BMW E46 M3, what is it to you, iconic, overrated, epic etc.?
Discussion
SidewaysSi said:
A proper 2 car garage would have been preferable e.g. Caterham/Elise and Integra DC2. If the cars had to be standard.
The M3 was compromised in all ways. Fine if your bar is relatively low but somewhat disappointing if you were expecting a proper driver's car.
People who say it has decent steering feel haven't driven a car that actually does has decent steering feel.
My E36 328 on E30 arms, rebuilt Z3 rack, X-brace, M3 bushes etc. is a lot better than a standard M3 and even that is no match for a decent unassisted set up. The E46 steering was fine in a saloon car context, which may have been acceptable for the majority of customers.
Unfortunately, many people have been brought up on over assisted cars so think these things somehow represent a high water mark. It's all relative.
The M3 has always been compromised by being based on sharing a platform with the boggo 3-series. It is a fantastic car, of that there is no question and the M division have worked wonders but something that was designed from the off as a sports car will always be far less compromised. The M3 was compromised in all ways. Fine if your bar is relatively low but somewhat disappointing if you were expecting a proper driver's car.
People who say it has decent steering feel haven't driven a car that actually does has decent steering feel.
My E36 328 on E30 arms, rebuilt Z3 rack, X-brace, M3 bushes etc. is a lot better than a standard M3 and even that is no match for a decent unassisted set up. The E46 steering was fine in a saloon car context, which may have been acceptable for the majority of customers.
Unfortunately, many people have been brought up on over assisted cars so think these things somehow represent a high water mark. It's all relative.
Fastdruid said:
The M3 has always been compromised by being based on sharing a platform with the boggo 3-series. It is a fantastic car, of that there is no question and the M division have worked wonders but something that was designed from the off as a sports car will always be far less compromised.
Talk about Ferraris on a ferrari group chatSidewaysSi said:
A proper 2 car garage would have been preferable e.g. Caterham/Elise and Integra DC2. If the cars had to be standard.
The M3 was compromised in all ways. Fine if your bar is relatively low but somewhat disappointing if you were expecting a proper driver's car.
People who say it has decent steering feel haven't driven a car that actually does has decent steering feel.
My E36 328 on E30 arms, rebuilt Z3 rack, X-brace, M3 bushes etc. is a lot better than a standard M3 and even that is no match for a decent unassisted set up. The E46 steering was fine in a saloon car context, which may have been acceptable for the majority of customers.
Unfortunately, many people have been brought up on over assisted cars so think these things somehow represent a high water mark. It's all relative.
you know flop allThe M3 was compromised in all ways. Fine if your bar is relatively low but somewhat disappointing if you were expecting a proper driver's car.
People who say it has decent steering feel haven't driven a car that actually does has decent steering feel.
My E36 328 on E30 arms, rebuilt Z3 rack, X-brace, M3 bushes etc. is a lot better than a standard M3 and even that is no match for a decent unassisted set up. The E46 steering was fine in a saloon car context, which may have been acceptable for the majority of customers.
Unfortunately, many people have been brought up on over assisted cars so think these things somehow represent a high water mark. It's all relative.
SidewaysSi said:
Joscal said:
TorqueDirty said:
I had one form nearly new and I echo what others have said about them not being anywhere near as good as everyone made out.
Brakes were rubbish - they faded even on the road after only a few minutes of spirited driving, the engine lacked torque (but was sublime when on full chat), the steering was not sharp enough for a proper sports car and the gear lever feel was horrid (forget "snicking" in to the next gear. it was like linkage was made of old rubber bands and leather strapping). Suspension was also only average.
It was eye wateringly expensive to run too. Mine was not reliable and I had to chuck thousands at it before it even got to 50k miles.
Had it not been for the hype I would have been pretty pleased with it as a do anything fast car, but I was expecting much more.
My real issue was that it was not good enough as a sports car but in trying to be one it was compromised as an everyday fast coupe (see comment about torque). The two throttle maps were also frustrating. Sport was kangaroo city when not really pressing on and the standard map was lethargic to say the least.
Having said all of the above I think I would like it a lot more now than I did then because I would simply thrash it, and I'd also probably throw some money at the suspension and brakes.
TD
Valid but what would you have bought at the time that was better? Brakes were rubbish - they faded even on the road after only a few minutes of spirited driving, the engine lacked torque (but was sublime when on full chat), the steering was not sharp enough for a proper sports car and the gear lever feel was horrid (forget "snicking" in to the next gear. it was like linkage was made of old rubber bands and leather strapping). Suspension was also only average.
It was eye wateringly expensive to run too. Mine was not reliable and I had to chuck thousands at it before it even got to 50k miles.
Had it not been for the hype I would have been pretty pleased with it as a do anything fast car, but I was expecting much more.
My real issue was that it was not good enough as a sports car but in trying to be one it was compromised as an everyday fast coupe (see comment about torque). The two throttle maps were also frustrating. Sport was kangaroo city when not really pressing on and the standard map was lethargic to say the least.
Having said all of the above I think I would like it a lot more now than I did then because I would simply thrash it, and I'd also probably throw some money at the suspension and brakes.
TD
The M3 was compromised in all ways. Fine if your bar is relatively low but somewhat disappointing if you were expecting a proper driver's car.
People who say it has decent steering feel haven't driven a car that actually does has decent steering feel.
My E36 328 on E30 arms, rebuilt Z3 rack, X-brace, M3 bushes etc. is a lot better than a standard M3 and even that is no match for a decent unassisted set up. The E46 steering was fine in a saloon car context, which may have been acceptable for the majority of customers.
Unfortunately, many people have been brought up on over assisted cars so think these things somehow represent a high water mark. It's all relative.
TD
SidewaysSi said:
I bought an E36 328i instead and will chuck £5k+ at that to make, what is for me, a more exciting and interesting car (though it is still the everyday car as opposed to a weekend fub machine). Not to mention quite a bit lighter than a standard M3
.
Your money/car obviously, but as much as I liked my E36 328 Coupe I think you're nuts. Money permitting I'd start with an E36 M3 for the engine and gearbox alone..
E46 is last proper M3 for me. Brakes can be improved with better fluid and pads, if you don't want to spend out on a BBK, and a purple tag or Z3 rack is hardly expensive.
If I didn't have the E30 I'd definitely have an E46 instead. As well as being a great drive they look awesome and have aged remarkably well.
People are raving about the latest Ring time in the GT3RS and you can do the same sort of time in an E46 M3 if you supercharge it. A car that's been around for 17 years! Just goes to show what a hugely capable chassis it has.
If I didn't have the E30 I'd definitely have an E46 instead. As well as being a great drive they look awesome and have aged remarkably well.
People are raving about the latest Ring time in the GT3RS and you can do the same sort of time in an E46 M3 if you supercharge it. A car that's been around for 17 years! Just goes to show what a hugely capable chassis it has.
TorqueDirty said:
SidewaysSi said:
Joscal said:
TorqueDirty said:
I had one form nearly new and I echo what others have said about them not being anywhere near as good as everyone made out.
Brakes were rubbish - they faded even on the road after only a few minutes of spirited driving, the engine lacked torque (but was sublime when on full chat), the steering was not sharp enough for a proper sports car and the gear lever feel was horrid (forget "snicking" in to the next gear. it was like linkage was made of old rubber bands and leather strapping). Suspension was also only average.
It was eye wateringly expensive to run too. Mine was not reliable and I had to chuck thousands at it before it even got to 50k miles.
Had it not been for the hype I would have been pretty pleased with it as a do anything fast car, but I was expecting much more.
My real issue was that it was not good enough as a sports car but in trying to be one it was compromised as an everyday fast coupe (see comment about torque). The two throttle maps were also frustrating. Sport was kangaroo city when not really pressing on and the standard map was lethargic to say the least.
Having said all of the above I think I would like it a lot more now than I did then because I would simply thrash it, and I'd also probably throw some money at the suspension and brakes.
TD
Valid but what would you have bought at the time that was better? Brakes were rubbish - they faded even on the road after only a few minutes of spirited driving, the engine lacked torque (but was sublime when on full chat), the steering was not sharp enough for a proper sports car and the gear lever feel was horrid (forget "snicking" in to the next gear. it was like linkage was made of old rubber bands and leather strapping). Suspension was also only average.
It was eye wateringly expensive to run too. Mine was not reliable and I had to chuck thousands at it before it even got to 50k miles.
Had it not been for the hype I would have been pretty pleased with it as a do anything fast car, but I was expecting much more.
My real issue was that it was not good enough as a sports car but in trying to be one it was compromised as an everyday fast coupe (see comment about torque). The two throttle maps were also frustrating. Sport was kangaroo city when not really pressing on and the standard map was lethargic to say the least.
Having said all of the above I think I would like it a lot more now than I did then because I would simply thrash it, and I'd also probably throw some money at the suspension and brakes.
TD
The M3 was compromised in all ways. Fine if your bar is relatively low but somewhat disappointing if you were expecting a proper driver's car.
People who say it has decent steering feel haven't driven a car that actually does has decent steering feel.
My E36 328 on E30 arms, rebuilt Z3 rack, X-brace, M3 bushes etc. is a lot better than a standard M3 and even that is no match for a decent unassisted set up. The E46 steering was fine in a saloon car context, which may have been acceptable for the majority of customers.
Unfortunately, many people have been brought up on over assisted cars so think these things somehow represent a high water mark. It's all relative.
TD
blade7 said:
SidewaysSi said:
I bought an E36 328i instead and will chuck £5k+ at that to make, what is for me, a more exciting and interesting car (though it is still the everyday car as opposed to a weekend fub machine). Not to mention quite a bit lighter than a standard M3
.
Your money/car obviously, but as much as I liked my E36 328 Coupe I think you're nuts. Money permitting I'd start with an E36 M3 for the engine and gearbox alone..
My gearbox will have new mounts, UUC quickshift with DSSR and a lightweight flywheel and M5 clutch. For the type of driving I do, it is a cracker. And still has 15" wheels...
Edited by SidewaysSi on Sunday 22 April 00:35
Discussion inc opinions on E46 M3.
(Full interview click link in description)
https://youtu.be/DrHwXxabt-w
(Full interview click link in description)
https://youtu.be/DrHwXxabt-w
It was much better than the E36 which helped its reputation no end. It seemed a relative bargain but in reality it wasn't because it was too flawed and costs to maintain properly are high. Less said about the manual gear change the better. However, the chassis was good and it definitely had a sprinkling of E30 M3 DNA when on the limit but a whole lot more work keeping it there. With an E30 you can just naturally push it but with the E46 I always felt it was big deep breath and go for it.
Would I have another.....yes I'm actively looking although this time I'm going to mod it for track use.
In summary iconic not quite epic.
E30M3ZONE said:
It was much better than the E36 which helped its reputation no end. It seemed a relative bargain but in reality it wasn't because it was too flawed and costs to maintain properly are high. Less said about the manual gear change the better. However, the chassis was good and it definitely had a sprinkling of E30 M3 DNA when on the limit but a whole lot more work keeping it there. With an E30 you can just naturally push it but with the E46 I always felt it was big deep breath and go for it.
Would I have another.....yes I'm actively looking although this time I'm going to mod it for track use.
In summary iconic not quite epic.
True. The E36 M3 was pretty crap. Would I have another.....yes I'm actively looking although this time I'm going to mod it for track use.
In summary iconic not quite epic.
E30M3ZONE said:
It was much better than the E36 which helped its reputation no end. It seemed a relative bargain but in reality it wasn't because it was too flawed and costs to maintain properly are high. Less said about the manual gear change the better. However, the chassis was good and it definitely had a sprinkling of E30 M3 DNA when on the limit but a whole lot more work keeping it there. With an E30 you can just naturally push it but with the E46 I always felt it was big deep breath and go for it.
Would I have another.....yes I'm actively looking although this time I'm going to mod it for track use.
In summary iconic not quite epic.
I had a manual back in 2001, before an SMG and a CSL. I’d have kept the manual, but it was stolen. The 1st to 2nd change was stiff when cold, but otherwise, the gear change was fine as far as I was concerned.Would I have another.....yes I'm actively looking although this time I'm going to mod it for track use.
In summary iconic not quite epic.
Zod said:
E30M3ZONE said:
It was much better than the E36 which helped its reputation no end. It seemed a relative bargain but in reality it wasn't because it was too flawed and costs to maintain properly are high. Less said about the manual gear change the better. However, the chassis was good and it definitely had a sprinkling of E30 M3 DNA when on the limit but a whole lot more work keeping it there. With an E30 you can just naturally push it but with the E46 I always felt it was big deep breath and go for it.
Would I have another.....yes I'm actively looking although this time I'm going to mod it for track use.
In summary iconic not quite epic.
I had a manual back in 2001, before an SMG and a CSL. I’d have kept the manual, but it was stolen. The 1st to 2nd change was stiff when cold, but otherwise, the gear change was fine as far as I was concerned.Would I have another.....yes I'm actively looking although this time I'm going to mod it for track use.
In summary iconic not quite epic.
Edited by E30M3ZONE on Sunday 22 April 22:25
E30M3ZONE said:
I wonder if some were worse than others...mine was a low mileage <8000 miles when purchased. Mind you I do have a RS2000 Mk2 with less than 20000 which is a bit of a benchmark in terms of gear change... maybe I was just expecting too much.
The RS2 gearbox is basically a Capri/Cortina box with a modified gear lever. I don't remember anyone raving about Capri/Cortina 4sp gearboxes back in the day. I expect an M3 gearchange could be similarly improved.blade7 said:
SidewaysSi said:
True. The E36 M3 was pretty crap.
Seems an odd thing to say, when you're chucking £5k at an E36 328. Aside from the engine/gearbox/diff/trim that are better on the M3 Evo, they seemed very similar to me. Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff