Discussion
Welshbeef said:
Has anyone driven the race prepared 300bhp+ versions?
Do they suffer from the same extremely high p for peak torque and is the torque also notably lower than its peers ? Just picked up on this in Harry’s Garage video on the E30 Rivi limited edition 1989 version he has a video on.
Mmm, not sure if serious?Do they suffer from the same extremely high p for peak torque and is the torque also notably lower than its peers ? Just picked up on this in Harry’s Garage video on the E30 Rivi limited edition 1989 version he has a video on.
The characteristics of a any high output (Race) NA engine are determined by the fact it will be 80-90 lbft/lt and limited to a peak piston speed of about 25m/s.
The stock S14 makes in the region of 70-78lbft/lt and about 100bhp/lt. For 1987, that was quite something, there was no VVT/VTEC/VANOS back then. They are also only 2.3-2.5lt.
Peak torque as a comparator is misleading, spread of torque is what matters. But, there is no getting away from the fact a small NA engine will need to be revved to make power, in the s14's case, between 3-7k rpm.
That is part of the fun.
There was a non-BMW (Poss Dinan?) stroker kit to 2.7 (or 2.8?) Which I recall meant the bore/stroke ratio was far more square
Without looking into it any detail, I don't think you could bore the block to give 3.0Litre capacity. Oil and coolant too close to liners. (Porsche 968 had a 3litre 4 pot) Perhaps a bespoke "S14" block from someone like Millington Engines?
Without looking into it any detail, I don't think you could bore the block to give 3.0Litre capacity. Oil and coolant too close to liners. (Porsche 968 had a 3litre 4 pot) Perhaps a bespoke "S14" block from someone like Millington Engines?
stevesingo said:
There are conversions available for larger displacement, up to 2.9lt I believe. 95.5mm is as large as you can go on the block.
John Johnson in Germany produces 2.7 cranks and compatible rods and pistons. Yours for about 4500 euro.
Rarely hear of anyone doing this conversion though. John Johnson in Germany produces 2.7 cranks and compatible rods and pistons. Yours for about 4500 euro.
Wonder if you'd need the 8 injector set up, bigger TBs (slide even with the driveability problems?) and a different CF airbox to the one most people go for?
S1KRR said:
Rarely hear of anyone doing this conversion though.
Wonder if you'd need the 8 injector set up, bigger TBs (slide even with the driveability problems?) and a different CF airbox to the one most people go for?
It is not unheard of in the S14 powered circles.Wonder if you'd need the 8 injector set up, bigger TBs (slide even with the driveability problems?) and a different CF airbox to the one most people go for?
Depends on what cams and head you choose to run. Aim for 320hp+ using BMW Motorsport Grp A cams with a 31mm intake port and big valve head and you might need to go to 49mm TBs.
John Johnson himself uses 49mm slide throttles without reporting any loss of drivability in comparison to normal TBs.
A 2.7 would make a good tractable 300hp engine, perhaps Redux should use that instead. It would be one less aspect wrong with the car.
e46m3Mark said:
200+ on top of your donor car.
Assuming that's in £K, it's cheaper than Singer, but not by much. ($400K is a bit over £300K at present.)Forbes said:
Singer Vehicle Design’s basic restoration services begin at $395,000 but average $600,000, “which is still way too cheap,” says Dickinson, “for the assiduous labor and hand-built parts required.” (He does, however, hold a “deep-seated English guilt” over the steep price tag.)
silentbrown said:
e46m3Mark said:
200+ on top of your donor car.
Assuming that's in £K, it's cheaper than Singer, but not by much. ($400K is a bit over £300K at present.)Forbes said:
Singer Vehicle Design’s basic restoration services begin at $395,000 but average $600,000, “which is still way too cheap,” says Dickinson, “for the assiduous labor and hand-built parts required.” (He does, however, hold a “deep-seated English guilt” over the steep price tag.)
stevesingo said:
It is not unheard of in the S14 powered circles.
Depends on what cams and head you choose to run. Aim for 320hp+ using BMW Motorsport Grp A cams with a 31mm intake port and big valve head and you might need to go to 49mm TBs.
John Johnson himself uses 49mm slide throttles without reporting any loss of drivability in comparison to normal TBs.
A 2.7 would make a good tractable 300hp engine, perhaps Redux should use that instead. It would be one less aspect wrong with the car.
Just had a quick look at his work on S14Power. Depends on what cams and head you choose to run. Aim for 320hp+ using BMW Motorsport Grp A cams with a 31mm intake port and big valve head and you might need to go to 49mm TBs.
John Johnson himself uses 49mm slide throttles without reporting any loss of drivability in comparison to normal TBs.
A 2.7 would make a good tractable 300hp engine, perhaps Redux should use that instead. It would be one less aspect wrong with the car.
If I had the money...
I asked the garage who are preparing my M3 for sale to open the bottom end just as a precaution..pleasanty surprised when I received these pictures..almost no wear at 106k kms. This together with clean bill of health from ML (some useful detailed points noted) and a confirmed rust and accident free body are making me have second thoughts!
Edited by Paracetamol on Saturday 20th April 20:46
Paracetamol said:
mark.c said:
I think you've answered your own question 
Thanks Mark..definitely doesn't look like a hardship owning it. I have visions of turning it into a concours car underneath too and keeping it in the collection.Love the list of cars in your fleet..some definite keepers there!
I have to agree with Steve and Mark, I sold one many years ago and regretted it and had to find my way back into another, luckily before prices went daft. The trouble I found was I got used to it and underestimated how good a drive they really are....until it was gone!
I wouldn't worry about making it concours underneath, unless that's your thing. I would sympathetically protect it if required and enjoy! A rot free and mechanically sorted car is not easily replicated....
Sorry if that's not helping
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