1M - A few questions?

[terryb]

The 1M would be very hard to beat if I could only have 1 car, but I'm fortunate enough to own a GT3 too. For a daily drive I'd choose the 1M over the GT3 ( hardcore 996.1). I wouldn't be looking to change if I didn't have the GT3 though, and that's never going to be sold

[Dung8]

kmpowell said:

When you're looking, watch out for the ex-press cars that are now appearing after being sold by BMW UK to the dealer network. Many are on dealer forecourts and they are not forthcoming about it! Prices are not reflective of their history either. See here for an example... http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74...

Reg numbers you need to watch out for are:
YH11 GOX
YH11 GKY
YH11 MJK
YH11 OHR
YH11 NUE
YH11 GPF
YH11 FXC
YH11 HDJ
YH11 FAU
YH11 NUE

As for the Sat Nav thing. I ordered mine basic, completely box fresh apart from BMWP grilles and pedals. When I Came to sell I had no problem shifting it. Buy on the mileage and history, not on options.

This is my car. Ex press-used for what I can only assume we're test drives. Have an email from the dealer confirming it was abused and that future warranty would be unaffected.

Love me car. Doesn't change my feelings towards it

[Rsmatt]

Great Pretender said:

I honestly cannot understand why anyone would buy a 1M over a 997 C2S. Truly baffling.

And for the record, the CSL is in a different stratosphere as a driver's car.

i have read through this thread and i cant get my head around what your on about at all, How anyone owning a Gt3 and having owned multiple BMW's including the M3CSL can completely slag off the 1M is beyond me the 1M is everybit a drivers car the CSL is and is in many peoples opinion one of the best all round drivers fun cars on the market today! all you have to do is read the motoring press to get a quite rounded view even if you haven't driven one (which i don't think you have by the way!) If you had driven one you wouldn't have posted such utter tosh on here!
I did try a 997cs2 and i loved it, its a great car but i didn't think it was as much fun as the 1M to drive!
I Love cars in general a GT3RS would be great to own but i'm not there yet, but when people on forums completely slag off what are great cars just for the sake of it i start to question whether they actually own the cars they state or are they just forum jokies? i think you probably fall into the later if not you are the one who is truely baffling!

[MattOz]

Rsmatt said:

Great Pretender said:

I honestly cannot understand why anyone would buy a 1M over a 997 C2S. Truly baffling.

And for the record, the CSL is in a different stratosphere as a driver's car.

i have read through this thread and i cant get my head around what your on about at all, How anyone owning a Gt3 and having owned multiple BMW's including the M3CSL can completely slag off the 1M is beyond me the 1M is everybit a drivers car the CSL is and is in many peoples opinion one of the best all round drivers fun cars on the market today! all you have to do is read the motoring press to get a quite rounded view even if you haven't driven one (which i don't think you have by the way!) If you had driven one you wouldn't have posted such utter tosh on here!
I did try a 997cs2 and i loved it, its a great car but i didn't think it was as much fun as the 1M to drive!
I Love cars in general a GT3RS would be great to own but i'm not there yet, but when people on forums completely slag off what are great cars just for the sake of it i start to question whether they actually own the cars they state or are they just forum jokies? i think you probably fall into the later if not you are the one who is truely baffling!

Matt,

GP is Scottish. Enough said!

[E30M3SE]

Rsmatt said:

Great Pretender said:

I honestly cannot understand why anyone would buy a 1M over a 997 C2S. Truly baffling.

And for the record, the CSL is in a different stratosphere as a driver's car.

i have read through this thread and i cant get my head around what your on about at all, How anyone owning a Gt3 and having owned multiple BMW's including the M3CSL can completely slag off the 1M is beyond me the 1M is everybit a drivers car the CSL is and is in many peoples opinion one of the best all round drivers fun cars on the market today! all you have to do is read the motoring press to get a quite rounded view even if you haven't driven one (which i don't think you have by the way!) If you had driven one you wouldn't have posted such utter tosh on here!
I did try a 997cs2 and i loved it, its a great car but i didn't think it was as much fun as the 1M to drive!
I Love cars in general a GT3RS would be great to own but i'm not there yet, but when people on forums completely slag off what are great cars just for the sake of it i start to question whether they actually own the cars they state or are they just forum jokies? i think you probably fall into the later if not you are the one who is truely baffling!

Oh dear, this ain't going to go well.

[ChrisBuer]

Great Pretender - Have you driven a 1M or are you basing your conclusions on what you "think" it's like?

I've never driven a GT3 (would love to) but I have had many a drive in a 997 Turbo which was great. However I will not make any comments on the GT3 as I can't because I've not driven it.

[MattOz]

Not here to defend him, but GP has driven a 1M.

[Leins]

Rsmatt said:

i have read through this thread and i cant get my head around what your on about at all, How anyone owning a Gt3 and having owned multiple BMW's including the M3CSL can completely slag off the 1M is beyond me the 1M is everybit a drivers car the CSL is and is in many peoples opinion one of the best all round drivers fun cars on the market today! all you have to do is read the motoring press to get a quite rounded view even if you haven't driven one (which i don't think you have by the way!) If you had driven one you wouldn't have posted such utter tosh on here!
I did try a 997cs2 and i loved it, its a great car but i didn't think it was as much fun as the 1M to drive!
I Love cars in general a GT3RS would be great to own but i'm not there yet, but when people on forums completely slag off what are great cars just for the sake of it i start to question whether they actually own the cars they state or are they just forum jokies? i think you probably fall into the later if not you are the one who is truely baffling!

Rsmatt, can I turn your argument on its head, and ask if you have spent any time with a CSL? If so, would you mind briefly summarising why you think the 1M and the CSL are so similar in terms of driver appeal?

I'll give you one massive difference, and that's noise. Now people may spout on about 'ring times and power outputs and the like, but this is the one key area where the two really differ, and for me is a major factor in the involvement as a driver. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really like the 1M, but would only consider one as a dd. There's no way I'd use a CSL as a daily, although I know a few people have done

BTW, with GP's history of cars, I respect his opinion massively

[ChrisBuer]

Leins said:

BTW, with GP's history of cars, I respect his opinion massively

It's kind of irrelevant if he hasn't driven a 1M though. If he has, then I agree his views are valid.

However the more time I spend on PH, the more I realise everyone has an opinion about how good or bad a car is, but have never even sat in said car!

It's like me stating for fact that an F430 is a better car than an LP540. I've no idea as I've never even sat in either, let along driven them....

[Leins]

ChrisBuer said:

It's kind of irrelevant if he hasn't driven a 1M though. If he has, then I agree his views are valid.

However the more time I spend on PH, the more I realise everyone has an opinion about how good or bad a car is, but have never even sat in said car!

It's like me stating for fact that an F430 is a better car than an LP540. I've no idea as I've never even sat in either, let along driven them....

True enough, everyone's coming from different sides on this. I just think, as a CSL owner and having been in a 1M (not driving myself admittedly), the biggest differences I found were the noise and the interior, including the seats. Now this won't be a deal-breaker for many on here, but it would be for me. The sound of the car is probably the main reason I don't intend selling it (but not the only reason), and wouldn't consider a 1M as a replacement

But I can understand why someone, with other priorities and uses for their car, think differently

Edited by Leins on Friday 2nd November 17:06

[0836whimper]

Jonny F said:

In fact the only car that has ever interested me other than our friends from Stuttgart was the CSL but the prices for those cars at nearly 10 years old and ragged to death are just madness.

Off topic I know, but I thought that for a long time…and was leaning towards a E9X M3.

Then I had a moment of clarity.

- They are the same price now as when I decided not to buy one three years ago and I bought an M3 instead (which has lost 8k in the same time...) Goddamit.
- Many still have a warranty on them
- Most are cherished (warranty and very dedicated owners whose car's history is likely on CSL register)
- I've never seen so many people admit they sold a car, and then regretted it, even when 'upgrading' to more exotic metal.

[nottyash]

Great Pretender said:

It's the price of the 1M that gets me. If it was mid thirties new, then I'd understand, but at £45k+ with options, it was just madness!

In my humble opinion...

And how much is a new 997 C2S that your comparing it with?

[Rsmatt]

Leins said:

Rsmatt, can I turn your argument on its head, and ask if you have spent any time with a CSL? If so, would you mind briefly summarising why you think the 1M and the CSL are so similar in terms of driver appeal?

I'll give you one massive difference, and that's noise. Now people may spout on about 'ring times and power outputs and the like, but this is the one key area where the two really differ, and for me is a major factor in the involvement as a driver. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really like the 1M, but would only consider one as a dd. There's no way I'd use a CSL as a daily, although I know a few people have done

BTW, with GP's history of cars, I respect his opinion massively

Please read the post properly!

My issue with gp was nothing to do with csl's or porsches or any other car he may or may not have owned it was about the fact that he is slagging off a car he has had a brief at most encounter with!

the owner of the rally cross team i drove for in 2009 owns a csl and i have had the pleasure of driving it on road and track it was great and we had alot of fun in it, would i chose one over a 1M not a chance!

I like to drive my 1M not admire its seats and interior BTW

Edited by Rsmatt on Friday 2nd November 21:32

Edited by Rsmatt on Friday 2nd November 21:34

[Rsmatt]

nottyash said:

And how much is a new 997 C2S that your comparing it with?

it was a second hand one that they were comparing it to.

Edited by Rsmatt on Friday 2nd November 21:41

[Leins]

Rsmatt said:

Please read the post properly!

My issue with gp was nothing to do with csl's or porsches or any other car he may or may not have owned it was about the fact that he is slagging off a car he has had a brief at most encounter with!

the owner of the rally cross team i drove for in 2009 owns a csl and i have had the pleasure of driving it on road and track it was great and we had alot of fun in it, would i chose one over a 1M not a chance!

I like to drive my 1M not admire its seats and interior BTW

I did read the post properly, specifically where you made the claim that "the 1M is everybit a drivers car the CSL is"! I, in return, am wondering why you think this is the case. Simple as that, no hidden agendas

I like to drive my CSL also, but still "admire" my seats and the noise the car makes more than your's. Each to their own I suppose, and these are both things that I value highly in the whole driving experience of a car, BUT not the only important things to me, as I see you are implying with your last line. You've spent time with both, so what does the 1M do better than the CSL in terms of driver involvement that balances up the argument - better steering feedback, quicker steering, better damping across rougher roads, more performance, ...? Maybe you prefer the manual box to SMGII, and that's fair enough if that's the case, but I personally wouldn't swap it in the CSL for fast-road use

I am genuinely interested, as this is a question I have asked before, but no-one has been able to answer

Edited by Leins on Saturday 3rd November 00:46

[Rsmatt]

F

Leins said:

I did read the post properly, specifically where you made the claim that "the 1M is everybit a drivers car the CSL is"! I, in return, am wondering why you think this is the case. Simple as that, no hidden agendas

I like to drive my CSL also, but still "admire" my seats and the noise the car makes more than your's. Each to their own I suppose, and these are both things that I value highly in the whole driving experience of a car, BUT not the only important things to me, as I see you are implying with your last line. You've spent time with both, so what does the 1M do better than the CSL in terms of driver involvement that balances up the argument - better steering feedback, quicker steering, better damping across rougher roads, more performance, ...? Maybe you prefer the manual box to SMGII, and that's fair enough if that's the case, but I personally wouldn't swap it in the CSL for fast-road use

I am genuinely interested, as this is a question I have asked before, but no-one has been able to answer

Edited by Leins on Saturday 3rd November 00:46

I got the impression from your reply that you assumed I was knocking the csl I certainly wasn't, I love the csl but I do love my 1m more and like you I wouldnt swap!
Again I didn't state the 1m does anything better than the csl I don't want to start a my car is better than yours argument with you it's all about personnel preference. The reason I love my 1m so much is as I have stated like the csl it is an event to drive the steering is sharp like the csl, the handling is really good as demonstrated on our recent trip to Wales even over rougher roads! It does have a manual gearbox which I do like, the noise my car makes I also love, the noise of Stuart's csl ( my old boss) wasn't the stand out thing for me with the csl.
The thing that the 1m does better the the csl is its faster, the engine is much more aggressive in power delivery and its a bit dangerous! It's the kind of car that feels a little bit on the edge if you turn the traction off you have to pay proper attention and I like that!
The seats in my 1m are not my favourite part but the rest of the interior I actually like, apart from your bucket seats and carbon door cards the csl interior is 3series just like mine is 1series with nicely stitched leather, I have however ordered recaro cs seats for mine so I'm not going to argue about the seats!
We organise trips and meets very regularly amongst our fellow 1m and m3 owners we are off to Isle of Man this month come along to some of them and meet us in person I think you'll find we are car enthusiasts and all of us will be dribbling over your csl at least one of our group of friends is a previous csl owner from new!
I just doubt like me many of the others would want to swap cars with you;)

I have just seen your in Ireland so maybe you should try and have a proper drive in one before you make your mind up about how something drives/handles you can always change the seats and exhaust!
But if you like many on here have made your mind up about the 1m already and it can't be as good as your csl that's fine to your loss, I guess I like my fellow 1m owners will still have a grin on my face

Edited by Rsmatt on Saturday 3rd November 08:45

Edited by Rsmatt on Saturday 3rd November 08:52

[terryb]

I don't think you should really be comparing a CSL to a 1M, because in my eyes they serve 2 different purposes, and I have owned both, so feel qualified to comment

I loved my CSL, the sound, speed of gear change, and ability on track with Michelin Cups was just epic. I had it as a daily driver for a year and it wasn't the best daily drive, but it was at the time the best car I had driven on track. I changed the CSL for a 996 GT3 and still have this after 3.5 yrs. This is the natural competitor to the CSL. In my mind it is better in most areas on track, but not on the road, but then mine is very extreme

The 1M should be compared to a standard M3 or a 911 Turbo. It is much more refined than a CSL or GT3 and makes a much better choice for a daily drive. The fact that it is a limited edition M makes it similar to a CSL but they are different cars intended for different people.... Or the same people when they want something more refined. In fact if you had a 1M for day to day and a CSL for weekemd and trackdays then you would be onto a winner

[V8A*ndy]

terryb said:

I don't think you should really be comparing a CSL to a 1M, because in my eyes they serve 2 different purposes, and I have owned both, so feel qualified to comment

I loved my CSL, the sound, speed of gear change, and ability on track with Michelin Cups was just epic. I had it as a daily driver for a year and it wasn't the best daily drive, but it was at the time the best car I had driven on track. I changed the CSL for a 996 GT3 and still have this after 3.5 yrs. This is the natural competitor to the CSL. In my mind it is better in most areas on track, but not on the road, but then mine is very extreme

The 1M should be compared to a standard M3 or a 911 Turbo. It is much more refined than a CSL or GT3 and makes a much better choice for a daily drive. The fact that it is a limited edition M makes it similar to a CSL but they are different cars intended for different people.... Or the same people when they want something more refined. In fact if you had a 1M for day to day and a CSL for weekemd and trackdays then you would be onto a winner

The most sensible post on this thread so far.

You really need both cars in your life.

[Leins]

Rsmatt said:

I got the impression from your reply that you assumed I was knocking the csl I certainly wasn't, I love the csl but I do love my 1m more and like you I wouldnt swap!
Again I didn't state the 1m does anything better than the csl I don't want to start a my car is better than yours argument with you it's all about personnel preference. The reason I love my 1m so much is as I have stated like the csl it is an event to drive the steering is sharp like the csl, the handling is really good as demonstrated on our recent trip to Wales even over rougher roads! It does have a manual gearbox which I do like, the noise my car makes I also love, the noise of Stuart's csl ( my old boss) wasn't the stand out thing for me with the csl.
The thing that the 1m does better the the csl is its faster, the engine is much more aggressive in power delivery and its a bit dangerous! It's the kind of car that feels a little bit on the edge if you turn the traction off you have to pay proper attention and I like that!
The seats in my 1m are not my favourite part but the rest of the interior I actually like, apart from your bucket seats and carbon door cards the csl interior is 3series just like mine is 1series with nicely stitched leather, I have however ordered recaro cs seats for mine so I'm not going to argue about the seats!
We organise trips and meets very regularly amongst our fellow 1m and m3 owners we are off to Isle of Man this month come along to some of them and meet us in person I think you'll find we are car enthusiasts and all of us will be dribbling over your csl at least one of our group of friends is a previous csl owner from new!
I just doubt like me many of the others would want to swap cars with you;)

I have just seen your in Ireland so maybe you should try and have a proper drive in one before you make your mind up about how something drives/handles you can always change the seats and exhaust!
But if you like many on here have made your mind up about the 1m already and it can't be as good as your csl that's fine to your loss, I guess I like my fellow 1m owners will still have a grin on my face

Thanks for the reply. And I certainly wouldn't knock the 1M, as it's one of the very few BMWs from the last 5 years that I'm excited about (like the M3 GTS and Alpina B3 GT3). I love the looks of it and the bit of madness about the whole concept, plus many 1M owners seem to have established the sort of bond with their car that can be quite a rare thing. I'm also not blind to some of the faults that the CSL has, and in some areas it could learn a thing or two from my 22 year old E30, particularly around steering feedback. However, in the right location (up in the nearby hills) at the right time (early morning, dry, no traffic) it's just magic, and that's the most important thing for me. I suspect you find something similar with your car. Other people's talk of 'Ring time comparisons and 0-60s have always been inconsequential to me

BTW if you haven't been before, you'll have a blast at the IoM, great place. Visited there last summer:

[Leins]

V8A*ndy said:

The most sensible post on this thread so far.

You really need both cars in your life.

Ah, if only Andy. Unfortunately I'd then have a bank manager in my life too