HELP determining WHEN M2 has been chipped/remapped/dme unit

[gobuddygo]

Jon-usrdo said:

Silly suggestion I know...but have you considered checking the V5 to see the details of the previous keeper? Their name and address may be visible. Whilst they will most likely want to stay out of it they may be willing to direct you to the tuner they used who could comment on when the modification was done.

Previous keeper name and addresses are no longer on the V5.

[BFleming]

gobuddygo said:

Jon-usrdo said:

Silly suggestion I know...but have you considered checking the V5 to see the details of the previous keeper? Their name and address may be visible. Whilst they will most likely want to stay out of it they may be willing to direct you to the tuner they used who could comment on when the modification was done.

Previous keeper name and addresses are no longer on the V5.

I repeat, there is no way a previous owner is going to admit to having tuned a car on finance (given 90% of cars are financed) OR failed to declare mods that will have voided the warranty having traded the car in.
I've thought about this, and you can hemorrhage money on proving your case, potentially losing the case due to lack of evidence. So I'd personally recommend you pay £120 (or whatever it is these days, that was their fixed cost 2 years ago) and let BMW update the software on all modules to the newest stand. You have to sign a waiver to say they're not responsible if a module gets bricked, but the update will put a factory map on the car.
I assume you've physically removed the ECU to determine whether or not it has been physically manipulated? For your sanity, I really hope not, otherwise that's £2k ish for a new ECU.

[M5 London]

BFleming said:

I repeat, there is no way a previous owner is going to admit to having tuned a car on finance (given 90% of cars are financed) OR failed to declare mods that will have voided the warranty having traded the car in.
I've thought about this, and you can hemorrhage money on proving your case, potentially losing the case due to lack of evidence. So I'd personally recommend you pay £120 (or whatever it is these days, that was their fixed cost 2 years ago) and let BMW update the software on all modules to the newest stand. You have to sign a waiver to say they're not responsible if a module gets bricked, but the update will put a factory map on the car.
I assume you've physically removed the ECU to determine whether or not it has been physically manipulated? For your sanity, I really hope not, otherwise that's £2k ish for a new ECU.

But reverting the ECU back to stock is not going to deal with the issue at hand.

The car WAS mapped and BMW now say the warranty is void as a result of this action (whether or not the ECU is reverted back to stock or not is immaterial).

[BFleming]

M5 London said:

But reverting the ECU back to stock is not going to deal with the issue at hand.

The car WAS mapped and BMW now say the warranty is void as a result of this action (whether or not the ECU is reverted back to stock or not is immaterial).

Fair point. I was going for engine longevity / product enjoyment going forward, & forgot about the warranty being already voided.

[Sir_Dave]

OP - with a bit of further reading on the US forums, getting the FASTA data out yourself does look to be possible, albeit rather complicated.

With that in mind, it'll require some serious in depth googling (try the term "bmw fasta data") and hours/days of reading to try and get anywhere

In brief, you'll need a copy of ISTA-D/Rheingold (dealer diagnostics) as that creates the "FASTA data" at the end of each session (its then normally sent off to BMW). You can then apparently read said file using "BMW Order Data Viewer". Whether or not that is the same interface that BMW would use to interpret the data i have no idea, but its certainly worth investigating. Bear in mind that FASTA probably wont show any anomalies linked to a plug in tuner like Cobb/JB4 (as that is the whole point of them), but it will show up things like MHD and other normal ECU based maps.

[Timbuktu]

Surely the onus is on BMW to prove that the remap was done WITHIN your ownership.

When they check the date and see it was done prior to them selling it to you and you threaten trading standards I would think they would buy it back pretty quickly - especially if you start tagging them on social media for mis-selling you an AUC car...

I would say you can definitely win this, don't give up, it's their fault not yours.

[JMBMWM5]

Timbuktu said:

Surely the onus is on BMW to prove that the remap was done WITHIN your ownership.

When they check the date and see it was done prior to them selling it to you and you threaten trading standards I would think they would buy it back pretty quickly - especially if you start tagging them on social media for mis-selling you an AUC car...

I would say you can definitely win this, don't give up, it's their fault not yours.

It's the way I would be moving, they would not get away with it if it was me.

[mr sagman]

I would definately start on social media and I would name the dealer and also name the individuals that you have spoken with, I would then start quoting comments made from individuals at 'said dealership', (including dates and times) I would then throw into the conversation my solicitor friend who is very interested in taking on the case, I had a similar situation with a Ford dealership recently and I was getting nowhere.... I then adopted the above approach and I had the situation resolved within 40 Minutes... I got a loan car thrown in FOC and the problem was resolved via a customer service manager who was basically jumping through hoops for me as long as I retracted my post from social media, Forget about targeting BMW Uk and go for the dealer who (mis)sold you the car, They will then put the pressure on BMW UK who will 'solve' this for you very quickly, I was amazed at how helpful and efficient they became once I started turning the screw and naming names.

[Ramona]

If you complete a Form V888, you should be able to get the previous owner's details (you'll need to provide "reasonable cause") - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/v888-re...

[autohead]

Did this ever get resolved by BMW?

[xjay1337]

OP, what happened with this?

[T1berious]

For this reason alone I wouldn't go near anything with a sizeable number of miles on it (>700). I joked with a mate about getting a Golf R cheap after its PCP period was completed and been returned to the network. Just way too many horror stories about car X developing a fault and the dealer / manufacturer saying you invalidated the warranty by chipping it etc. Now its up you to play Sherlock and get the proof it was done prior to you owning it. Daft thing is the eprom has a flash count so if it isn't zero BMW / VW wherever should take the issue up when the vehicle is returned and charge accordingly.

I'd imagine if the manufacturers started demanding the balloon payment people would soon stop doing this on cars they don't actually own.

[Driver101]

T1berious said:

For this reason alone I wouldn't go near anything with a sizeable number of miles on it (>700). I joked with a mate about getting a Golf R cheap after its PCP period was completed and been returned to the network. Just way too many horror stories about car X developing a fault and the dealer / manufacturer saying you invalidated the warranty by chipping it etc. Now its up you to play Sherlock and get the proof it was done prior to you owning it. Daft thing is the eprom has a flash count so if it isn't zero BMW / VW wherever should take the issue up when the vehicle is returned and charge accordingly.

I'd imagine if the manufacturers started demanding the balloon payment people would soon stop doing this on cars they don't actually own.

The car doesn't go back the dealer or manufacturer at the end of a PCP. They are picked up and taken away to auction.

I can see the finance companies starting to do more rigorous checks on cars. Especially cars that they will struggle to get their money back on at auction.

[AW10]

Driver101 said:

The car doesn't go back the dealer or manufacturer at the end of a PCP. They are picked up and taken away to auction.

I can see the finance companies starting to do more rigorous checks on cars. Especially cars that they will struggle to get their money back on at auction.

But will the auction house care? Aren't they usually sold without any warranty, or certainly no warranty from the auction house?

[Driver101]

AW10 said:

But will the auction house care? Aren't they usually sold without any warranty, or certainly no warranty from the auction house?

They have called in the finance when they've caught people modifying their car during the agreement. The person broke the agreement and they don't want the car back.

Quite a lot of cars are still under manufacturer's warranty at the end of a lease or PCP. The Golf R deals were two years. It's not fair on people buying a car under warranty from a finance company only to find that their warranty is void.

If the auction company are going to lose money on cars at auction I can see why they would like to force the owner to buy it for the balloon payment.

[Jon Man]

Hi all,

Apologise for my delayed response, I missed some email notifications on this thread, luckily I caught the emails from yesterday.

Autohead and xjay1337, thanks for checking in. Some good news, some bad news. A different BMW dealership helped me out and worked with BMW technical team to provide the information stating I did not modify the car! This went through acknowledgement of BMW customer services, back in December.

Bad news, in dealing with the dealership I purchased the car from and BMW finance, they have both stopped replying to my emails for over a month now since I provided the above information!

Any suggestions on how to proceed are welcomed, I am looking at various routes of escalation and welcome everyone's perspective.

T1berious, I completely agree, best to get a car with less than 1k mileage in my opinion.

[Driver101]

Jon Man said:

Hi all,

Apologise for my delayed response, I missed some email notifications on this thread, luckily I caught the emails from yesterday.

Autohead and xjay1337, thanks for checking in. Some good news, some bad news. A different BMW dealership helped me out and worked with BMW technical team to provide the information stating I did not modify the car! This went through acknowledgement of BMW customer services, back in December.

Bad news, in dealing with the dealership I purchased the car from and BMW finance, they have both stopped replying to my emails for over a month now since I provided the above information!

Any suggestions on how to proceed are welcomed, I am looking at various routes of escalation and welcome everyone's perspective.

T1berious, I completely agree, best to get a car with less than 1k mileage in my opinion.

Doesn't sound good they want to run away from their responsibilities. BMW finance have pulled up customers for modifying their cars. They can't sell you one and pretend it's ok.

If there is conclusive proof, can they chase up the last owner?

The last comment jogged my memory of a thread on here with the Golf R. This guy claimed his friend bought a Golf R with 40 miles on the clock that had been remapped between new and 40 miles.

It didn't turn out that way. He had tuned it and it blew up. He was still wanting VW to pay for a new engine.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[xjay1337]

Jon Man said:

Hi all,

Apologise for my delayed response, I missed some email notifications on this thread, luckily I caught the emails from yesterday.

Autohead and xjay1337, thanks for checking in. Some good news, some bad news. A different BMW dealership helped me out and worked with BMW technical team to provide the information stating I did not modify the car! This went through acknowledgement of BMW customer services, back in December.

Bad news, in dealing with the dealership I purchased the car from and BMW finance, they have both stopped replying to my emails for over a month now since I provided the above information!

Any suggestions on how to proceed are welcomed, I am looking at various routes of escalation and welcome everyone's perspective.

T1berious, I completely agree, best to get a car with less than 1k mileage in my opinion.

That seems pretty good news to me.

Sorry if you have mentioned, but have you gone down in person to this dealership?

The dealership you are having problems with say the car is modified, where as another dealer and BMW Technical team say it's not.
Is it the case that is was remapped, but not within your ownership time, or was it that the car is completely stock?

I would go down in person.

If they will not look after you then I would write a formal letter to the service manager giving 14 days for a response.

On day 15, send a letter before action.

This is not to say you will actually take them to court, but the threat is usually enough. You could also write truthful reviews on Google / Facebook, and also Email BMW UK support as well as the UK Director/MD ... usually this gets the message through.

[autohead]

You need to get the ombudsman involved asap.

[T1berious]

Small. Claims.

See how they'll ignore a court appearance....