The best BMW M car?

The best BMW M car?

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Discussion

Welshbeef

37,542 posts

143 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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Equinox said:
I want to convert mine to manual too...and may fit normal m3 seats to make it nice..
Why not buy a base spec E46 M3 - I doubt you'd notice drastic differences between them on the track unless you went down the route of lap times.

I've a feeling the E46 M3 will be solar to the E30 M3 (maybe in 20+ years time) being regarded as such a superb but as by then the E30 M3 will be so valuable no one would be driving then as they were designed to be

EtcEtc

20,566 posts

117 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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MajorBeef said:
I know what you mean. It looks like a brick but has a certain something!

I never actually found out if the 1st gear thing was actually true or a myth.
It's true. Derestricted mine.

Shaoxter

3,374 posts

69 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
EtcEtc said:
MajorBeef said:
I know what you mean. It looks like a brick but has a certain something!

I never actually found out if the 1st gear thing was actually true or a myth.
It's true. Derestricted mine.
Info pls!

0836whimper

970 posts

143 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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Equinox said:
I want to convert mine to manual too...and may fit normal m3 seats to make it nice..
That's actually quite a good idea. I might do that, but maybe also add some sound deadening, swap out the fragile and expensive carbon fibre parts and soften the suspension to make it more usable every day.

EtcEtc

20,566 posts

117 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
Shaoxter said:
EtcEtc said:
MajorBeef said:
I know what you mean. It looks like a brick but has a certain something!

I never actually found out if the 1st gear thing was actually true or a myth.
It's true. Derestricted mine.
Info pls!
On the e36 evo, manual 6 speed only.

On the same side as reversing light switch, but higher up is a limiter, sometimes called the nanny switch. Ton of google info on them, helps if you have an uprated braided clutch line.

Some reckon it relearns the limiter setting, but a quick dme reset gets round it. Mine's full power in 1st and 2nd now, big difference.

gizlaroc

12,765 posts

169 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
0836whimper said:
That's actually quite a good idea. I might do that, but maybe also add some sound deadening, swap out the fragile and expensive carbon fibre parts and soften the suspension to make it more usable every day.
biggrin

clap

darreni

2,431 posts

215 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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0836whimper said:
That's actually quite a good idea. I might do that, but maybe also add some sound deadening, swap out the fragile and expensive carbon fibre parts and soften the suspension to make it more usable every day.
With all their experience, you'd have thought BMW might have done that themselves.
A missed opportunity there IMO.

gizlaroc

12,765 posts

169 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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darreni said:
With all their experience, you'd have thought BMW might have done that themselves.
A missed opportunity there IMO.
They could of called it something like......M3?? biggrin

E24man

3,287 posts

124 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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Probably not the best dynamically but perhaps the M635CSi is in with a shout as best looking 'M' car?

ZX10R NIN

15,082 posts

70 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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gizlaroc said:
shim said:
spoilt by a rubbish SMG is what i meant, why everybiody doesnt convert them to manual is beyond me. I mean on the road its nearly undrivable and on track you cant beat the feel of a gearstick in your hand (says Yanto)
On the road it is butter smooth and nice an easy even in traffic, and on a track in S6 it is still quicker than I can change manually.


I should add that I had thought I had made a mistake when I got an SMG car, but after a week I suddenly got it.
CSL
E39 M5
E92 M3 GTS

Fidgits

17,195 posts

174 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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I'd have to say e46 cs with a manual box..

stevesingo

3,622 posts

167 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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0836whimper said:
stevesingo said:
CSL : Horrid seats.
Wow - the seats are probably my favourite part !
They fit me perfectly, but can see why a much larger person would find them uncomfortable
The width is not the problem for me (nice try for the fat insult). The seats are far too upright with insufficient lumbar support.

RE Seats: Being sporty looking and racy looking does not make seats good.

darreni

2,431 posts

215 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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stevesingo said:
The width is not the problem for me (nice try for the fat insult). The seats are far too upright with insufficient lumbar support.

RE Seats: Being sporty looking and racy looking does not make seats good.
Have you tried adjusting them? It's a ball ache to take the seat out & adjust the tilt settings & refit ( and repeat until happy )
But it's worth it.
For the lumbar support, I use one of these;
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/seat-acc...

It fits under the seat cushion, so looks standard.

stevesingo

3,622 posts

167 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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gizlaroc said:
stevesingo said:
I've driven the following...

E92 and E93 M3 DSG
E46 M3 SMG
CSL
E9 Proper CSL
E30 M3 Sport Evo

What an M Car should be for me..

Lighter than the average
Responsive engine
Responsive balanced handling
Good steering feel
Motorsport Pedigree preferred.

E9* M3- are just too heavy. The mass can never really be forgotten about and this saps agility. Good engine though

E46-good but SMG spoilt the car I drove.

CSL- Better body control and sharper overall, but SMG is really st. Nice noise. Horrid seats. Once you get pat the image, are they really 2x as good as a standard E46 as new or 4x better now. No. With a manual 'box-Yes

E9- It wasn't stock, so although the engine was good, it was supercharged! From an era where pliant suspension was the order of the day. Nice steering and I like the way it moves around in the corners.

E30 M3 SE-Ticks most boxes. Could be quicker in this day and age, and the brakes don't stand up to hard use too well. Handling balance is great, choose your cornering attitude providing you don't want 70+mph power oversteer. Not 4x the worth of a stock late 215hp model.

I'd like a go of a E28, E34 and E39 M5s. E6* M5/M6 I'm sure have great engines ruined by SMG and probably too heavy, although weigh can be forgiven in something larger to an extent. The F* Ms; M for marketing and no different to a M135i et al IMO.
Sounds like you haven't 'lived' with any??

Some of the negatives you put are what make these cars so special to live with imho.
The negatives I put are..

E9* M3 Too heavy- I can't see how living with that would make it special.

E46 M3 SMG- Poor gearbox. I believe the consensus is is that day to day the SMG is less than special.

E46 CSL- As above, although when viewed in the context of intended us, the G.Box is less of an issue, but still not delivering more driver satisfaction than a manual. Seats, again in the context of a track car seem OK, but for any longer than an hour, I'd rather not.


0836whimper

970 posts

143 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
stevesingo said:
0836whimper said:
stevesingo said:
CSL : Horrid seats.
Wow - the seats are probably my favourite part !
They fit me perfectly, but can see why a much larger person would find them uncomfortable
The width is not the problem for me (nice try for the fat insult). The seats are far too upright with insufficient lumbar support.

RE Seats: Being sporty looking and racy looking does not make seats good.
I really didn't try any fat insults...

Anyway, I think they are great functionally, they are meant to be upright and make the focus on driving.

They hug you nicely and you don't slip or slide on them, the driving position they create is fantastic and they still tilt to allow rear passenger access.
I've also driven across Europe in them and found them like for like more comfortable than the M3's armchairs.

Each to their own though. But as mentioned, you can adjust them for both tilt (frame) and lumbar (there's a removable velcro part).

Leins

6,799 posts

93 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
^^^ As above, I find them the most comfortable seats I've ever had in a car, even for long distance driving (and I've previously owned a Saab 900)

In saying that, they could have spikes installed in them and I'd still love my CSL

Edited by Leins on Sunday 23 November 23:08

bennyboysvuk

3,485 posts

193 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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cerb4.5lee said:
I personally really like the look of the E36 but I can understand why many dismiss it but I have owned a E92 M3 and driven the E36/E46 M3 many times and the E36 is easily my favourite. biggrin
The E36 M3 was one of my dream cars in the mid-90s when I passed my test and could only dream of affording and insuring such a car. Then in the mid-2000s it became reality in a 1994 3.0 M3. It cost me £1,000 in drivetrain repairs in the first few months of ownership, but I still loved the car, even though on the road my mate's Clio Trophy could keep up with it on B-roads until going *quite* fast.

I drove another friend's slightly modded Evo (suspension, brakes and a few engine mods) on track and it was superb and absolutely lent itself to power-slides soooo readily. His was my mid-90s dream car in Estoril blue with black leather.

All that said, I think my E46 was even better, although I never drove them back to back.

Fidgits

17,195 posts

174 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
stevesingo said:
The negatives I put are..

E9* M3 Too heavy- I can't see how living with that would make it special.

E46 M3 SMG- Poor gearbox. I believe the consensus is is that day to day the SMG is less than special.

E46 CSL- As above, although when viewed in the context of intended us, the G.Box is less of an issue, but still not delivering more driver satisfaction than a manual. Seats, again in the context of a track car seem OK, but for any longer than an hour, I'd rather not.
I've lived with a E92 M3 (manual) for 18 months, trust me when i say it still feels special everytime you put your foot down. (and i've had various M cars, a Ferrari 360, 911, elise etc so think i have a reasonable gauge).

It really doesn't feel heavy to live with, when you are on it, its lithe and agile, and that engine.. oh god that engine...

On a recent trip to the alps, on the tight stuff it was even with a Z4M (which i've also had), the moment the roads open up the extra power and stability meant it pulled away...

i've never driven a E30, so cant compare, and as i said above, for me the E46 CS is the best M car, i loved the CSL, but i think the best M car would be one you could use everyday with no comprimises... which i think the CS does a lot better, and i do prefer the manual shift... even over the E92 DSG..

daz05

2,747 posts

140 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Fidgits said:
It really doesn't feel heavy to live with, when you are on it, its lithe and agile, and that engine
Yep agree, it feels much lighter the faster it goes, takes a bit of time to realise that though which puts some off.

I would love to try a GTS.





ClarkyboyS

340 posts

136 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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daz05 said:
Fidgits said:
It really doesn't feel heavy to live with, when you are on it, its lithe and agile, and that engine
Yep agree, it feels much lighter the faster it goes, takes a bit of time to realise that though which puts some off.

I would love to try a GTS.

I can add to the lightness...

At 186 it feels REALLY light as it hits the limiter in 6th

and i mean REALLY light!

Quite scary ;-)

my passenger in the rear recons the back of the car was lifting from 160 onwards.