e92 m3...best car ever?

[popeyewhite]

daz05 said:

Stop digging Slippy, the s65 feels less torquey than the gt3 lower down because it's installed in a heavier vehicle. End of discussion.

Might also be because the torque curve is different, and also the gearing, and also the power at the wheels.

[bigtime]

I know Bennyby, then we'll have everyone on here reminiscing how old cars had much more character, were NA, with linear power delivery and sounded better .

[dadofbud]

bigtime said:

I know Bennyby, then we'll have everyone on here reminiscing how old cars had much more character, were NA, with linear power delivery and sounded better .

Possibly the vast majority of people who attend Silverstone Classic and the Revival would subscribe this view

[jayemm89]

I often wondered what would have happened if you put the S65 in the Z4 M Coupe... but I don't know if the V8 would have physically fit in the bay and I wonder if that's why they used it? The E46 M3 was already out of production by then I believe

[e21Mark]

bigtime said:

I know Bennyby, then we'll have everyone on here reminiscing how old cars had much more character, were NA, with linear power delivery and sounded better .

All of which is true.

[joema]

jayemm89 said:

I often wondered what would have happened if you put the S65 in the Z4 M Coupe... but I don't know if the V8 would have physically fit in the bay and I wonder if that's why they used it? The E46 M3 was already out of production by then I believe

The Z4 GT3? M5 E39 V8 admittedly but it's in the newer z4 but the shoe horns do exist!

[Tony B2]

Wills2 said:

You know when you've made something well when the trolls pop in to try and trash it.....

Absolutely!

And I just do not get this lack of torque bowlox. From 3000 rpm upwards mine feels plenty strong enough. I remember an extended bit of "formation" driving in company with a TVR Griffith 500 a few years ago, and he was definitely trying hard, whereas I never had to exceed 5000 rpm to match or gain on him.

And I have direct comparison with a plenty of torque car (330D) and whilst that feels effortless it never feels quicker than my M3 above 3k.

And anyone who complains about having to rev the S65, with its utterly butterly unstressed smoothness, and fabulous soundtrack and bonkers 7 to 8.3k thrust....well.....meh....

[bennyboysvuk]

bigtime said:

I know Bennyby, then we'll have everyone on here reminiscing how old cars had much more character, were NA, with linear power delivery and sounded better .

I recall Chris Harris reviewing the Ferrari LaFerrari recently and saying that the best compliment was that it felt like an old racing car (enough power to overwhelm grip anywhere), but with much bigger numbers on the dash.

Old racing cars FTW. I'm off to find an E9 3.0 CSL for my commute.

[rb5er]

Tony B2 said:

Absolutely!

And I just do not get this lack of torque bowlox. From 3000 rpm upwards mine feels plenty strong enough.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1467654-Why-is-M3-engine-so-low-on-torque

Its talked about quite a bit so obviously an issue for some. Even my 260bhp impreza has a far bit more torque.

Edited by rb5er on Thursday 21st January 09:33

[bennyboysvuk]

rb5er said:

Tony B2 said:

Absolutely!

And I just do not get this lack of torque bowlox. From 3000 rpm upwards mine feels plenty strong enough.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1467654-Why-is-M3-engine-so-low-on-torque

Its talked about quite a bit so obviously an issue for some. Even my 260bhp impreza has a far bit more torque.

I know it's a lighter car, but when compared to an ancient 4 litre V8 as installed in the TVR Chimaera, the engine only produces 240hp and 270 lb ft. I think the BMWs 295lb ft and 414 bhp are pretty good by comparison, plus the Chimaera lump feels rather flat to drive with no revvy crescendo.

[rb5er]

bennyboysvuk said:

compared to an ancient 4 litre V8 as installed in the TVR Chimaera, the engine only produces 270 lb ft. I think the BMWs 295lb ft are pretty good.

Hmm. The BMW has not very good statistics torque wise when you compare it to such an "ancient" engine.

[e21Mark]

I must admit, I really don't get why you wouldn't want to be able to rev a V8 like the e92's? It's like a V8 s14 and thrives on being spanked. The E39's V8 is more like the lazy, high torque engine to me and one of the reasons I wouldn't want an E39 M5. I'm sure it's a great car but to me low revving (by comparison), big torque motors aren't what M3 are about. Especially when it just takes a couple of finger twitches and you've dropped 2 cogs!

[cerb4.5lee]

e21Mark said:

I must admit, I really don't get why you wouldn't want to be able to rev a V8 like the e92's? It's like a V8 s14 and thrives on being spanked. The E39's V8 is more like the lazy, high torque engine to me and one of the reasons I wouldn't want an E39 M5. I'm sure it's a great car but to me low revving (by comparison), big torque motors aren't what M3 are about. Especially when it just takes a couple of finger twitches and you've dropped 2 cogs!

I am the other way and I much preferred the N62 engine in my 4.8 X5 to the S65 in the M3 but I do get what you are saying that a high rev motor is more in keeping with the M3 ethos.

I even preferred the noise of the N62 to the S65 too, although as I have stated I just personally prefer a more torque filled engine and like the V8 M3 I wouldn't enjoy a Honda VTEC engine either and having all the urge on the top end just doesn't float my boat but plenty do like it that way though for sure.

[bennyboysvuk]

rb5er said:

bennyboysvuk said:

compared to an ancient 4 litre V8 as installed in the TVR Chimaera, the engine only produces 270 lb ft. I think the BMWs 295lb ft are pretty good.

Hmm. The BMW has not very good statistics torque wise when you compare it to such an "ancient" engine.

True, but they did pretty well with the bhp.

[jayemm89]

On the motorway I really liked the easy torque of my 645 - on back roads and having fun, the higher revving "M" motors really do it for me.

All this talk of torque got me thinking. I did some research and the old 2.4L V8 F1 engines reportedly only had about 180 lb-ft of torque.

Interestingly, the S54 motor of E46 M3 fame is actually pretty torquey given the capacity - it's about 270 lb-ft from a 3.2, compared to the 295 of the 4.0 S65. The S54 is actually under-square, mad for such a high-revving engine. Forced on them I think by the fact they'd bored it out all they could. Resulted in a very high piston speed.

Of course, really.... the main reason to own a V8 and that to me is one area where the STOCK E92 M3 is unforgiveably quiet.

[cerb4.5lee]

jayemm89 said:

Of course, really.... the main reason to own a V8 and that to me is one area where the STOCK E92 M3 is unforgiveably quiet.

I agree but you could level the same criticism at pretty much all of BMW`s petrol engines though...its a shame really because BMW are experts and keeping their petrol engines as quiet as a mouse yet they seem happy for their diesel engines to be vocal and noisy though and it should be the other way around.

[dvshannow]

Its a very easy mod though have the mpe which is v tuneful and has an exotic note when at 6k+ and no motorway drone when not...but its not that loud when at low revs so aint gonna get much attention around town

[SBN]

I actually really liked my m3 e90

However a 335i touring is a much better everyday car but I still miss my m3

[jayemm89]

Yes true Lee, although the newer M3/M4 seem quite loud when I've heard them. Either every one has had an aftermarket exhaust on (possible) or BMW have decided to counteract criticisms of turbos killing the noise by just making them loud.

[cerb4.5lee]

jayemm89 said:

Yes true Lee, although the newer M3/M4 seem quite loud when I've heard them. Either every one has had an aftermarket exhaust on (possible) or BMW have decided to counteract criticisms of turbos killing the noise by just making them loud.

The more I seem to see of the M4 the more I seem to really want one, as you say modding or swapping the exhaust on BMW's nowadays seems more popular than ever, although I have always been surprised by how much the MPE costs but everyone seems to rate it very highly.

I will never forget the first time I test drove the E92 M3 back in 2008 and I said to the salesman that I couldn't believe how whisper quiet the exhaust was at idle for a V8 but I suppose the punters that purchased them didn't really want a noisy exhaust as you associate the M3 in that guise as more of a cruiser.

I have always preferred a V8 engine to at least show some intent but appreciate I was spoilt by my TVR.