Discussion
E30M3SE said:
I have also seen this car in person and its no prize!
Not a shed by any means but its seen some action.
It had just had an Inspection 2 by BMW Park lane and they had filled with with 0w30!!!!!
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M5 London said:
Does look nice, but there is a lot going on with it.Described as very low mileage and very high spec, but it doesn't have a Sport Evo front spoiler, the seats aren't original, and the BBS wheels aren't M3 wheels.
I'd want the registration on show so I could do my own due diligence....
And on checking, this doesn't have the correct wheels either!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1990-G-BMW-M3-2-3-M3-2D-...
There's something about this car, I can't put my finger on it.
Though
"No accident history or repairs"
Is curious given wrong wheels and interestingly the side skirts are painted gloss, not matt like they should be.
No mention of history.
No mention of HPI clear (and the lack of plate is interesting)
I would be sceptical about the mileage. It's like the interior is new. Even with 35K on the clock, t;s still 27 years old! Id expect a little wear. Why would you do that? Stupid stick on "Carbon Fibre" s
te on the dash tooTheir "selection" of cars is bizarre. A RX7 imported from Japan. A Hummer from the US and this M3. (new German import?) Anyone local to there who can go and have a quick once over?
Edited by Rich_W on Friday 16th June 20:36
Looks like a Jap import to me...usual signs of Jap owners who cannot stop fiddling by fitting extras and also with speedos...
My own car is an AK05 spec Jap car. Fortunately most of the stuff on my car can be returned back to normal and the car is totally rust free albeit having had one respray for what appears to be cosmetic reasons
My own car is an AK05 spec Jap car. Fortunately most of the stuff on my car can be returned back to normal and the car is totally rust free albeit having had one respray for what appears to be cosmetic reasons
Edited by Paracetamol on Saturday 17th June 02:12
Paracetamol said:
Looks like a Jap import to me...usual signs of Jap owners who cannot stop fiddling by fitting extras and also with speedos...
Sadly a lot of Jap imports lose their history/miles on the boat over.
I know you should buy on condition, but no history makes this overpriced imo (since provenance is EVERYTHING with classics) and crucially very hard work to sell on later in life.
I'd rather have a car that had history for 160K miles and then a full nut and bolt resto than a car with alleged 35K and no history whatsoever.
My M3 came with zero history. In fact, coming from southern Ireland, it didn't even have a V5. I did find an old leaflet that came with the H&R suspension it was fitted with though. As a result I had no choice but to go with gut feeling and condition.
3 years on though and I have traced all of the previous UK owners and found out which dealership supplied my car new, back in 1991. In fact, it was through the first of the UK owners that I discovered Hamann Motorsport bought by car new and modified it for a show. In fact, I have managed to piece together a pretty comprehensive history and one of the things I like about keeping a 'readers car' thread here, is there no better way of recording how you use and take care of things.
3 years on though and I have traced all of the previous UK owners and found out which dealership supplied my car new, back in 1991. In fact, it was through the first of the UK owners that I discovered Hamann Motorsport bought by car new and modified it for a show. In fact, I have managed to piece together a pretty comprehensive history and one of the things I like about keeping a 'readers car' thread here, is there no better way of recording how you use and take care of things.
sim16v said:
Does look nice, but there is a lot going on with it.
Described as very low mileage and very high spec, but it doesn't have a Sport Evo front spoiler, the seats aren't original, and the BBS wheels aren't M3 wheels.
Why would it have a Sport Evo front splitter? It's not a Sport Evo and the front, or rear for that matter, spoliers were never available as factory options. It is wearing a Evo II front splitter not a factory option either.Described as very low mileage and very high spec, but it doesn't have a Sport Evo front spoiler, the seats aren't original, and the BBS wheels aren't M3 wheels.
The seats to my eye at least, and I should know, are OE Sport Evo seats in their factory leather finish.
Wheels look genuine enough to me too except the lips have been polished as opposed to being painted, easy enough resolved, the tinted rear windows grate on me more than the wheels.
The seller has added the build sheet to the ad and looking at it I would describe that car as high spec as well,
ebay advert said:
Factory order as follows:
Option 222: Active damper control suspension (K,N and Settings - Factory option)
Option 289: 16" Alloy wheels cross spoke with polished lip - Not sure the polished lip was actually a factory option...
Option 401: Sliding/vent electric sunroof
Option 410: Electric front windows
Option 415: Sunblind for rear window
Option 423: Velour floor mats
Option 428: Warning triangle
Option 500: Headlight washer sys/intensive cleaning -(Although not currently on the car looking at the pictures)
Option 510: Headlight beam throw control for low beam
Option 530: Air conditioning
Option 535: Electronic climate control
Option 540: Cruise control
Option 551: Onboard computer II
Option 655: BMW Bavaria C Business
Option 675: BMW sound system
Option 681: Roof antenna
Option 690: Cassette holder
Option 801: Germany version
(No connection to seller and I don't know the car)Option 222: Active damper control suspension (K,N and Settings - Factory option)
Option 289: 16" Alloy wheels cross spoke with polished lip - Not sure the polished lip was actually a factory option...
Option 401: Sliding/vent electric sunroof
Option 410: Electric front windows
Option 415: Sunblind for rear window
Option 423: Velour floor mats
Option 428: Warning triangle
Option 500: Headlight washer sys/intensive cleaning -(Although not currently on the car looking at the pictures)
Option 510: Headlight beam throw control for low beam
Option 530: Air conditioning
Option 535: Electronic climate control
Option 540: Cruise control
Option 551: Onboard computer II
Option 655: BMW Bavaria C Business
Option 675: BMW sound system
Option 681: Roof antenna
Option 690: Cassette holder
Option 801: Germany version
Paracetamol said:
How about a car that has no history but a full mechanical overhaul by a great specialist and whose body and interior of a low mileage car?
Depends on the price tbh. Of course people will buy cars without history. But I'm talking about my "hypothetical" money. If I was going to drop £60K I want the original books (like my old car had) and as much as possible.This was my old history (there was a gap of about a year from the previous owner) But it had everything else, even the sales receipt from 1991 with the original owners address in Koblenz on it (down the road from the 'Ring. so I suspect the car had been there before I went
)
To me, anyone dropping that much will have an eye on future values. So even if you buy one for full restoration. A history file prior to the work, and then one with all the receipts for the work is a great way of differentiating your car from another.
Slight tangent Singer, the 911 guys, say a lot of the cars they see come in for full work, are sometimes right sheds.
But even then I guess a lot are cars with history.EDIT
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
21K Full History and £10K more. I'm no fan of the soft tops, but it's telling that history and low miles adds 10K to the value
Edited by Rich_W on Saturday 17th June 15:23
Gents,
I'm new to posting on this forum but have always been lurking around. I don't own an e30 M3 but I have hankered after one for nearly 20 years.
I have found and may now have the opportunity to purchase, a M3 evo SE from overseas and I'm looking for a little advice.
The car is a sport evolution AK07 that was shipped overseas from the uk more than 20 years ago. It has spent the last 10 years internally stored where the owner has began restoring it to its former glory. Like I said I have never owned an e30 M3 before so I'm looking for pointers on obvious issues that I should look out for. The things I can see that take away from its originality are, converted to RHD (I believe in the UK many moons ago), non standard wheels, interior is original but has been retrimmed incorrectly, exhaust isn't standard and it is missing a few original parts such as gear knob, steering wheel, red seat belts and a few other bits and pieces. It appears to be free from rust (dry country) which is a bonus and has only done 61,000 miles. I have never seen a M3 SE in recent times for sale that requires restoration work. All examples I have seen for sale are mint collectors items.
Has anyone got any ideas on what a car like this in this condition would be worth? Don't want to be paying over the odds.
Any help from anyone would be useful.
Cheers Alex
I'm new to posting on this forum but have always been lurking around. I don't own an e30 M3 but I have hankered after one for nearly 20 years.
I have found and may now have the opportunity to purchase, a M3 evo SE from overseas and I'm looking for a little advice.
The car is a sport evolution AK07 that was shipped overseas from the uk more than 20 years ago. It has spent the last 10 years internally stored where the owner has began restoring it to its former glory. Like I said I have never owned an e30 M3 before so I'm looking for pointers on obvious issues that I should look out for. The things I can see that take away from its originality are, converted to RHD (I believe in the UK many moons ago), non standard wheels, interior is original but has been retrimmed incorrectly, exhaust isn't standard and it is missing a few original parts such as gear knob, steering wheel, red seat belts and a few other bits and pieces. It appears to be free from rust (dry country) which is a bonus and has only done 61,000 miles. I have never seen a M3 SE in recent times for sale that requires restoration work. All examples I have seen for sale are mint collectors items.
Has anyone got any ideas on what a car like this in this condition would be worth? Don't want to be paying over the odds.
Any help from anyone would be useful.
Cheers Alex
May seem a silly thing to say, but first check you have a genuine SE and not one built up from a stock car etc.Take the mileage with a pinch of salt unless there is some something to substantiate it. Look carefully at the RHD conversion and see what's been done and to what standard. That means hacked wiring , the exhaust manifold ( different for the Sport Evo/expensive/rare ) may well different or cut I think to clear the steering. Racks don't look to be available from BMW but do seem to be listed aftermarket, but expensive. Secondhand ones are maybe £200 ish.
Evo parts like the steering wheel and gear knob are available or stock items can be retrimmed to match. Red seat belts can be replicated. It's kinda odd that these parts are missing. Maybe personal preference of the owner, but odd that they've removed the seat belts.
Do some Google work and you'll find a complete list of every part that is different on the SE and cross check against this car.
Wheels are available new, but I think those painted in the SE colour are NLA, so either a new silver set or secondhand set painted correctly.
Exhaust is something I don't think most worry too much about. Front section looks to be NLA from BMW and the rear around 550 Euro
When you said the seats have had a retrim, is this leather or cloth ? I think the seat material became available aftermarket for a short time, but seem to recall it wasn't a 100% perfect match. Hopefully someone else will add more to that. If leather, there shouldn't be any reason why they can't accurately retrim to match the stock seats. Also kinda odd they had a retrim a low mileage. If interior bits are missing, also check the front seats are the originals and not similar types that were Recaro aftermarket stuff.
As for value, very hard to say without more details or even a pic. But if you can get a nice one from a known retailer tomorrow at £100K , then deduct a sum of money from that which is more than going to cover all the costs to make them similar condition cars, plus a bit more, and you'll be somewhere in the right area. Are you looking to do the work on it yourself, or paying someone else ?
Evo parts like the steering wheel and gear knob are available or stock items can be retrimmed to match. Red seat belts can be replicated. It's kinda odd that these parts are missing. Maybe personal preference of the owner, but odd that they've removed the seat belts.
Do some Google work and you'll find a complete list of every part that is different on the SE and cross check against this car.
Wheels are available new, but I think those painted in the SE colour are NLA, so either a new silver set or secondhand set painted correctly.
Exhaust is something I don't think most worry too much about. Front section looks to be NLA from BMW and the rear around 550 Euro
When you said the seats have had a retrim, is this leather or cloth ? I think the seat material became available aftermarket for a short time, but seem to recall it wasn't a 100% perfect match. Hopefully someone else will add more to that. If leather, there shouldn't be any reason why they can't accurately retrim to match the stock seats. Also kinda odd they had a retrim a low mileage. If interior bits are missing, also check the front seats are the originals and not similar types that were Recaro aftermarket stuff.
As for value, very hard to say without more details or even a pic. But if you can get a nice one from a known retailer tomorrow at £100K , then deduct a sum of money from that which is more than going to cover all the costs to make them similar condition cars, plus a bit more, and you'll be somewhere in the right area. Are you looking to do the work on it yourself, or paying someone else ?
Edited by Deptford Draylons on Monday 19th June 11:27
There were some red SE seat belts advertised a few months ago. I think they were around £550 the set?
One would hope such a low mileage SE wouldn't need a huge amount of restoration. I can imagine some of the usual e30 corrosion but seems odd that the interior would be re trimmed. Do you know the final seven VIN digits? Can maybe find out some more information in relation to cars history.
It's hard to put a value on a car you can't see but, going by values of other examples, I would guess upwards of £65 - 70K, assuming there's no significant bodywork or engine work required.
One would hope such a low mileage SE wouldn't need a huge amount of restoration. I can imagine some of the usual e30 corrosion but seems odd that the interior would be re trimmed. Do you know the final seven VIN digits? Can maybe find out some more information in relation to cars history.
It's hard to put a value on a car you can't see but, going by values of other examples, I would guess upwards of £65 - 70K, assuming there's no significant bodywork or engine work required.
Thanks for the response guys. The full vin is WBSAK07010AC79341. I would be looking at doing the majority of the work myself, that's where some of the enjoyment comes from for me.
The seats have been retrimmed with leather outer and red cloth inners. Freshly done and a nice job but far from original but appear to be original seats. If the mileage is correct the interior must have had a hard life as the carpets were tired and dirty and were out of the car. The carpets being out of the car has allowed me to check for rust / rot of which I can't find any though, which is good news.
Does anyone know the major company's back in the day that carried out RHD conversions? I did contact Birds but they had no records of the vehicle. Does the fact that it's has been converted take away a large portion of its value? Or would that be dependant on who conducted the work? I cannot decide wether it bothers me or not. I wanted a M3 to use and enjoy and cannot help but think that a LHD would make it feel that bit more special.
If I can learn any history on the car it may make the purchasing a little easier for me.
Alex
The seats have been retrimmed with leather outer and red cloth inners. Freshly done and a nice job but far from original but appear to be original seats. If the mileage is correct the interior must have had a hard life as the carpets were tired and dirty and were out of the car. The carpets being out of the car has allowed me to check for rust / rot of which I can't find any though, which is good news.
Does anyone know the major company's back in the day that carried out RHD conversions? I did contact Birds but they had no records of the vehicle. Does the fact that it's has been converted take away a large portion of its value? Or would that be dependant on who conducted the work? I cannot decide wether it bothers me or not. I wanted a M3 to use and enjoy and cannot help but think that a LHD would make it feel that bit more special.
If I can learn any history on the car it may make the purchasing a little easier for me.
Alex
I remember a sport evo years ago which had the same retrimmed seats as you describe - looked awful ! Still can't work out why someone would remove all the key changes of an SE in the interior. I Don't recall the car I mention being RHD though. Do you know when it was converted , or if its current overseas location is why it was converted ? I think Australia had some law on these having to be RHD, so the cheap UK cars years ago got exported and converted locally.
I'd say the RHD conversion drops the value, unless you find the odd buyer that might actually want it. Given they're now firmly in the collector mad value area where originality is king, then expect to sell it for less if you ever did. Birds converted cars used a 325i rack which is slower and the pedal conversion I'm told spoils some of the brake feel. A faster rack will bring the steering back to closer or beyond what it should be.
If you don't convert it back, I'd source all the parts needed to do so anyway. The value will only go up and should you ever sell up, you could convert it back or add it as a package to ease any sale.
I'd say the RHD conversion drops the value, unless you find the odd buyer that might actually want it. Given they're now firmly in the collector mad value area where originality is king, then expect to sell it for less if you ever did. Birds converted cars used a 325i rack which is slower and the pedal conversion I'm told spoils some of the brake feel. A faster rack will bring the steering back to closer or beyond what it should be.
If you don't convert it back, I'd source all the parts needed to do so anyway. The value will only go up and should you ever sell up, you could convert it back or add it as a package to ease any sale.
If I were you Alex I would most certainly convert back to LHD. I've only seen a couple of RHD conversions and I just didn't like either of them. It would also make prospective market (were you ever to sell) far greater.
I have a contact who can do the belts for you, using OE webbing from original belt manufacturer.
I'll see if I can find anything out using the VIN, although there are people on this thread with better knowledge / contacts than I.
I have a contact who can do the belts for you, using OE webbing from original belt manufacturer.
I'll see if I can find anything out using the VIN, although there are people on this thread with better knowledge / contacts than I.
Apparently the car was converted to RHD before it was exported more than 20 years ago. Back then I don't think people cared for originality. It was probably seen more of an annoyance to its original owner. So he had the vehicle converted before its exportation or bought it already converted.
I agree with you on the seats. I can't understand why you wouldn't go full cloth or full leather not a mixture of the two. Its a relatively simple fix though.
That's great news on the belts, I thought they would be difficult to source. I'd imagine an M3 steering rack wont be easy to find though.
Alex
I agree with you on the seats. I can't understand why you wouldn't go full cloth or full leather not a mixture of the two. Its a relatively simple fix though.
That's great news on the belts, I thought they would be difficult to source. I'd imagine an M3 steering rack wont be easy to find though.
Alex
There was a couple of racks on eBay about a month ago that never sold. I recall they were priced around £200. They don't seem to be snapped up like engine and trim parts , so shouldn't be too hard to find. Maybe ask on places like S14.net or E30zone.
You can always use a different rack which is a touch faster. Not original and may need custom hoses, but plenty of people fit faster racks to non M3 E30's. I'd definitely try and source all the original parts to be able to revert back to LHD, even if you don't do so.
You can always use a different rack which is a touch faster. Not original and may need custom hoses, but plenty of people fit faster racks to non M3 E30's. I'd definitely try and source all the original parts to be able to revert back to LHD, even if you don't do so.
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