M2 or M3 Coupe

[number 46]

Can't decide whether to get an M2 or the V8 M3 coupe. Thought that I would seek the views of PH owners of either or even both!! Previously had E46 and E90 330i coupes, both of which I liked. Always fancied an M and would consider the DCT. Had a short test drive in an M2 DCT today and was impressed, not as small as I had imagined and the DCT is very easy to use. It was fast but somehow seemed a little less involved compared to a manual car. Hope to test a DCT M3 next week to compare. I'm only interested in comp. pack M3, either manual or DCT. Would be interested in M2 owners views on DCT v manual.

[Steve Rance]

I wanted a daily driver that would give me a practical and pure driving experience. I thought hard about the V8 M3 and tried both but went for the M2 as for me it was the purer drive - which surprised me. The engine of the M3 has more character and is better higher up its Rev range than the M2 but the M2 unit gives much more torque lower down its rev range which makes it more practical as a DD but of the 2 units the V8 is the peach. What swung it for me was the M2 chassis which is as closer to the analogue experience that I wanted. If you are not looking primarily for engagement from the chassis, you may prefer the M3

Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 30th December 22:51

[Alpinestars]

The steering on the M3 is miles ahead of the EPAS of the M2. As is the suspension (way too busy on the M2).

[number 46]

Thanks for the replies. I need to try the M3 DCT and a manual M2 I think, as the Dct M2 whilst fast was somehow too good and easy to drive, just sit there foot to the floor and press the paddles!!! Steve, is your M2 an manual or DCT?

[Steve Rance]

Manual. Alpine stars makes a valid point but despite the electric steering I still much preferred the chassis of the M2.

[Smuler]

Both these cars are on my shortlist should I need to / want to replace my E46 M3.
I’ve driven several M3s manual and DCT tho no CP or DCT examples.
It’s brilliant.

What could persuade to a M2?

Easier to get a manual (not enough of a reason though note that if you want a CP manual they are very rare)

Size (I do prefer a size similar to E46 but feel the E92 M3 isn’t too big and it does feel like it wraps around you and feels smaller than the 335i I had)

Efficiency (not essential as I have another option as a daily)

Better low down grunt ( it’s a plus but I had that with 335i and now in a M3 I prefer throttle response if N/A)

Better chassis / more fun ? (This at present is only assumed as I’ve not driven one but I know the E92 is still fun and I’m not sure as I don’t track whether I’ll be able to exploit any extra advantage)

And that’s why the M3 is the fave.
I love the sound of the V8 ; prefer the old style steering , prefer the looks , it has the best seats ever where a concern with M2 is it has similar seats (more bolstered I believe) to 1 / 2 Series which I had issues with.

[ST66N]

I test drive a DCT M2 and bought a manual. The manual adds another level of involvement. The engine has a lot of torque low down and it is fun managing that. It's also the first car I've had where the driving modes have really added to the enjoyment of the car.

[number 46]

Cheers chaps! really helpful. I'll report back when I have driven the DCT M3, hopefully later this week. Will also try a manual M2 too.

[nbetts]

Steve Rance said:

I wanted a daily driver that would give me a practical and pure driving experience. I thought hard about the V8 M3 and tried both but went for the M2 as for me it was the purer drive - which surprised me. The engine of the M3 has more character and is better higher up its Rev range than the M2 but the M2 unit gives much more torque lower down its rev range which makes it more practical as a DD but of the 2 units the V8 is the peach. What swung it for me was the M2 chassis which is as closer to the analogue experience that I wanted. If you are not looking primarily for engagement from the chassis, you may prefer the M3

Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 30th December 22:51

Steve, when shortlisting did you consider the F80 M3 also? Or do you have good reason to avoid this vehicle?

Thanks

[Steve Rance]

I wanted a passive car that provided as purer driving exprience as possible. The electro mechanical diff of the current M cars is a very good unit and will help settle the car during entry and exit of the corner. That allows a driver to rotate the car more subtely either on a trail on the way in or on the throttle on exit. The combination of that diff and a passive suspension set up really appeals to me. Its the only modern practical daily driver that I could find that offers that kind of driving experience. I'll drive the car with the driving aids turned off. The M3 and M4 are not cars that realistically allow a driver to do that. They have been designed to deploy more power and provide a more controlled driving experience to the driver via the active electrical and damping systems. I can understand the attraction of that kind of car but it wasnt what I wanted. The electric steering doesnt bother me as much. Lots of racing cars have had electric steering for years. It's something that you can tune yourself into pretty easily.

The significance of the capability of the current M diff is something that I dont think has really picked up on. With a diff as good as that, if a chassis has a decent balance in it, you really dont need active systems elswhere.

[bennyboysvuk]

Before I bought an E92 M3, five things put me off of the M2 to some degree, which were:

Turbo and all the things I dislike about it (lag, noise on startup vs noise whilst driving, non-linear throttle).
Automatic rev matching in the manual version.
No M button on the steering wheel to quickly get DSC off.
Hazard warning lights that come on when you brake really hard.
Interior/seats were the same as the M135i I had at the time (how many M2s have adjustable lumbar support?).

[nbetts]

Steve Rance said:

I wanted a passive car that provided as purer driving exprience as possible. The electro mechanical diff of the current M cars is a very good unit and will help settle the car during entry and exit of the corner. That allows a driver to rotate the car more subtely either on a trail on the way in or on the throttle on exit. The combination of that diff and a passive suspension set up really appeals to me. Its the only modern practical daily driver that I could find that offers that kind of driving experience. I'll drive the car with the driving aids turned off. The M3 and M4 are not cars that realistically allow a driver to do that. They have been designed to deploy more power and provide a more controlled driving experience to the driver via the active electrical and damping systems. I can understand the attraction of that kind of car but it wasnt what I wanted. The electric steering doesnt bother me as much. Lots of racing cars have had electric steering for years. It's something that you can tune yourself into pretty easily.

The significance of the capability of the current M diff is something that I dont think has really picked up on. With a diff as good as that, if a chassis has a decent balance in it, you really dont need active systems elswhere.

Appreciate your feedback and detailed answer - Thanks Steve

[nw942]

Steve Rance said:

I wanted a passive car that provided as purer driving exprience as possible. The electro mechanical diff of the current M cars is a very good unit and will help settle the car during entry and exit of the corner. That allows a driver to rotate the car more subtely either on a trail on the way in or on the throttle on exit. The combination of that diff and a passive suspension set up really appeals to me. Its the only modern practical daily driver that I could find that offers that kind of driving experience. I'll drive the car with the driving aids turned off. The M3 and M4 are not cars that realistically allow a driver to do that. They have been designed to deploy more power and provide a more controlled driving experience to the driver via the active electrical and damping systems. I can understand the attraction of that kind of car but it wasnt what I wanted. The electric steering doesnt bother me as much. Lots of racing cars have had electric steering for years. It's something that you can tune yourself into pretty easily.

The significance of the capability of the current M diff is something that I dont think has really picked up on. With a diff as good as that, if a chassis has a decent balance in it, you really dont need active systems elswhere.

What other cars did you consider?

[kdempsie]

This is a really great quandary to have! I've had an M2 now for nearly a year and 12.5k miles. It replaced a V8 M3 in one of the late model Limited Editions. Some of my thoughts and comparisons might be interesting for you.

The M2 is manual and the M3 was DCT.

The engine in the M3 was really fabulous and it deserves all the plaudits it gets, it sounds great too. It does need worked harder to get the best from it, but a drive on a quiet early morning on interesting roads will stay with you for a while. The DCT matches the engine very well and I felt the whole car was specially honed and finely engineered. I do miss some of the little details like the oil temp gauge and the shift lights.

The size of the car never felt like an issue to me but the M2 does wrap around me a little better which was one of my key decisions in buying it.

Although I bought the M2 with manual gearbox it was more for a change than anything else (my wife tipped the balance by saying it was sportier!), if I were in the same position again I would take the DCT option.

Whilst the driving experience between DCT and manual is different II don't find the experience any less exciting or involving without the clutch.

If I made a recommendation I would say buy the M3. Since it has been out of production now for a few years good ones will become harder and harder to find and to live with the high revving V8 for a few years will be time well spent. Then if you still want an M2 you will be able to pick one up, possibly either brand new or very lightly used by which time really good V8 M3 CPs will be becoming expensive and more difficult to find.

Both cars are great and you will really enjoy either of them, so you can't really go wrong.

Keith.

PS: The rev match feature on the manual M2 is actually very good, I got used to it really quickly so I wouldn't let that put you off and M2 in manual if you end up going that route.

[Steve Rance]

nw942 said:

What other cars did you consider?

Anything modern with 4 seats basically. I travel a lot of miles. But my requirements were very specific.

[Timbuktu]

Steve Rance said:

I'll drive the car with the driving aids turned off. The M3 and M4 are not cars that realistically allow a driver to do that.

Sorry but that's not true at all. There is a lot on the internet about these cars being twitchy and undrivable but it's simply not true.

Of course you have to be careful and if you are only capable of mashing the accelerator then in the wrong situation you may well end up wrapping it round a tree but how many other cars are like that? - A lot!

The pre '65 plate cars were maybe a little twitchy but the LCI suspension revision really helped and then after that they limited the torque in the lower gears to help even more.

By looking at the TC light flashing away you would probably think "oh no, I'll definitely die if I turn it off" but that is simply not the case.

I'm not on some kind of mission to defend the F80's honour although I do have one. I've also had a E46 M3 and E92 M3 and yes the rear end will break away much more easily if you're not careful but you just have to adjust to it.

On another note I would love another E92 M3, they are awesome cars. I was seriously considering going back to one but really want a 4 door and they're getting very hard to find! Not driven an M2.

Edited by Timbuktu on Tuesday 2nd January 22:06

[AW10]

Timbuktu said:

Of course you have to be careful and if you are only capable of mashing the accelerator then in the wrong situation you may well end up wrapping it round a tree ...

I would offer that's a poor description of Steve's driving ability.

[Steve Rance]

Sorry, I may have explained myself badly. Any car can be driven at 10/10ths. I am not accusing these cars of being difficult. I’ve raced some very difficult cars successfully. My point is that they are not designed to be passive or analogue in the delivery of their performance. They are designed to work in conjunction with a layer of driving aids and offer their balance within that formula very well. In a race car, I want to drive the car that gives me the most effective chance of winning fairly. In a road car I want to simply have fun driving a car designed to interact with the driver as a primary source of input.

I fully accept that not everybody wants that from a road car. Absolutely fine with me.

[Timbuktu]

AW10 said:

I would offer that's a poor description of Steve's driving ability.

Why would you think I was referring to his driving ability.

Steve Rance said:

Sorry, I may have explained myself badly. Any car can be driven at 10/10ths. I am not accusing these cars of being difficult. I’ve raced some very difficult cars successfully. My point is that they are not designed to be passive or analogue in the delivery of their performance. They are designed to work in conjunction with a layer of driving aids and offer their balance within that formula very well. In a race car, I want to drive the car that gives me the most effective chance of winning fairly. In a road car I want to simply have fun driving a car designed to interact with the driver as a primary source of input.

I fully accept that not everybody wants that from a road car. Absolutely fine with me.

Ok, thanks for your reply.

It's just these cars get an awful lot of bad reviews on the internet with people saying how undrivable they are and I'm not usually bothered enough to reply but I felt the bit above I highlighted in bold was a statement that needed opposing as it only helps add to the consensus!

I still maintain that the F80 works just fine with the driver aids turned off though, driving at any number of 10ths.

Edited by Timbuktu on Tuesday 2nd January 22:52

[Steve Rance]

No problem. I don’t tend to be guided by the motoring press. I once completed in a 24 hour race which was also entered by a well know motoring journalist team. I think we lapped them 221 times.

A great leveller the race track.

These chaps have got a job to do and that’s fine but as you say, it doesn’t do to take much of what’s written too seriously. There are some very good driver journalists out there though

Edited by Steve Rance on Tuesday 2nd January 23:00