e92 M3 - Michelin PSS vs Cup
Discussion
Hi All
I'm after your views of Michelin Pilot Super Sport versus Pilot Sport Cups for track day use. I'm taking my M3 to do a couple of days at Spa in a couple of months. I've already done a day at Silverstone on the current PS2s, and while they were OK, I was only doing 3 hot laps to ensure they didn't overheat!
I now have a second set of rims for some dedicated track day tyres - although I need to drive to Spa, do the two days, and then drive to the Champagne region for another couple of days.
In your opinion, which of these two tyres should I go for? I've seen some good reviews for PSSs, and I'm certain they would easily have enough life in them to do a few more track days after this trip. But how would the Cups compare? What would you do?
Cheers,
Darren
I'm after your views of Michelin Pilot Super Sport versus Pilot Sport Cups for track day use. I'm taking my M3 to do a couple of days at Spa in a couple of months. I've already done a day at Silverstone on the current PS2s, and while they were OK, I was only doing 3 hot laps to ensure they didn't overheat!
I now have a second set of rims for some dedicated track day tyres - although I need to drive to Spa, do the two days, and then drive to the Champagne region for another couple of days.
In your opinion, which of these two tyres should I go for? I've seen some good reviews for PSSs, and I'm certain they would easily have enough life in them to do a few more track days after this trip. But how would the Cups compare? What would you do?
Cheers,
Darren
I would stay with the Michelin PSS (Supersports I assume) as if it rains heavily the Cups will not be much fun. I am sure that there will be plenty who would still go with Cups and just encourage you to drive in the wake of the HGVs who will clear some of the standing water but PSS would be more of an all round option track.
With heavy use the efficacy of Cups in the wet will be further reduced.
Or take a set for track - Cups and PSS for the two day trip.
Pip
With heavy use the efficacy of Cups in the wet will be further reduced.
Or take a set for track - Cups and PSS for the two day trip.
Pip
I'm in a similar position. Got PSS on the car but not wanting to wreck them I picked up a set of 19" rims with worn cups on (1day left one them). My plan is to buy a new set of PSS and rotate the worn ones for track use.
Cups are really expensive, a lot more than PSS.
I've not tracked my E92 yet, I've been told I'll get two laps of silverstone in and the brakes will be gone. I realise its not going to be as focused as the last car (stripped out E46 M3 with big brakes and loads of goodies), but should be fun.
Cups are really expensive, a lot more than PSS.
I've not tracked my E92 yet, I've been told I'll get two laps of silverstone in and the brakes will be gone. I realise its not going to be as focused as the last car (stripped out E46 M3 with big brakes and loads of goodies), but should be fun.
keep with the PS2s until they need replacing.. lower the pressures when they get warm, and they do pretty well - but they are very pressure sensitive and pressure increases a lot when they get hot.
then go with PSS.
The cup+ on E92 m3 isn't as good as the original cup on the CSL... hopefully the Cup2 out later on this year will be available in e92 m3 sizes..
then go with PSS.
The cup+ on E92 m3 isn't as good as the original cup on the CSL... hopefully the Cup2 out later on this year will be available in e92 m3 sizes..
If the day is going to be dry then the cups will be excellent. I used PS2s on my first trackday and they were horrible. Even when adjusting the pressures they overheated and understeered everywhere.
Eventually I purchased a set of 219 18s and wrapped then in Toyo 888s in 255s and 275s. These were fantastic. You have to fiddle around with the tyre pressures quite a bit but they were, IMO, better than the cups on track but the tyre roar was awful.
Brakes. I used the BMW Performance pads and never had a problem with brake fade at Spa or the 'ring. I upgrade the brake lines with Goodridge items and changed the fluid to Castrol srf.
The E92 is great fun on track but keep and eye on your fuel gauge!
Eventually I purchased a set of 219 18s and wrapped then in Toyo 888s in 255s and 275s. These were fantastic. You have to fiddle around with the tyre pressures quite a bit but they were, IMO, better than the cups on track but the tyre roar was awful.
Brakes. I used the BMW Performance pads and never had a problem with brake fade at Spa or the 'ring. I upgrade the brake lines with Goodridge items and changed the fluid to Castrol srf.
The E92 is great fun on track but keep and eye on your fuel gauge!
Thanks for your replies folks! There's plenty of food for thought there. It sounds like the Pilot Super Sports could be the way to go, as the weather can't be guaranteed at Spa. Do the PSS overheat as much as the PS2s, or do they still work well at the higher temps generated on track?
krallicious said:
If the day is going to be dry then the cups will be excellent. I used PS2s on my first trackday and they were horrible. Even when adjusting the pressures they overheated and understeered everywhere.
with respect that's likely due to carrying too much energy into the corner, and thus overwhelming and overheating the tyre.it is possible to lap consistently quickly with PS2s, and keep them in a good operating window.
Likely moving to a grippier tyre, with less treadblocks to move has resulted in this characteristic is showing up less, but if you were to adjust your style a little you may find you end up quicker..
cpufreak said:
with respect that's likely due to carrying too much energy into the corner, and thus overwhelming and overheating the tyre.
it is possible to lap consistently quickly with PS2s, and keep them in a good operating window.
Likely moving to a grippier tyre, with less treadblocks to move has resulted in this characteristic is showing up less, but if you were to adjust your style a little you may find you end up quicker..
I did say first trackday. What you say may be correct but I found 888s suited my needs perfectly. I'm going to be trying PSSs in a week although on a different car.it is possible to lap consistently quickly with PS2s, and keep them in a good operating window.
Likely moving to a grippier tyre, with less treadblocks to move has resulted in this characteristic is showing up less, but if you were to adjust your style a little you may find you end up quicker..
Just as an update...
I decided to go the route of the Cups for my trip to Spa. We were very lucky and had fantastic weather. The Cups were great on track! They gave plenty of grip and confidence in the fast corners, and still allowed predictable adjustment of the cars attitude in the slower corners on the throttle. Understeer wasn't a problem, and once they were warm the levels of grip remained consistent. After 500 miles on track, and 1000 miles of easy road driving, I have just under 4mm of tread left all round, which came as a big surprise. I obviously need to go through the corners quicker!
I used Pagid RS19 pads, and I was very impressed with them. They didn't fade at all during the 20 minute stints I was doing. There is plenty of life left in them after the two days as well. The only drawbacks I've come across so far is that they are very dusty, and they squeal like a pig whenever I brake!
I decided to go the route of the Cups for my trip to Spa. We were very lucky and had fantastic weather. The Cups were great on track! They gave plenty of grip and confidence in the fast corners, and still allowed predictable adjustment of the cars attitude in the slower corners on the throttle. Understeer wasn't a problem, and once they were warm the levels of grip remained consistent. After 500 miles on track, and 1000 miles of easy road driving, I have just under 4mm of tread left all round, which came as a big surprise. I obviously need to go through the corners quicker!
I used Pagid RS19 pads, and I was very impressed with them. They didn't fade at all during the 20 minute stints I was doing. There is plenty of life left in them after the two days as well. The only drawbacks I've come across so far is that they are very dusty, and they squeal like a pig whenever I brake!
This thread answered my questions; going to do Castle Combe at the end of the month in the e92 M3 and have a nice set or broken in MPSS all round so should be good to go come rain or shine. Not budgeting for new tyres so won't be driving Paul Walker style, Jenson Button in changeable conditions is more my approach. Hoping to have another year out of this set on the road.
This sounded a great trip! Am planning a euro road trip with some car buddies next year so doing Spa and Nurburgring would be amazing if could fit both in.
This sounded a great trip! Am planning a euro road trip with some car buddies next year so doing Spa and Nurburgring would be amazing if could fit both in.
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