BMW E46 M3, what is it to you, iconic, overrated, epic etc.?
Discussion
NickXX said:
I think the torque commons are a little exaggerated unless you're used to a big v8.
It has 300Nm (over 80% of peak torque) from 2,500rpm to 7,500rpm.
If you're going to use the M3 just for commuter drudgery and pottering about our dull home counties along with every other sucker then it will feel more ordinary, not bad, just more normal. I can't stress enough, if you enjoy driving fast and are relaxed about breaking NSL then drive it like the wind and it becomes a very enjoyable and accomplished machine. I've had some glorious drives through the quieter parts of the UK and the autobahns and amazing roads in the Alps with wife and luggage on board.
Have to agree with the all rounder comments above.
I had one for 6 months or so - never have I hated a car so much. For me, it had some great elements -
-Engine was cracking in breadth of performance terms - not sure what those complaining of lack of torque are comparing to, but it still goes well at low rpm and builds as the revs do.
- Fantastic diff - loads of traction but very controllable power oversteer (not just diff I know, but it was good)
Most other elements were also decent - ride not too bad, looks good, reasonably practical, quiet enough for cruising. If you could only have one car, it ticks many boxes.
So why did I loathe it? In spite of the above, it was totally boring unless you were pushing it, by which time you were going silly speeds, so the opportunity to enjoy was few and far between and you spend most of the time braking for the next hazard. It didn't have 'flow' for a british B road and it was a recalcitrant fecker when it's cold (gearbox and mapping), which at first feels 'special', but quickly became annoying. The seats had terrible lateral support (upper body is unsupported). And while I'm moaning, the HK stereo was s
te.
I imagine there must be a sweet spot for the car (maybe open A roads in Scotland or the autobahn) and i felt the balance of the car would be good on track (but then what's the point in trashing hundreds of pounds' worth of tyres and brakes at every track day?).
I replaced it with a 406 Hdi estate (as part of a general car shuffle around - the purpose being different), which (don't laugh), I loved as much as I hated the m3. It flowed magically down a b road and just worked without annoying vices.
So in summary (for me as I accept there's many people who love them), a car that's less than the sum of its parts. It may be reasonable as an all rounder if you can only have one car, but I didn't find it did anything really well on a day to day basis.
Just my humble opinion and before its questioned, it was in very good condition, full BM history, 18s with new Michelins etc.
I had one for 6 months or so - never have I hated a car so much. For me, it had some great elements -
-Engine was cracking in breadth of performance terms - not sure what those complaining of lack of torque are comparing to, but it still goes well at low rpm and builds as the revs do.
- Fantastic diff - loads of traction but very controllable power oversteer (not just diff I know, but it was good)
Most other elements were also decent - ride not too bad, looks good, reasonably practical, quiet enough for cruising. If you could only have one car, it ticks many boxes.
So why did I loathe it? In spite of the above, it was totally boring unless you were pushing it, by which time you were going silly speeds, so the opportunity to enjoy was few and far between and you spend most of the time braking for the next hazard. It didn't have 'flow' for a british B road and it was a recalcitrant fecker when it's cold (gearbox and mapping), which at first feels 'special', but quickly became annoying. The seats had terrible lateral support (upper body is unsupported). And while I'm moaning, the HK stereo was s
te.I imagine there must be a sweet spot for the car (maybe open A roads in Scotland or the autobahn) and i felt the balance of the car would be good on track (but then what's the point in trashing hundreds of pounds' worth of tyres and brakes at every track day?).
I replaced it with a 406 Hdi estate (as part of a general car shuffle around - the purpose being different), which (don't laugh), I loved as much as I hated the m3. It flowed magically down a b road and just worked without annoying vices.
So in summary (for me as I accept there's many people who love them), a car that's less than the sum of its parts. It may be reasonable as an all rounder if you can only have one car, but I didn't find it did anything really well on a day to day basis.
Just my humble opinion and before its questioned, it was in very good condition, full BM history, 18s with new Michelins etc.
martin mrt said:
One thing that particularly pissed me off about the E46, was it's cold start jerkiness, both mine were the same. 1st thing in the morning they were awful until a bit if temperature got into them
It's definitely not the smoothest thing when cold, Martin. It's the DME warm up strategy which utilises a secondary air pump to inject air into the exhaust manifold in order to get the cats up to temperature more quickly. For me it adds to the character of such a highly tuned N/A engine, but the DME is now more understood and if desired the sequence is easily coded out so the SAP can be removed.
I loved mine. It is the best car I have owned. Mine was a d/d and did weekend duties too. It was perfect for both imo. I only sold it due to a change in financial circumstances which meant it had to go.
I'd have no hesitation getting another one, as soon as I can afford to run one again
I'd have no hesitation getting another one, as soon as I can afford to run one again
NickXX said:
I think the torque commons are a little exaggerated unless you're used to a big v8.
It has 300Nm (over 80% of peak torque) from 2,500rpm to 7,500rpm.
This defence always used to pop up when I criticised my E92 M3 for not having much low down pull as well and in the real world if you stick your foot down at 2,500rpm I promise you not much happens in either the E46/E92 M3 but you cant have an engine that is epic at 6k revs plus and have low down pull as well as its just never going to happen. It has 300Nm (over 80% of peak torque) from 2,500rpm to 7,500rpm.
Had my 2002 SMG almost 2 years, it's got more and more enjoyable the more time I've spent with it. Especially as it cost a few quid 2 months after buying it having the boot floor repaired and strengthened.
It certainly does polarise opinion, and I have a few friends who are used to ~400bhp turbo Japanese coupes who just don't get it, even after driving it on track. I love it however, I had an E36 Evo for 3 years before it and the E46 is definitely the better drivers car.
I've done a Euro trip inlcluding Paris and the 'ring as well as Snetterton plus Knockhill a few times this year, plus various trips through the Scottish wilderness - it's these sorts of combined trips where the car really shines I reckon. Mine has a silly loud exhaust, coilovers and big brakes but full standard seats and interior with HK and Nav, so it's no stripped out track weapon. It is however a great deal of fun around a track as well as on B-roads, and perfectly comfy and accomodating to spend hours crossing the continent in.
I haven't been running the stickiest of rubber of late on track, and it actually makes the experience better IMO. It still has bags of grip even on cheaper tyres, but really moves around a whole lot more when pressing on through faster corners, you really feel like you're manhanding it around and it responds so well to all your inputs.
SMG polarises opinion even more, but I was surprised by how much I like it after learning to use it properly. I find it helps the driving experience (especially twistier B-roads) as you're less likely to leave it 3rd for example through a sequence of bends, instead using all the rev range in all the gears and keeping it lit. Which as we know, is where the S54 is best...
One thing I'd recommend is some sort of aftermarket exhaust - the soundtrack makes the car feel so much more alive and adds a bit of drama to the experience. The rasp is another part that polarises opinion - mine is raspy as hell but I wouldn't have it any other way
While it definitely isn't to everyone's tastes, I still love the looks of it too. Even after nearly 2 years, I still find myself doing that new car thing of wandering to the window just to have a look at it. But then I'm a loser
It certainly does polarise opinion, and I have a few friends who are used to ~400bhp turbo Japanese coupes who just don't get it, even after driving it on track. I love it however, I had an E36 Evo for 3 years before it and the E46 is definitely the better drivers car.
I've done a Euro trip inlcluding Paris and the 'ring as well as Snetterton plus Knockhill a few times this year, plus various trips through the Scottish wilderness - it's these sorts of combined trips where the car really shines I reckon. Mine has a silly loud exhaust, coilovers and big brakes but full standard seats and interior with HK and Nav, so it's no stripped out track weapon. It is however a great deal of fun around a track as well as on B-roads, and perfectly comfy and accomodating to spend hours crossing the continent in.
I haven't been running the stickiest of rubber of late on track, and it actually makes the experience better IMO. It still has bags of grip even on cheaper tyres, but really moves around a whole lot more when pressing on through faster corners, you really feel like you're manhanding it around and it responds so well to all your inputs.
SMG polarises opinion even more, but I was surprised by how much I like it after learning to use it properly. I find it helps the driving experience (especially twistier B-roads) as you're less likely to leave it 3rd for example through a sequence of bends, instead using all the rev range in all the gears and keeping it lit. Which as we know, is where the S54 is best...
One thing I'd recommend is some sort of aftermarket exhaust - the soundtrack makes the car feel so much more alive and adds a bit of drama to the experience. The rasp is another part that polarises opinion - mine is raspy as hell but I wouldn't have it any other way
While it definitely isn't to everyone's tastes, I still love the looks of it too. Even after nearly 2 years, I still find myself doing that new car thing of wandering to the window just to have a look at it. But then I'm a loser
Here is mine. It is the best car I have ever owned. Its 10 years old and makes all the stress at work go away when I turn the key and head home.
Silver Grey, Imola red interior and the most important part Manual gearbox.
New BMWs and other cars do nothing for me. Only mods I have done is an after market exhaust, eibachs and internal cup holders. Just buy one, but spend more than average for a decent one and it will reward you in spades.
Silver Grey, Imola red interior and the most important part Manual gearbox.
New BMWs and other cars do nothing for me. Only mods I have done is an after market exhaust, eibachs and internal cup holders. Just buy one, but spend more than average for a decent one and it will reward you in spades.
Edited by HannsG on Saturday 13th September 16:14
Fastdruid said:
That is quite gutless low down when you consider my petrol Mondeo has 320Nm from ~1500rpm... (It's no comparison otherwise, even in the engine department as it only holds that to 4800rpm but it would be a different story if it held it to 7500rpm! )
Since when has 220-ish lb ft of torque been "quite gutless"? In any case, you can't fairly compare a high revving naturally aspirated engine to a turbocharged unit, especially when the turbo unit will run out of puff just as the BMW gets into its stride.On topic, while the E46 M3 does suffer somewhat from an image problem, it remains a car I'd very much like to own. Saldy, I've sunk over four grand on maintenance into the GTA in the last year, so really need to hold onto that a bit longer to make sure I get my moneys worth from it!
Edited by SimianWonder on Saturday 13th September 16:31
The car is 'over-geared' as standard with its 3.64:1 final drive ratio, for what reason I don't know, but it'll never reach the theoretical 215ish in 6th on 19" wheels! I've swapped to a BMW Motorsport 3.91:1 CWP and the car now feels alive at the lower end of the rev range, and still has a more than respectable theoretical 185mph vmax capability on 19's.
More http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... if you are interested.
More http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... if you are interested.
Universally acclaimed at launch nearly 14 years ago.
Nothing came close to it.
I think it will naturally be overrated when compared to newer cars because things have moved on chassis and engine wise.
Compared to anything of similar age & price it it certainly still everything people raved about.
I'd still love to own one, silver grey manual like the one earlier posted.
Nothing came close to it.
I think it will naturally be overrated when compared to newer cars because things have moved on chassis and engine wise.
Compared to anything of similar age & price it it certainly still everything people raved about.
I'd still love to own one, silver grey manual like the one earlier posted.
HannsG said:
Here is mine. It is the best car I have ever owned. Its 10 years old and makes all the stress at work go away when I turn the key and head home.
Silver Grey, Imola red interior and the most important part Manual gearbox.
New BMWs and other cars do nothing for me. Only mods I have done is an after market exhaust, eibachs and internal cup holders. Just buy one, but spend more than average for a decent one and it will reward you in spades.
Best colour combo. Most in this spec seem to be smgs too, so a good find.Silver Grey, Imola red interior and the most important part Manual gearbox.
New BMWs and other cars do nothing for me. Only mods I have done is an after market exhaust, eibachs and internal cup holders. Just buy one, but spend more than average for a decent one and it will reward you in spades.
Edited by HannsG on Saturday 13th September 16:14
Think i actually prefer it to black.
jonah35 said:
Urban Sports said:
jonah35 said:
No torque, slow at low revs.
That's not really true though is it?Evolve can solve this problem for you.
No such thing as bad weather….just the wrong clothes.
Mine is a manual and the gearbox was a bit cumbersome at first. I stuck some Royal Purple in there though and it transformed the gearchange (some owners speak badly of it, but I have no complaints).
The cold start thing; sometimes it gets on my nerves and other times I quite like the character of it. These cars do have to be revved, yes, and they are very tyre sensitive, but on the right road at the right time of day, I can't think of much else for the money.
Sorry for the cliches, but I am a bit of a fanboi!
The cold start thing; sometimes it gets on my nerves and other times I quite like the character of it. These cars do have to be revved, yes, and they are very tyre sensitive, but on the right road at the right time of day, I can't think of much else for the money.
Sorry for the cliches, but I am a bit of a fanboi!
For me they are a legend, from remembering when they came out and the performance figures. BUT I haven't driven one. Or been in one. Well, I have a been in a cabriolet on a track with an inexperienced driver and it did not impress, but I hardly think I should let it be judged by that.
If I need a cheap runabout with some speed one day I'll be trying one.
I do get put off by the fan-boy scene, you know those who write "///M", and things like that. I shouldn't, but I do.
If I need a cheap runabout with some speed one day I'll be trying one.
I do get put off by the fan-boy scene, you know those who write "///M", and things like that. I shouldn't, but I do.
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