HELP determining WHEN M2 has been chipped/remapped/dme unit

[Chamon_Lee]

xjay1337 said:

JMBMWM5 said:

Unfortunately many of these "M" cars are being Remapped to silly numbers by P C B ers, who don't give a st about who gets it next.
They remove the maps and go back to STD when handing it in, the next poor guy gets the bill. Other forums I use M3Cutter in particular are full of cars that have been modified some way to much, I would never buy a secondhand "M car be it: M2/M3/M4/M5.

PCBers ?

PS loads of cars get remapped and generally the failure rate is not much higher.

Failure rate is not the point though. People know it’s wrong to do it yet continue to do it and then not declare it once selling the car to a main dealer or someone else!

[xjay1337]

Chamon_Lee said:

xjay1337 said:

JMBMWM5 said:

Unfortunately many of these "M" cars are being Remapped to silly numbers by P C B ers, who don't give a st about who gets it next.
They remove the maps and go back to STD when handing it in, the next poor guy gets the bill. Other forums I use M3Cutter in particular are full of cars that have been modified some way to much, I would never buy a secondhand "M car be it: M2/M3/M4/M5.

PCBers ?

PS loads of cars get remapped and generally the failure rate is not much higher.

Failure rate is not the point though. People know it’s wrong to do it yet continue to do it and then not declare it once selling the car to a main dealer or someone else!

Meh - that's life. Hardly the end of the world.

[JMBMWM5]

xjay1337 said:

Meh - that's life. Hardly the end of the world.

Tell you get landed with one that goes pop.

[Driver101]

JMBMWM5 said:

xjay1337 said:

Meh - that's life. Hardly the end of the world.

Tell you get landed with one that goes pop.

And we still wonder why so many people lack responsibility or decency.

[Thats What She Said]

Jon Man said:

Hi all,

What is IPNA? I tried googling it with little results.

You're probably having difficulty finding it because it's called INPA....not IPNA

As someone has already mentioned bcables.com sells the cable and software. See youtube for tutorials on how to use it.

Good luck,

[xjay1337]

Driver101 said:

JMBMWM5 said:

xjay1337 said:

Meh - that's life. Hardly the end of the world.

Tell you get landed with one that goes pop.

And we still wonder why so many people lack responsibility or decency.

Ah yes. Responsibility.


How about the responsibility of the dealer to do the correct checks prior to taking a car in on PX or for selling as an "approved used".

Nearly every one I know has remapped their car - including my 60 year old father's Jaguar Xe diesel. He loves how it drives now

For a few hundred quid you can make your car drive like it actually should and not tuned to the lowest common denominator.

[Butter Face]

xjay1337 said:

Nearly every one I know has remapped their car

You’re in a massive minority then.

If it’s a decent map, then it’s almost impossible for a dealer to know it’s been done unless the customer told them.

That being said, once it came to light it should have just been dealt with by the dealer.

[loskie]

start making a fuss on the dealer's facebook page and see if you get progress.

[Driver101]

xjay1337 said:

Ah yes. Responsibility.


How about the responsibility of the dealer to do the correct checks prior to taking a car in on PX or for selling as an "approved used".

Nearly every one I know has remapped their car - including my 60 year old father's Jaguar Xe diesel. He loves how it drives now

For a few hundred quid you can make your car drive like it actually should and not tuned to the lowest common denominator.

Sounds a very one sided argument that private customers can ignore the contract they've signed, but dealers have to take all responsibility.

During the time the customer has the car they still want their warranty honoured and try their best not to get caught. They still get upset if they are caught out.


In the real world I would suspect the amount of people that get their cars remapped is very small.

You have a M135i? Throwing extra power doesn't make that car drive like it should. It just further highlights the car's shortcomings.

[Max Maxasson]

Driver101 said:

Sounds a very one sided argument that private customers can ignore the contract they've signed, but dealers have to take all responsibility.
During the time the customer has the car they still want their warranty honoured and try their best not to get caught. They still get upset if they are caught out.
In the real world I would suspect the amount of people that get their cars remapped is very small.
You have a M135i? Throwing extra power doesn't make that car drive like it should. It just further highlights the car's shortcomings.

Its about time that BMW dealers checked every single BMW brought in for PX for evidence of drivetrain tuning so that these cars can be kept out of the dealer network.
Its weird that folk thinks its fine to slap on a couple of massive f**k off turbos, wind the boost up and then at sale time put it all back to standard so that some other poor sap gets to pay for any future problems.
They might as well put on a mileage blocker while they are at it...no problem as long as its taken off before sale!!

[Driver101]

Max Maxasson said:

Driver101 said:

Sounds a very one sided argument that private customers can ignore the contract they've signed, but dealers have to take all responsibility.
During the time the customer has the car they still want their warranty honoured and try their best not to get caught. They still get upset if they are caught out.
In the real world I would suspect the amount of people that get their cars remapped is very small.
You have a M135i? Throwing extra power doesn't make that car drive like it should. It just further highlights the car's shortcomings.

Its about time that BMW dealers checked every single BMW brought in for PX for evidence of drivetrain tuning so that these cars can be kept out of the dealer network.
Its weird that folk thinks its fine to slap on a couple of massive f**k off turbos, wind the boost up and then at sale time put it all back to standard so that some other poor sap gets to pay for any future problems.
They might as well put on a mileage blocker while they are at it...no problem as long as its taken off before sale!!

It isn't just cars heading to dealers that need checked. It should also be done at the end of a PCP.

I think it'll will start happening soon with more cars not worth the GFV at the end.

[xjay1337]

Driver101 said:

Sounds a very one sided argument that private customers can ignore the contract they've signed, but dealers have to take all responsibility.

During the time the customer has the car they still want their warranty honoured and try their best not to get caught. They still get upset if they are caught out.


In the real world I would suspect the amount of people that get their cars remapped is very small.

You have a M135i? Throwing extra power doesn't make that car drive like it should. It just further highlights the car's shortcomings.

It entirely depends on that contract.

If the previous owner purchased the car outright or with a personal loan then they can do what they want with it and are not under any obligations to tell the dealer what modifications may have been done to it when trading it in.
The responsibility would be on the dealer to do the necessary checks - they are the ones selling it as approved used!!!!

If it is under PCP or HP then you should not modify the car, but just like doing 85mph on the motorway, PEOPLE DO!
But many people just want some extra power when overtaking or going down slip roads so the "extra power highlights the cars short comings" is a stupid argument as most people aren't even aware of the short comings to begin with!


If you are taking a car in as trade as a main dealer and offering a warranty then it is 100% your responsibility to ensure you can honour that warranty otherwise THIS HAPPENS.
If you are trading in the car under a HP or PCP and you have remapped it then you should be charged extra for that.


I can guarantee the supplying dealer did no advanced checks on the ECU and only a quick scan along with their usual "130 point check" when the previous owner traded it in, and only when the car was connected up to the remote diagnostic system in Germany was the software tweak noticed.

In this case the engine has presumably not blown up and whatever problem is a weird sensor or electrical issue but the dealer is throwing the warranty invalidated card - that is wrong of the dealer as it is incredibly unlikely that a remap would cause subsequent failure of, for example, a MAF sensor

My M135i has a stock engine , funnily enough because I have a BMW warranty on it and I can't afford £3500 for a used engine replacement.
However the Bilstein suspension, upgraded brakes and limited slip differential certainly mean that when I am in a position to give it more power then it will be ready and I have no doubts in the ability for the engine to take the power as many N55 are running the usual power modifications to around 400hp with no major issues reported!

Butter Face said:

You’re in a massive minority then.

If it’s a decent map, then it’s almost impossible for a dealer to know it’s been done unless the customer told them.

That being said, once it came to light it should have just been dealt with by the dealer.

No that's not the case,
As I said nearly all ECU's now use checksums to verify the file integrity (IE oem map has a checksum of XXXYYYZZZ so if they see XXXYYYBBB then they know it's not an OEM map)

Some tools can clone these so at a glance it looks like a factory map

But there are other ways to tell, namely ECU requesting maximum torque requested which is impossible to hide as otherwise the tune wouldn't work properly!
Manufacturers are not stupid and anyone who knows what they are looking for can tell if it is mapped in about 30 seconds of pulling off the bin.

I would estimate maybe 5-10% of turbocharged petrol or diesel cars have some sort of remap even if it's just because they have a DPF removed due to clogging or because the owner wants more power.

Edited by xjay1337 on Monday 15th July 10:45

[Driver101]

xjay1337 said:

Driver101 said:

Sounds a very one sided argument that private customers can ignore the contract they've signed, but dealers have to take all responsibility.

During the time the customer has the car they still want their warranty honoured and try their best not to get caught. They still get upset if they are caught out.


In the real world I would suspect the amount of people that get their cars remapped is very small.

You have a M135i? Throwing extra power doesn't make that car drive like it should. It just further highlights the car's shortcomings.

It entirely depends on that contract.

If the previous owner purchased the car outright or with a personal loan then they can do what they want with it and are not under any obligations to tell the dealer what modifications may have been done to it when trading it in.
The responsibility would be on the dealer to do the necessary checks - they are the ones selling it as approved used!!!!

If it is under PCP or HP then you should not modify the car, but just like doing 85mph on the motorway, PEOPLE DO!
But many people just want some extra power when overtaking or going down slip roads so the "extra power highlights the cars short comings" is a stupid argument as most people aren't even aware of the short comings to begin with!


If you are taking a car in as trade as a main dealer and offering a warranty then it is 100% your responsibility to ensure you can honour that warranty otherwise THIS HAPPENS.


I can guarantee the supplying dealer did no advanced checks on the ECU and only a quick scan along with their usual "130 point check" when the previous owner traded it in, and only when the car was connected up to the remote diagnostic system in Germany was the software tweak noticed.

In this case the engine has presumably not blown up and whatever problem is a weird sensor or electrical issue but the dealer is throwing the warranty invalidated card - that is wrong of the dealer as it is incredibly unlikely that a remap would cause subsequent failure of, for example, a MAF sensor

My M135i has a stock engine , funnily enough because I have a BMW warranty on it and I can't afford £3500 for a used engine replacement.
However the Bilstein suspension, upgraded brakes and limited slip differential certainly mean that when I am in a position to give it more power then it will be ready and I have no doubts in the ability for the engine to take the power as many N55 are running the usual power modifications to around 400hp with no major issues reported!

Butter Face said:

You’re in a massive minority then.

If it’s a decent map, then it’s almost impossible for a dealer to know it’s been done unless the customer told them.

That being said, once it came to light it should have just been dealt with by the dealer.

No that's not the case,
As I said nearly all ECU's now use checksums to verify the file integrity (IE oem map has a checksum of XXXYYYZZZ so if they see XXXYYYBBB then they know it's not an OEM map)

Some tools can clone these so at a glance it looks like a factory map

But there are other ways to tell, namely ECU requesting maximum torque requested which is impossible to hide as otherwise the tune wouldn't work properly!
Manufacturers are not stupid and anyone who knows what they are looking for can tell if it is mapped in about 30 seconds of pulling off the bin.

I would estimate maybe 5-10% of turbocharged petrol or diesel cars have some sort of remap even if it's just because they have a DPF removed due to clogging or because the owner wants more power.

The vast majority of new cars are tied into finance.

Compairing doing 85mph to modifying a car?

Stupid comment? I would hope most people realise the shortcomings of the M135i.

Maybe that's why so many end up in ditches? If a driver can't identify the limitations and shortcomings of the M135i they shouldn't be driving one.


Most people would struggle to find the money for a new engine or gearbox. I doubt many that use a PCP have the spare cash sitting in the bank to clear the finance if caught out either. They still take huge risks.

[xjay1337]

What is your problem with the M135i? Or finance. Lol

This car is an M2. I guess that has lots of short comings. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's ripe for you to berate

[Driver101]

xjay1337 said:

What is your problem with the M135i? Or finance. Lol

This car is an M2. I guess that has lots of short comings. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's ripe for you to berate

You appear to be the only one getting upset. I've merely responded to the points you've introduced into the topic.

I have nothing against the the M135i or finance.

I do have issues with people who lack responsibility and blame everyone else with their stupid excuses and reasoning.

[Chamon_Lee]

Driver101 said:

xjay1337 said:

What is your problem with the M135i? Or finance. Lol

This car is an M2. I guess that has lots of short comings. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's ripe for you to berate

You appear to be the only one getting upset. I've merely responded to the points you've introduced into the topic.

I have nothing against the the M135i or finance.

I do have issues with people who lack responsibility and blame everyone else with their stupid excuses and reasoning.

agreed! These days people generally take the viewpoint well we don't own said financed car lets abuse it and do what we want then give it back, haha its not our problem rather than thinking its not ours we need to look after it in a reasonably unabused condition for when its returned to its owner.

Edited by Chamon_Lee on Monday 15th July 13:42

[xjay1337]

Chamon_Lee said:

Driver101 said:

xjay1337 said:

What is your problem with the M135i? Or finance. Lol

This car is an M2. I guess that has lots of short comings. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's ripe for you to berate

You appear to be the only one getting upset. I've merely responded to the points you've introduced into the topic.

I have nothing against the the M135i or finance.

I do have issues with people who lack responsibility and blame everyone else with their stupid excuses and reasoning.

agreed! These days people generally take the viewpoint well we don't own said financed car lets abuse it and do what we want then give it back, haha its not our problem rather than thinking its not ours we need to look after it in a reasonably unabused condition for when its returned to its owner.

Edited by Chamon_Lee on Monday 15th July 13:42

But as I have said you are assuming that the previous owner had it on Finance or HP?

Maybe they bought it using a Personal loan and traded it in? In which case they can do WHATEVER they like. The DEALER DID NOT CHECK IT WAS SUITABLE FOR WARRANTY.

That is a DEALER PROBLEM.

Now the OP is suffering.

[Driver101]

xjay1337 said:

But as I have said you are assuming that the previous owner had it on Finance or HP?

Maybe they bought it using a Personal loan and traded it in? In which case they can do WHATEVER they like. The DEALER DID NOT CHECK IT WAS SUITABLE FOR WARRANTY.

That is a DEALER PROBLEM.

Now the OP is suffering.

Nearly 90% of new cars are on PCP. It's more than likely it was on finance.

I don't take my finance free cars back to dealers to accept trade in values when I can sell freely with no hassle of finance issues.

Everyone knows dealers don't check cars that deep even for AUC. They are happy to sneak it through and let others be liable to deal with the st.

Until the OP manages to prove he didn't remap the car he is the one left in a hole this time. Other people in the past haven't been able to prove when a remap happened.

Other people have tried to pin the blame on the dealer when they remapped the car. Too many people are happy to rip off dealer any way they can.

Once the dealers and finance companies start checking cars on return forums will full of people not happy that they end up having to accept the responsibility of their actions.

[Sir_Dave]

OP - perhaps post a similar topic on the US forums ...

M2 one here: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/forumdisplay.php...
BMW Coding one here: https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php...

Personally, when it comes to coding/retrofits/maintenance and generally pulling a car apart, working out how it works, then bolting it back together with a billion different modifications, they are rather more adept at it than we are. Well, certainly from a BMW perspective anyway. You'll probably find some uber nerd will be able to dial into your car using your laptop/ESYS/diagnostic lead and and tell you exactly what information you are looking for in the DME checksums.

Good luck with it!

[Jon-usrdo]

Silly suggestion I know...but have you considered checking the V5 to see the details of the previous keeper? Their name and address may be visible. Whilst they will most likely want to stay out of it they may be willing to direct you to the tuner they used who could comment on when the modification was done.