S63TU failures - M5, M6 & M6 GC
Discussion
bmwmike said:
E90_M3Ross said:
To be fair the S85 is actually a pretty reliable lump, the rod bearings being the only significant issue.
My how far things have fallen when the S85 is considered pretty reliable. Do agree btw. I'd not be put off having an S85 but s63tu would make me 20p50p every time I'm driving it.Why is the S85 unreliable? Rod bearing failure is fairly rare if treated well (like mine, they were in great condition after 85k miles) and aside from that any other real failures seem very rare....? Minor stuff like weaping rocket cover gaskets or whatever is all pretty cheap to sort.
E90_M3Ross said:
What do you mean 20p50p?
Why is the S85 unreliable? Rod bearing failure is fairly rare if treated well (like mine, they were in great condition after 85k miles) and aside from that any other real failures seem very rare....? Minor stuff like weaping rocket cover gaskets or whatever is all pretty cheap to sort.
They are nowhere near as unreliable as made out, they just had a fair few catastrophic failures that were well documented. Why is the S85 unreliable? Rod bearing failure is fairly rare if treated well (like mine, they were in great condition after 85k miles) and aside from that any other real failures seem very rare....? Minor stuff like weaping rocket cover gaskets or whatever is all pretty cheap to sort.
The main problem at the moment is injectors, as they can fail open, leading to hydrolocking. The bigger problem is there are currently no new injectors available and no certainty when / if there will be new ones.
MikeM6 said:
They are nowhere near as unreliable as made out, they just had a fair few catastrophic failures that were well documented.
The main problem at the moment is injectors, as they can fail open, leading to hydrolocking. The bigger problem is there are currently no new injectors available and no certainty when / if there will be new ones.
The S85 injectors ? They are just normal electro magnetic ones aren't they? I know the piezo injectors had supply issues but didn't realise that carried across to other injectors. Interesting.The main problem at the moment is injectors, as they can fail open, leading to hydrolocking. The bigger problem is there are currently no new injectors available and no certainty when / if there will be new ones.
20p50p is slang for wobbly rectum due to nerves.
MikeM6 said:
They are nowhere near as unreliable as made out, they just had a fair few catastrophic failures that were well documented.
The main problem at the moment is injectors, as they can fail open, leading to hydrolocking. The bigger problem is there are currently no new injectors available and no certainty when / if there will be new ones.
That's for the M5. There are injectors available for the S85, seemingly. The main problem at the moment is injectors, as they can fail open, leading to hydrolocking. The bigger problem is there are currently no new injectors available and no certainty when / if there will be new ones.
bmwmike said:
The S85 injectors ? They are just normal electro magnetic ones aren't they? I know the piezo injectors had supply issues but didn't realise that carried across to other injectors. Interesting.
20p50p is slang for wobbly rectum due to nerves.
I read about the M5 injector issue. They seemingly have different injectors to the S85. 20p50p is slang for wobbly rectum due to nerves.
E90_M3Ross said:
MikeM6 said:
They are nowhere near as unreliable as made out, they just had a fair few catastrophic failures that were well documented.
The main problem at the moment is injectors, as they can fail open, leading to hydrolocking. The bigger problem is there are currently no new injectors available and no certainty when / if there will be new ones.
That's for the M5. There are injectors available for the S85, seemingly. The main problem at the moment is injectors, as they can fail open, leading to hydrolocking. The bigger problem is there are currently no new injectors available and no certainty when / if there will be new ones.
Unless you are thinking of the S65? Not sure if they use the same injectors.
MikeM6 said:
E90_M3Ross said:
MikeM6 said:
They are nowhere near as unreliable as made out, they just had a fair few catastrophic failures that were well documented.
The main problem at the moment is injectors, as they can fail open, leading to hydrolocking. The bigger problem is there are currently no new injectors available and no certainty when / if there will be new ones.
That's for the M5. There are injectors available for the S85, seemingly. The main problem at the moment is injectors, as they can fail open, leading to hydrolocking. The bigger problem is there are currently no new injectors available and no certainty when / if there will be new ones.
Unless you are thinking of the S65? Not sure if they use the same injectors.
Apologies for the confusion!
The S85/65 rod bearing debacle was directly caused by poor rod bearing quality control from Clevite.
Some cars failed at low mileage while most others managed good mileages.
Interestingly *all* the early USA S85 engine failures had an ECU tune.
Early tuners had a poor understanding of the ion sensing anti knock ignition software and cars ended up running hard against the knock sensor.
One of the well known west coast tuners blew up his S65 engine, so poorly did they understand the complex software.
These were not engines to have ECU tuned or to use low octane fuels.
Other than that...great engines.
Some cars failed at low mileage while most others managed good mileages.
Interestingly *all* the early USA S85 engine failures had an ECU tune.
Early tuners had a poor understanding of the ion sensing anti knock ignition software and cars ended up running hard against the knock sensor.
One of the well known west coast tuners blew up his S65 engine, so poorly did they understand the complex software.
These were not engines to have ECU tuned or to use low octane fuels.
Other than that...great engines.
Max Maxasson said:
The S85/65 rod bearing debacle was directly caused by poor rod bearing quality control from Clevite.
Some cars failed at low mileage while most others managed good mileages.
Interestingly *all* the early USA S85 engine failures had an ECU tune.
Early tuners had a poor understanding of the ion sensing anti knock ignition software and cars ended up running hard against the knock sensor.
One of the well known west coast tuners blew up his S65 engine, so poorly did they understand the complex software.
These were not engines to have ECU tuned or to use low octane fuels.
Other than that...great engines.
Always run mine on 99RON Some cars failed at low mileage while most others managed good mileages.
Interestingly *all* the early USA S85 engine failures had an ECU tune.
Early tuners had a poor understanding of the ion sensing anti knock ignition software and cars ended up running hard against the knock sensor.
One of the well known west coast tuners blew up his S65 engine, so poorly did they understand the complex software.
These were not engines to have ECU tuned or to use low octane fuels.
Other than that...great engines.
I suspect the difference in price is largely mitigated by benefits in economy anyway. Maybe. That's what I keep telling myself 
Bumping this thread in case PI55 Flaps has an update on their warranty claim???
I am very close to pulling the trigger on an f10 M5 and was feeling comforted by Comprehensive BMW Warranty but now I feel less so. Cars I am looking at are between £25-30k so looking at 6-16k bill if enginge goes from look of this thread?
I am very close to pulling the trigger on an f10 M5 and was feeling comforted by Comprehensive BMW Warranty but now I feel less so. Cars I am looking at are between £25-30k so looking at 6-16k bill if enginge goes from look of this thread?
If you have the warranty, the car has been serviced properly (so more frequently than every 18k miles etc) and you are confident that it has not been modified, then no reason not buy one if you like it.
If the engine let's go, that is what the warranty is for. BMW Roadside assistance would be useful to have at that point though.
If the engine let's go, that is what the warranty is for. BMW Roadside assistance would be useful to have at that point though.
Z4MCSL said:
Hey Mike
The concern is more that the warranty clearly does no match the engine cost. I.e. it pays up to value of the car which is 26k but the engine rebuild cost at BMW sounds like it is 36k so a cost to me of £10k in that scenario
I can tell you that BMW Insured Warranty won't pay a peny over the purchase price of the car and they would like to see hard documentary evidence for it. I had to send them a PDF copy of my supplying dealer invoice. The concern is more that the warranty clearly does no match the engine cost. I.e. it pays up to value of the car which is 26k but the engine rebuild cost at BMW sounds like it is 36k so a cost to me of £10k in that scenario
I also suffered a short fall, which had to ask BMW UK to make up in the form of goodwill.
Last but not least - unless it's an obvious fault - like a hole in the block, the dealer would have to partially strip the engine, so that they can demonstrate that at least two major components - (they are engine block, crank, heads) have failed necessitating the replacement of the engine. That costs money, which would be covered by BMW IW, but it would eat into the payout.
I am done with mine, but it was a painful process...
P.S. Had a long chat with the dealer technician and we were still baffled as to what caused the crank to weld itself to the conrods...
Thanks Cheburator, do you mind me asking how much your situation ended up costing and if BMW did offer any good will reimbursement.
I've gone through engines in another car which was painful at about 6k but the M5s I'm looking at are 25k so leaving a 5 figure gap to cover the engine
Almost makes me tempted to buy a mint 15k miler car to both reduce the risk overall and to pay 36k+ for the car for the warranty cover - I know that doesn't really make any sense tho.
This has put such a massive spanner in the works.
I'm still leaning towards taking the risk but will see.
Also separate question but how did the warranty then work out on the new engine?!
I've gone through engines in another car which was painful at about 6k but the M5s I'm looking at are 25k so leaving a 5 figure gap to cover the engine
Almost makes me tempted to buy a mint 15k miler car to both reduce the risk overall and to pay 36k+ for the car for the warranty cover - I know that doesn't really make any sense tho.
This has put such a massive spanner in the works.
I'm still leaning towards taking the risk but will see.
Also separate question but how did the warranty then work out on the new engine?!
Z4MCSL said:
Thanks Cheburator, do you mind me asking how much your situation ended up costing and if BMW did offer any good will reimbursement.
I've gone through engines in another car which was painful at about 6k but the M5s I'm looking at are 25k so leaving a 5 figure gap to cover the engine
Almost makes me tempted to buy a mint 15k miler car to both reduce the risk overall and to pay 36k+ for the car for the warranty cover - I know that doesn't really make any sense tho.
This has put such a massive spanner in the works.
I'm still leaning towards taking the risk but will see.
Also separate question but how did the warranty then work out on the new engine?!
The nuances of these warranty claims are quite subtle...I've gone through engines in another car which was painful at about 6k but the M5s I'm looking at are 25k so leaving a 5 figure gap to cover the engine
Almost makes me tempted to buy a mint 15k miler car to both reduce the risk overall and to pay 36k+ for the car for the warranty cover - I know that doesn't really make any sense tho.
This has put such a massive spanner in the works.
I'm still leaning towards taking the risk but will see.
Also separate question but how did the warranty then work out on the new engine?!
My claim was for £26.5k and BMW provided a £2k goodwill to cover the complete bill of £28.5k
When they say "New engine" it's not a complete new unit coming in on a palet, ready to be dropped in in 4hrs. It's more like an ala-carte menu. In my case, it was a long block - crank+pistons+heads+cams. Everything else, came back from my original engine. Then it turned out that both Turbos were also toast, so I got two new Turbos and that's where BMW stepped in.
The most annoying thing is that I did most of the admin work myself with help from BMW Insured Warranty. So, yes, I got a new lump in the car, but it took it's toll.
As to your choice - hard to tell - I thought I had bought a minter - I am the second owner, always BMW serviced - Park Lane and Stephen James - and low mileage, no tune and look at what happened - boom! at 80k miles...
Thanks so much that is super helpful.
Sorry for more questions but if you have time:
First question:
I am also looking at Stephen James - they offer a BMW Warranty which then is further topped up by a "Stephen James BMW Warranty" - this is provided by Car Care or something. They have advised it perfectly mirrors the BMW Fully Comp warranty but I am requesting Ts & Cs to review properly, so first question is was your warranty claim on the official BMW warranty or a Stephen James BMW warranty?
Second Question:
Do you know what the warranty situation is on the current work they have done - are you now covered for another claim up to £26k presumably?
Third Question:
Out of interest which BMW garage did the work?
Sorry for more questions but if you have time:
First question:
I am also looking at Stephen James - they offer a BMW Warranty which then is further topped up by a "Stephen James BMW Warranty" - this is provided by Car Care or something. They have advised it perfectly mirrors the BMW Fully Comp warranty but I am requesting Ts & Cs to review properly, so first question is was your warranty claim on the official BMW warranty or a Stephen James BMW warranty?
Second Question:
Do you know what the warranty situation is on the current work they have done - are you now covered for another claim up to £26k presumably?
Third Question:
Out of interest which BMW garage did the work?
Z4MCSL said:
Thanks so much that is super helpful.
Sorry for more questions but if you have time:
First question:
I am also looking at Stephen James - they offer a BMW Warranty which then is further topped up by a "Stephen James BMW Warranty" - this is provided by Car Care or something. They have advised it perfectly mirrors the BMW Fully Comp warranty but I am requesting Ts & Cs to review properly, so first question is was your warranty claim on the official BMW warranty or a Stephen James BMW warranty?
Second Question:
Do you know what the warranty situation is on the current work they have done - are you now covered for another claim up to £26k presumably?
Third Question:
Out of interest which BMW garage did the work?
1) The warranty claim was on BMW Insured Warranty, which is run by Allianz. I would not trust any other warranty company to provide the same level of coverage. Sorry for more questions but if you have time:
First question:
I am also looking at Stephen James - they offer a BMW Warranty which then is further topped up by a "Stephen James BMW Warranty" - this is provided by Car Care or something. They have advised it perfectly mirrors the BMW Fully Comp warranty but I am requesting Ts & Cs to review properly, so first question is was your warranty claim on the official BMW warranty or a Stephen James BMW warranty?
Second Question:
Do you know what the warranty situation is on the current work they have done - are you now covered for another claim up to £26k presumably?
Third Question:
Out of interest which BMW garage did the work?
2) The car would be covered for £26.5k again, but from the 14th of October - I have exhausted the claim limit for my current year under cover, which runs Oct to Oct. I have this in writing from BMW Insured Warranty. I think the engine carries a separate 2yrs BMW Warranty, which is different from BMW Insured warranty.
3) Stephen James Ruxley did the work. Cannot fault the workshop guys, but the actual service advisors and warranty people - I don't think I would trust them to run me a bath, let alone another warranty claim in the future....
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