BMW E46 M3, what is it to you, iconic, overrated, epic etc.?
Discussion
gizlaroc said:
Anyone who says they have no torque is completely missing the point of what the car offers.
It isn't instant power no matter what gear or rev range you are in like so many of the newer cars or the earlier turbo cars.
Ultimately this is why I didn't buy an M3, I wanted the wallop of torque an 80's turbo car gives from 3k. Not sure about the instant power though.It isn't instant power no matter what gear or rev range you are in like so many of the newer cars or the earlier turbo cars.
e30m3Mark said:
popeyewhite said:
There's only 269 lb/ft in the E46 M3, which is seriously lacking IMO. I think even a boggo 911 of the same year has more.
An '04 997 is actually larger capacity and makes a tad less than the M3. I imagine the M3 is a little heavier?In all of this debate, although touched on by a couple of people, I don't think it has been emphasised enough and that in itself is perhaps testament enough to say how good these cars were, is the fact that we are talking about a car that was actually launched 18 years ago! That is a long time ago in the evolution of cars and yet people here are mostly still talking about their relative merits and short-comings within a modern context.
The fact that it can still be debated as to whether or not this is a quick (enough) car 18 years on shows just how good it was.
If people were being honest they would admit that it was already within the vanguard of cars that were already too fast and already way beyond what most average drivers could use on a public road for more than just a few seconds. I'd say even the E36 M3 was probably close to or already at that level.
I'm old enough and have been driving for long enough to remember the first E30 M3s being available and we thought they were an incredible thing at the time. A BMW 3-Series that you could get up to over 140 mph on the M1 was astonishing!
In 2001, I was driving my E30 M3 as pretty much my daily driver. That was because I couldn't really afford an E36 M3. I had a couple of 'run-ins' against E36 M3s, on the public road, and they absolutely annihilated me in the E30. I used to 'race' people in those days and it's difficult to argue with someone when they've got 320 bhp and you've only got 215, believe me.
That same year, next door neighbour at that time (who always used to get the latest nice cars) then got a new E46 M3...one of the first in Scotland where we lived at the time. He let me have a drive of it...and it absolutely blew me away!
Just everything about it made my E30 M3 seem like it was from a totally different era...which of course it was. And it wasn't just the performance. The build quality improvement over and above the (low point) of the E36 was instantly plain to see.
I think any criticism or highlighted short-comings must now be seen and tempered with reference to the time that they were made....?
The fact that it can still be debated as to whether or not this is a quick (enough) car 18 years on shows just how good it was.
If people were being honest they would admit that it was already within the vanguard of cars that were already too fast and already way beyond what most average drivers could use on a public road for more than just a few seconds. I'd say even the E36 M3 was probably close to or already at that level.
I'm old enough and have been driving for long enough to remember the first E30 M3s being available and we thought they were an incredible thing at the time. A BMW 3-Series that you could get up to over 140 mph on the M1 was astonishing!
In 2001, I was driving my E30 M3 as pretty much my daily driver. That was because I couldn't really afford an E36 M3. I had a couple of 'run-ins' against E36 M3s, on the public road, and they absolutely annihilated me in the E30. I used to 'race' people in those days and it's difficult to argue with someone when they've got 320 bhp and you've only got 215, believe me.
That same year, next door neighbour at that time (who always used to get the latest nice cars) then got a new E46 M3...one of the first in Scotland where we lived at the time. He let me have a drive of it...and it absolutely blew me away!
Just everything about it made my E30 M3 seem like it was from a totally different era...which of course it was. And it wasn't just the performance. The build quality improvement over and above the (low point) of the E36 was instantly plain to see.
I think any criticism or highlighted short-comings must now be seen and tempered with reference to the time that they were made....?
Steven_RW said:
Danxr46 said:
I think the m3e46 sounds like a bag of sh*t. I’ve heard many and the engine note or exhaust note say isn’t anything special. They look okay but the interior is dated I think even for its age. Okay csl wise but they are nothing special.
"bag of sh*t"? I just don't remotely agree.
I drove 50k miles in mine as an every day car and also took it to Croft, Nurburgring and Knockhill.
I had AP 6 pots up front and AP 4 pots at the rear. Brakes were now fantastic. Intrax coilovers all round and a Supersprint light weight racing cat back exhaust with no centre resonator as well as turner bush limiting kit at the rear. I also had CSL wheels and Michelin PS2s.
The only downside that actually bothered me of the car was the standard steering rack was slow. Otherwise it was a seriously cool car. At the time the options available was moving to a CSl rack at +£1,000 so I held off.
I completed multiple 8:20 second laps BTG of the Nurburgring with 4 people onboard on that setup. Loads of fun.
Maybe not perfect but no chance a bag of sh*t.
RW
The exhaust was loud but it got rid of the tinny noise you are talking about.
Danxr46 said:
Yes that tinny noise...... isn’t pleasant. I’ve heard better diesels lol
Dan: My bad. I read your post as meaning that the whole concept of the M3 "sounds" like a piece of 5h1t rather than actually SOUNDING like 5h1t.Dear lord. Lack of coffee... only excuse. Still I think I addressed the noise point at the end.
Either way, I like the unique noise of a larger engine sound so light and crisp as std. But one SuperSprint lightweight racing system with no resonator and it sounded like a completely different animal! :-) 70mph drone included.
derin100 said:
In all of this debate, although touched on by a couple of people, I don't think it has been emphasised enough and that in itself is perhaps testament enough to say how good these cars were, is the fact that we are talking about a car that was actually launched 18 years ago! That is a long time ago in the evolution of cars and yet people here are mostly still talking about their relative merits and short-comings within a modern context.
The fact that it can still be debated as to whether or not this is a quick (enough) car 18 years on shows just how good it was.
If people were being honest they would admit that it was already within the vanguard of cars that were already too fast and already way beyond what most average drivers could use on a public road for more than just a few seconds. I'd say even the E36 M3 was probably close to or already at that level.
I'm old enough and have been driving for long enough to remember the first E30 M3s being available and we thought they were an incredible thing at the time. A BMW 3-Series that you could get up to over 140 mph on the M1 was astonishing!
In 2001, I was driving my E30 M3 as pretty much my daily driver. That was because I couldn't really afford an E36 M3. I had a couple of 'run-ins' against E36 M3s, on the public road, and they absolutely annihilated me in the E30. I used to 'race' people in those days and it's difficult to argue with someone when they've got 320 bhp and you've only got 215, believe me.
That same year, next door neighbour at that time (who always used to get the latest nice cars) then got a new E46 M3...one of the first in Scotland where we lived at the time. He let me have a drive of it...and it absolutely blew me away!
Just everything about it made my E30 M3 seem like it was from a totally different era...which of course it was. And it wasn't just the performance. The build quality improvement over and above the (low point) of the E36 was instantly plain to see.
I think any criticism or highlighted short-comings must now be seen and tempered with reference to the time that they were made....?
Spot on and well said that man. The fact that it can still be debated as to whether or not this is a quick (enough) car 18 years on shows just how good it was.
If people were being honest they would admit that it was already within the vanguard of cars that were already too fast and already way beyond what most average drivers could use on a public road for more than just a few seconds. I'd say even the E36 M3 was probably close to or already at that level.
I'm old enough and have been driving for long enough to remember the first E30 M3s being available and we thought they were an incredible thing at the time. A BMW 3-Series that you could get up to over 140 mph on the M1 was astonishing!
In 2001, I was driving my E30 M3 as pretty much my daily driver. That was because I couldn't really afford an E36 M3. I had a couple of 'run-ins' against E36 M3s, on the public road, and they absolutely annihilated me in the E30. I used to 'race' people in those days and it's difficult to argue with someone when they've got 320 bhp and you've only got 215, believe me.
That same year, next door neighbour at that time (who always used to get the latest nice cars) then got a new E46 M3...one of the first in Scotland where we lived at the time. He let me have a drive of it...and it absolutely blew me away!
Just everything about it made my E30 M3 seem like it was from a totally different era...which of course it was. And it wasn't just the performance. The build quality improvement over and above the (low point) of the E36 was instantly plain to see.
I think any criticism or highlighted short-comings must now be seen and tempered with reference to the time that they were made....?
I am lucky enough to own a 996.1 GT3 CS alongside my E46 M3. It goes to show, that I would have never in a million years considered a normal 996 as an alternative.
Having owned a few
///M cars along the way I would say that the E46 M3 (except the M1) is easily peak ///M car. It is not the most powerful, it is not the most engaging, it is not the most efficient or best looking, but the sum of its parts far exceeds anything BMW's ///M division has produced before or after... Khaki Suit said:
Can't get the idea of owning an E36 or E46 M3 out of my system. Would I be mad to get rid of my E60 M5 for either??
I don't think so, but then I drive an E30. Best thing is to drive one and see what you think. You only have to read this thread to see that for some they're brilliant and for others they're awful. Now I'm not saying the latter group are wrong, but the latter group are wrong. 
Steven_RW said:
Ali_T said:
The last great M3 but nowhere near as quick as owners think it is.
From say 30 to 100mph it isn't much faster than most sporty cars (example, clio 182?) which aligns with what you are saying, but if you hold 4th gear to 8,000 rpm in a well running one with good valve clearances on v-power, and then drop into fifth and on to the speed limiter it is in a more natural area of performance.That is my experience. If the test only lasts to 100mph, it won't seem anything special at all.
RW
Danxr46 said:
Steven_RW said:
Ali_T said:
The last great M3 but nowhere near as quick as owners think it is.
From say 30 to 100mph it isn't much faster than most sporty cars (example, clio 182?) which aligns with what you are saying, but if you hold 4th gear to 8,000 rpm in a well running one with good valve clearances on v-power, and then drop into fifth and on to the speed limiter it is in a more natural area of performance.That is my experience. If the test only lasts to 100mph, it won't seem anything special at all.
RW
e30m3Mark said:
blade7 said:
Wasn't there a track test back in the day between an E30 and E36 M3 where the E36 did a quicker lap. It may have been Soper driving?
Yes, but it's hardly surprising given the power advantage.blade7 said:
SidewaysSi said:
blade7 said:
SidewaysSi said:
True. The E36 M3 was pretty crap.
Seems an odd thing to say, when you're chucking £5k at an E36 328. Aside from the engine/gearbox/diff/trim that are better on the M3 Evo, they seemed very similar to me. greenarrow said:
I'm just wondering now if the E90 is a better bet? People say the E46 M3 is the last great M3, but didn't the E90 win pretty much every group test it was involved in from launch to retirement?
Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
You're probably right about being a group test winner ........Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
......unless it's an M3 group test.
Whenever they seem to get all the M3 models together and pick 'a best one' it always seems to be an E30 variant that gets the most votes
s m said:
greenarrow said:
I'm just wondering now if the E90 is a better bet? People say the E46 M3 is the last great M3, but didn't the E90 win pretty much every group test it was involved in from launch to retirement?
Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
You're probably right about being a group test winner ........Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
......unless it's an M3 group test.
Whenever they seem to get all the M3 models together and pick 'a best one' it always seems to be an E30 variant that gets the most votes
blade7 said:
s m said:
greenarrow said:
I'm just wondering now if the E90 is a better bet? People say the E46 M3 is the last great M3, but didn't the E90 win pretty much every group test it was involved in from launch to retirement?
Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
You're probably right about being a group test winner ........Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
......unless it's an M3 group test.
Whenever they seem to get all the M3 models together and pick 'a best one' it always seems to be an E30 variant that gets the most votes
They're journos so I guess they're taking things like steering feel, feedback, handling and smiles per mile into account as well
Does always seem to be the E30 though
s m said:
In that case they'd always pick the newest M3 though
They're journos so I guess they're taking things like steering feel, feedback, handling and smiles per mile into account as well
Does always seem to be the E30 though
I'd like to see a comparison of the E30 Evo and E46 CSL. I haven't driven either, but I think the CSL would be more to my liking.They're journos so I guess they're taking things like steering feel, feedback, handling and smiles per mile into account as well
Does always seem to be the E30 though
blade7 said:
s m said:
In that case they'd always pick the newest M3 though
They're journos so I guess they're taking things like steering feel, feedback, handling and smiles per mile into account as well
Does always seem to be the E30 though
I'd like to see a comparison of the E30 Evo and E46 CSL. I haven't driven either, but I think the CSL would be more to my liking.They're journos so I guess they're taking things like steering feel, feedback, handling and smiles per mile into account as well
Does always seem to be the E30 though
Taste and fancy at the end of the day though
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