with.

If your friend didnt sign anything re: operating machinery etc, and he didnt know he had not been suitably trained, (which i find pretty hard to believe - even so; pleading ignorance gets him a case) then he has every right to an unfair dismissal claim?

Not to mention you will have out of court settlement offers coming out of your ears to stop your friend going to court via the HSE.

[MATTP77]

helmutlaang said:

This.

Also he would almost be guaranteed to win an unfair dismissal case due to the fact he was not trained to do the job and as a direct result of that an incident took place which lead to his dismissal.

If of course, said operative has not signed anything - and is blissfully unaware of the competencies stipulated by industry standards!

[Sheets Tabuer]

Will the person who told him to load the lorry admit it, does he have a witness who is prepared to state he was told to load the lorry?

Doubt it on both counts.

[SplatSpeed]

Sheets Tabuer said:

Will the person who told him to load the lorry admit it, does he have a witness who is prepared to state he was told to load the lorry?

Doubt it on both counts.

does anyone there have the correct ticket??

[Sheets Tabuer]

I was going to suggest he needed a ticket

Anyhow even if he was told to use the fork lift I doubt it would go down very well, what is the old saying about if someone told you to jump off a bridge?

[MATTP77]

Sheets Tabuer said:

Will the person who told him to load the lorry admit it, does he have a witness who is prepared to state he was told to load the lorry?

Doubt it on both counts.

at the end of the day - he was operating a piece of plant that he was not trained on. So either, he gets adequately trained, and his job back (or a case regarding him being put to work unsafely and probably that of his colleagues without tickets as well), or he is dismissed for gross misconduct for knowing that he was not permitted to operate the machinery and did it anyway?

Law bamboozles me. But with legality as it is these days, im sure you can get money out of a stone for tripping on it, so i am sure you have a case if your friend isnt talking lies!

[MATTP77]

the guy who "taught him" how to use the machinery would also lose his ticket and face prosecution....

[Tsippy]

He is unsure whether others have received training, I asked him about the details of his contract ie whether it states he'd need to drive a forklift but he has never signed one (He has been there just under a year).

I was under the impression that after 3 months a contract was required?

[SplatSpeed]

Sheets Tabuer said:

I was going to suggest he needed a ticket

Anyhow even if he was told to use the fork lift I doubt it would go down very well, what is the old saying about if someone told you to jump off a bridge?

telling an employee to use a forklift without checking their ticket is major breech of H&S

not telling employees not to use a forklift in induction training is a major breech of H&S

the company is on a really stty wicket