The best M Car? The E46 M3 - Andrew Frankel

[CRA1G]

I have recently added a Z4M Coupe to my little "M" collection and must say how much I've missed owning one from years back, it's so different to my E46 which is also Manual but the Z3M Coupe is still the one that gives me the biggest smile even though it's not the better car if that make sense.....?

[cerb4.5lee]

Babw said:

Having owned an E46 M3, it was completely overhyped.

I've felt disappointed with them whenever I've had a go in one too. They felt heavy to me and not much happened unless you were right at the top of the revs for me.

To be fair though I personally felt exactly the same about my Z4M/E92 M3 as well. I'm odd because I don't really enjoy using a BMW NA engine, whereas the majority absolutely love them for sure though.

I prefer a turbo engine for the lower end torque in a BMW because they do a better job of hiding the weight of a BMW for me.

[Babw]

Certainly agree with the subjective but once you start changing geo, spring rates, roll centres and tyre size you’re changing the whole essence of the chassis therefor it’s clearly not that great stock considering how many people modify M cars compared to the likes of Porsche.

Let’s also be honest, motoring journalists are on the whole the biggest bunch of speculators and they will make bold statements with very limited experience relative to actual owners. They’re neither manufacturers nor owners (majority of the time).

I listen to the intercooler/drive nation and this guy is one of the least convincing.

[1602Mark]

Babw said:

Certainly agree with the subjective but once you start changing geo, spring rates, roll centres and tyre size you’re changing the whole essence of the chassis therefor it’s clearly not that great stock considering how many people modify M cars compared to the likes of Porsche.

Let’s also be honest, motoring journalists are on the whole the biggest bunch of speculators and they will make bold statements with very limited experience relative to actual owners. They’re neither manufacturers nor owners (majority of the time).

I listen to the intercooler/drive nation and this guy is one of the least convincing.

To my mind, it's the quality of the chassis that allows those mods to have such an effect. It was the same with the E30 M3, in as much as the baseline chassis could be tweaked to unleash its full potential. As a stock car it was very good, but compromised to allow daily duties etc. Once you start making it more focussed on track and/or fast road driving those changes allow you to really tap the full potential of the base chassis. Just my opinion / experience though and I'm certainly no authority / expert.

[daviekiwi]

E30 m3 is the Ulitimate M3, no doubt! looks amazing.
E46 M3 is a blast, s54 engine sounds awesome, you have work it though! M bargin before Bangle mangle styling?

[Mr Tidy]

daviekiwi said:

E30 m3 is the Ulitimate M3, no doubt! looks amazing.
E46 M3 is a blast, s54 engine sounds awesome, you have work it though! M bargin before Bangle mangle styling?

You say that but I think the Bangle styling on the Z4MC still looks great - and you still get an S54, thankfully with no SMG option!

[Cheburator mk2]

Mr Tidy said:

You say that but I think the Bangle styling on the Z4MC still looks great - and you still get an S54, thankfully with no SMG option!

I would agree - Bangle got styling for BMW spot on and the Z4MC was certainly his best creation.

Where I would disagree is that SMG is not good. I had a Z4MC from new and did 50k over the first 5yrs. The most forgettable aspect of the car - the gear change...

I would also add - I am on my 8th E46 M3 - the chassis is better suited for the UK road network than the Z4MC. The latter is rather unforgiving and demands concentration to be driven fast. Still a great car, and I would love to buy YF06HLP back, but I think the E46 M3 really is the best ///M car ever made...

[Mr Tidy]

Cheburator mk2 said:

I would agree - Bangle got styling for BMW spot on and the Z4MC was certainly his best creation.

Where I would disagree is that SMG is not good. I had a Z4MC from new and did 50k over the first 5yrs. The most forgettable aspect of the car - the gear change...

I would also add - I am on my 8th E46 M3 - the chassis is better suited for the UK road network than the Z4MC. The latter is rather unforgiving and demands concentration to be driven fast. Still a great car, and I would love to buy YF06HLP back, but I think the E46 M3 really is the best ///M car ever made...

Interesting that you didn't like the Z4MC gearbox - it's much better than the one in my E90 330i.

I've never driven an E46 M3 so can't compare, but the fact that the MC demands concentration was one of the things I liked about it!

Still we seem to share a love of the S54 engine.

[Cheburator mk2]

Mr Tidy said:

Interesting that you didn't like the Z4MC gearbox - it's much better than the one in my E90 330i.

I've never driven an E46 M3 so can't compare, but the fact that the MC demands concentration was one of the things I liked about it!

Still we seem to share a love of the S54 engine.

The gearbox in the Z4MC is shared with the E46/9x 330i - it’s a ZF unit. I didn’t say I didn’t like it. But it wasn’t a memorable one. I kept the car for 5yrs and 50k after all and want it back...

[CRA1G]

I think the steering is better on the ZM which actually feels quicker than the M3 but I think that's more to do with the fact I'm sat lower,I should drive both back to back one sunny afternoon...

[Cheburator mk2]

CRA1G said:

I think the steering is better on the ZM which actually feels quicker than the M3 but I think that's more to do with the fact I'm sat lower,I should drive both back to back one sunny afternoon...

The Z4MC has the quickest rack fitted to a production BMW - even faster than the famous E46 Purple tag or CSL or E36 Compact racks. Having had a ZMC and a Z4MC - the Z4MC is the better car by a long country mile, but the clown shoe is the one which always caused a massive gri. Perhaps it was something to do with the 500PS under the bonnet?

[CRA1G]

Cheburator mk2 said:

The Z4MC has the quickest rack fitted to a production BMW - even faster than the famous E46 Purple tag or CSL or E36 Compact racks. Having had a ZMC and a Z4MC - the Z4MC is the better car by a long country mile, but the clown shoe is the one which always caused a massive gri. Perhaps it was something to do with the 500PS under the bonnet?

The "Clowns Shoe" is the most fun definitely... mines a S50 as I've said before not necessarily the better car but the one that gives me the most smiles....

[Mr Tidy]

Cheburator mk2 said:

The gearbox in the Z4MC is shared with the E46/9x 330i - it’s a ZF unit. I didn’t say I didn’t like it. But it wasn’t a memorable one. I kept the car for 5yrs and 50k after all and want it back...

Are you sure?

I thought E46/E90s had a Getrag gearbox.

Which seem to be hit and miss in my experience.

[Pereldh]

I'd also put Z4M Coupe somewhere up there, half for the looks alone.. Ok you'd need aftermarket suspension to really make it great.

Anyway I rarely agree with Frankel, and can hardly listen to the dreary Intercooler Podcast anymore. Actually, this Bmw M-diversion was rare for Andrew who mostly likes to discuss British Things.

[Cheburator mk2]

Mr Tidy said:

Are you sure?

I thought E46/E90s had a Getrag gearbox.

Which seem to be hit and miss in my experience.

Yes, I am totally certain. Only the E46 M3 had a Getrag gearbox. The cooking E46 as well as the E90 and your Z4MC had ZF 6-spd manuals installed. Do not ask my why, but they are different boxes... If you don't believe me - go under your cars and you will see the ZF stickers on the boxes...

[Slippydiff]

Cheburator mk2 said:

Mr Tidy said:

Are you sure?

I thought E46/E90s had a Getrag gearbox.

Which seem to be hit and miss in my experience.

Yes, I am totally certain. Only the E46 M3 had a Getrag gearbox. The cooking E46 as well as the E90 and your Z4MC had ZF 6-spd manuals installed. Do not ask my why, but they are different boxes... If you don't believe me - go under your cars and you will see the ZF stickers on the boxes...

The anti-SMG lobby keep pushing their agenda at every opportunity
As I've said before, if BMW manual transmission shift actions were truly wonderful out of the box (excuse the pun) I could understand the want for them, but the reverse is true, they're generally distinctlyaverage at best.

1M Coupe X 2 : Both did what they said they did on the tin, but nothing more, they certainly weren't tactile and engaging to use.

E30 M3 X 2 : I really didn't (and still don't) get the hype over the "legendary dogleg 'box in the seminal M3.
Quite frankly, all it did was highlight the wheezy 4 pot banger's lack of torque. Again, if the shift action had been riflebolt and wonderfully accurate whilst being tactile and engaging, I could understand the praise for it, but even after the box had been fully rebuilt to rectify the defunct synchros between first and second and second and third, it still mediocre at best.

E36 M3 saloon (non Evo) and that last bit is crucial, because it came with a wonderful 5 speed 'box, rather than the Evo's questionable 6 speed item.
The shift action was the best BMW 'box I've experienced to date, throw not too long (or short) nicely weighted, felt like a precision linkage that had been nicely engineered by the M Power division (I'm guessing it was the same box as used in E36 328i Sport (with differing ratios) ?
Either way, it was lovely 'box.

[robbiekhan]

I use my E46 M3 (manual) for long journeys mostly with the occasional blast around Hampshire's winding hills and countryside. Thoroughly comfortable on a long drive across the motorway but fun and sonically pleasing around the winding B roads.Had mine 7 years and cannot think of any other car that could offer me the same balance of looks, space, usable 4 seats for adults and performance + noise for the same money.

Not cheap cars to keep on the road these days though I've spent £30k over 7 years (excluding fuel)..

Stick a modern Android nav unit in there like an AVIN 4 and you have what looks like OEM NAV on the outside, but has Android Auto and all your fav apps on the inside with a powerful DAC/Amp thrown in. Sorted.

Have yet to be in a situation where I've wished for more power too, Evolve's remap and the Eventuri combined have made it sound and feel amazing for those times I just want to overtake or blast around and make some CSL-like induction noise.

Edited by robbiekhan on Thursday 17th June 13:18

[1602Mark]

Slippydiff said:

E30 M3 X 2 : I really didn't (and still don't) get the hype over the "legendary dogleg 'box in the seminal M3.
Quite frankly, all it did was highlight the wheezy 4 pot banger's lack of torque. Again, if the shift action had been riflebolt and wonderfully accurate whilst being tactile and engaging, I could understand the praise for it, but even after the box had been fully rebuilt to rectify the defunct synchros between first and second and second and third, it still mediocre at best.

I had a Samsona shifter on mine and it was epic. Proper rifle bolt snick gearchanges. Admittedly it was reluctant when cold but I always warmed it thoroughly anyway.