Thinking about buying a M8 Comp
Discussion
Thought I'd wade in here with a view - there's not really a lot of content on this car which is hardly surprising as BMW haven't sold many.
I've had a good back catalogue of BMW's - most M3 iterations from e92, three M6's (from the V10 to the V8's), a couple of F90 M5's and now my current M8 Gran Coupe.
In fact, in the last few years I've pretty regularly changed between the two M5's, two RS6's and three Panamera's (GTS and Turbo). The best cars IMO were the Panamera's, especially the GTS's and I'd still have my last Panamera today had it not been plagued with a persistent brake fault that eluded the ability of three OPC's and one well regarded independent to fix...I gave up and sold it, I would have bought another one (as it was a bit of a freak issue) but couldn't find one in the spec I wanted so that sent me back to BMW.
Not Audi...after really liking my C7 RS6, the C8 I had a couple of years lasted all of five weeks - wallowy barge comes to mind, although BM Man you may like it (or the RS7 equivalent) if you want a more cushy ride, although be aware the build quality is not like the previous generations and it had a noticeably creaky dash.
Anyway, that's the backdrop and when the Panamera went I compared an M8 GC and an M5 CP back to back. I know what I was getting from the M5 as I'd had them before and was expecting the M8 to feel pretty much the same, much like my previous M6's were very similar to the M5 they were based on. Test driving them back to back I have to say, the M8 is a totally different car...and actually that's factually the case because where the F series M5 and M6 were the same platform, on the G series the M8 is based on the 7-Series carbon core platform.
The M5 would have been the more sensible buy because, having two young kids, it's decidedly the more practical in boot, although the M8 GC appears to have better rear legroom as it's a very long car. However, there are three key differences for me that won over the M8 for me:
1. The different platform has enabled a far superior, for me at least, driving position. In the M5 you sit high up on soft plump seats (which are admittedly very good) with the pedals further down and closer to you. In the M8...well, it's just like a Porsche really...with a firm seat (which I accept some might find less comfortable as it has less adjustment and is notably harder, however I prefer it), much lower in position and with the pedals far out in front of you. A proper legs straight out, wheel in your chest and reclined driving position which, to me, feels perfect. The M5 in contrast is unsurprisingly just like a regular saloon car.
2. The dynamics and in particular, the ride quality...which does seem to contrast with BM Man's comments above but bear with me. I accept it is 'harsh' as the chassis lets through a lot of feedback - you definitely feel the road surface a lot. This does appear to be typical modern-day M car and likely a result of BMW rose jointing the suspension rather than using rubber bushes...M's are harsh in this respect (in a way non-M BMW's are definitely not), much harsher than the Panamera, RS6 etc. I also have a Huracan, and have had McLaren's 911's, R8's etc....none of them let through the kind of surface feedback that every modern-day M car I've driven seems to...
The F90 M5 is the same in this respect, but I found the M5 CP to have a far busier ride, generating a lot more vertical movement and body roll than the M8. Despite the harsh ride, owning an M5 back to back against the far smoother Panamera was almost laughable how much the body moved and rolled about in comparison. The M8 driven back to back against an M5 felt as harsh for sure, but with much less body movement over undulating roads and much (much!) better roll control. It doesn't feel vastly worse than the Panamera in terms of how tightly it manages its body movement, whereas the M5 did....perhaps this added control makes it feel more uncomfortable to some, but to me having a more tightly controlled ride feels more comfortable than the M5 and hence I prefer how the M8 drives...although this is specifically about the GC which is a very long car and that must help the ride out a bit (I don't know if the coupe is the same).
3. The interior - I actually think it's one of the best interiors of any of these type of cars I've had. The design stands apart from the typical BMW vibe, whereas an M5 is what it is...a 5er interior. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing special either whereas the M8 has some architectural flair with the wide sloping console (which does give off some vibes of the original 8), materials, use of colour, quilting etc. It also just feels more special with its narrow windows and low roofline - the view out of it just feels more sporting if that's a thing you're after (I like it, but perhaps less appealing if you're more after a saloon car vibe).
I do agree with BM Mans points about build quality and rattles - this is not a badly made car but it 'was' noisier in this respect than the Panamera. No worse however than the latest RS6 which was also disappointing in this respect for me, but most modern cars seem to be constructed in similar, more creaky ways than cars of 10-15 years ago (I assume it's cheaper). This is not a good thing for me as I have a very strong aversion to interior creaks and rattles (and why the Panamera was so good for me - that was extremely well constructed) and I find that most modern BMW's suffer the same issues, which amount to two main areas: 1) plastic welds on interior components that tend to crack over broken surfaces and creak when you push on them, and 2) noisy door seals on frameless window cars if the seals are not very diligently looked after.
Because I have such a strong aversion to these noises, I have over the years taught myself how to work on car interiors to fix noises (read: I take them apart and I use a mix of tactics to stop noises). The creaky plastics were easily and permanently dealt with by spraying plastic-on-plastic joins with a dry PTFE - I've done all door trims and centre console, however a certain amount of dismantling was needed which puts this out of scope of more 'normal' people without my 'problem' (believe me, I wish these things didn't bother me!).
However, the main noise in the M8 comes from the frameless door seals, and these can sound like lots of rattles from various areas, but in reality it's probably just chattering door seals. This is not a BMW strong point and, as there are four big frameless doors on this car, if the seals aren't super soft and matte looking like on a brand new car, they creak. This seems to be caused by additives in car shampoos so one needs to choose shampoo carefully - I am the second owner of my car so I was not surprised when the seals were noisy. Gummifledge or Krytox offer some temporary relief but the only real fix is to replace the seals (and you can push a friendly dealer to do this under warranty, but it does take some effort) and then try not to get them contaminated. BM Man, if this bothers you then perhaps buy some Gummifledge and apply to your seals - if the noise goes away, you'll know that's the issue (it will only last a short time, but at least gives you some ammunition with you dealer to get them replaced).
Finally in terms of aesthetics, the M8 certainly has some presence and looks more distinctive (especially to non car people) than the M5. I still wouldn't call it BMW's finest design as it can look a bit awkward from some angles (I'm talking the Gran Coupe here) and it's certainly not as successful a piece of design as the M6 Gran Coupe. I wouldn't have bought this car instead of an M5 for it's looks because I think the M5 has a particularly successful muscular look about it.
So in summary, the M8 IMO is quite a different car to the M5 and it's a totally different proposition. There's a bigger difference than I expected in how it drives and those differences, for me personally, are more preferable. I do think construction quality has taken a downward trend in the last 10-15 years which can make these cars feel less robust, but this applies to almost all cars now and for a lunatic like me, not beyond potential to be resolved (although admittedly one shouldn't need to). Conversely, material quality seems superior these days...so basically we get a facade of superficial quality these days
Worth noting my M8 Ultimate pack, at a year old and with 6k miles the clock, was within £5k of a similar age M5 Ultimate pack....so you pay your money and take your choice, There is no right or wrong really!
This is mine, and it's the daily family smoker...
I've had a good back catalogue of BMW's - most M3 iterations from e92, three M6's (from the V10 to the V8's), a couple of F90 M5's and now my current M8 Gran Coupe.
In fact, in the last few years I've pretty regularly changed between the two M5's, two RS6's and three Panamera's (GTS and Turbo). The best cars IMO were the Panamera's, especially the GTS's and I'd still have my last Panamera today had it not been plagued with a persistent brake fault that eluded the ability of three OPC's and one well regarded independent to fix...I gave up and sold it, I would have bought another one (as it was a bit of a freak issue) but couldn't find one in the spec I wanted so that sent me back to BMW.
Not Audi...after really liking my C7 RS6, the C8 I had a couple of years lasted all of five weeks - wallowy barge comes to mind, although BM Man you may like it (or the RS7 equivalent) if you want a more cushy ride, although be aware the build quality is not like the previous generations and it had a noticeably creaky dash.
Anyway, that's the backdrop and when the Panamera went I compared an M8 GC and an M5 CP back to back. I know what I was getting from the M5 as I'd had them before and was expecting the M8 to feel pretty much the same, much like my previous M6's were very similar to the M5 they were based on. Test driving them back to back I have to say, the M8 is a totally different car...and actually that's factually the case because where the F series M5 and M6 were the same platform, on the G series the M8 is based on the 7-Series carbon core platform.
The M5 would have been the more sensible buy because, having two young kids, it's decidedly the more practical in boot, although the M8 GC appears to have better rear legroom as it's a very long car. However, there are three key differences for me that won over the M8 for me:
1. The different platform has enabled a far superior, for me at least, driving position. In the M5 you sit high up on soft plump seats (which are admittedly very good) with the pedals further down and closer to you. In the M8...well, it's just like a Porsche really...with a firm seat (which I accept some might find less comfortable as it has less adjustment and is notably harder, however I prefer it), much lower in position and with the pedals far out in front of you. A proper legs straight out, wheel in your chest and reclined driving position which, to me, feels perfect. The M5 in contrast is unsurprisingly just like a regular saloon car.
2. The dynamics and in particular, the ride quality...which does seem to contrast with BM Man's comments above but bear with me. I accept it is 'harsh' as the chassis lets through a lot of feedback - you definitely feel the road surface a lot. This does appear to be typical modern-day M car and likely a result of BMW rose jointing the suspension rather than using rubber bushes...M's are harsh in this respect (in a way non-M BMW's are definitely not), much harsher than the Panamera, RS6 etc. I also have a Huracan, and have had McLaren's 911's, R8's etc....none of them let through the kind of surface feedback that every modern-day M car I've driven seems to...
The F90 M5 is the same in this respect, but I found the M5 CP to have a far busier ride, generating a lot more vertical movement and body roll than the M8. Despite the harsh ride, owning an M5 back to back against the far smoother Panamera was almost laughable how much the body moved and rolled about in comparison. The M8 driven back to back against an M5 felt as harsh for sure, but with much less body movement over undulating roads and much (much!) better roll control. It doesn't feel vastly worse than the Panamera in terms of how tightly it manages its body movement, whereas the M5 did....perhaps this added control makes it feel more uncomfortable to some, but to me having a more tightly controlled ride feels more comfortable than the M5 and hence I prefer how the M8 drives...although this is specifically about the GC which is a very long car and that must help the ride out a bit (I don't know if the coupe is the same).
3. The interior - I actually think it's one of the best interiors of any of these type of cars I've had. The design stands apart from the typical BMW vibe, whereas an M5 is what it is...a 5er interior. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing special either whereas the M8 has some architectural flair with the wide sloping console (which does give off some vibes of the original 8), materials, use of colour, quilting etc. It also just feels more special with its narrow windows and low roofline - the view out of it just feels more sporting if that's a thing you're after (I like it, but perhaps less appealing if you're more after a saloon car vibe).
I do agree with BM Mans points about build quality and rattles - this is not a badly made car but it 'was' noisier in this respect than the Panamera. No worse however than the latest RS6 which was also disappointing in this respect for me, but most modern cars seem to be constructed in similar, more creaky ways than cars of 10-15 years ago (I assume it's cheaper). This is not a good thing for me as I have a very strong aversion to interior creaks and rattles (and why the Panamera was so good for me - that was extremely well constructed) and I find that most modern BMW's suffer the same issues, which amount to two main areas: 1) plastic welds on interior components that tend to crack over broken surfaces and creak when you push on them, and 2) noisy door seals on frameless window cars if the seals are not very diligently looked after.
Because I have such a strong aversion to these noises, I have over the years taught myself how to work on car interiors to fix noises (read: I take them apart and I use a mix of tactics to stop noises). The creaky plastics were easily and permanently dealt with by spraying plastic-on-plastic joins with a dry PTFE - I've done all door trims and centre console, however a certain amount of dismantling was needed which puts this out of scope of more 'normal' people without my 'problem' (believe me, I wish these things didn't bother me!).
However, the main noise in the M8 comes from the frameless door seals, and these can sound like lots of rattles from various areas, but in reality it's probably just chattering door seals. This is not a BMW strong point and, as there are four big frameless doors on this car, if the seals aren't super soft and matte looking like on a brand new car, they creak. This seems to be caused by additives in car shampoos so one needs to choose shampoo carefully - I am the second owner of my car so I was not surprised when the seals were noisy. Gummifledge or Krytox offer some temporary relief but the only real fix is to replace the seals (and you can push a friendly dealer to do this under warranty, but it does take some effort) and then try not to get them contaminated. BM Man, if this bothers you then perhaps buy some Gummifledge and apply to your seals - if the noise goes away, you'll know that's the issue (it will only last a short time, but at least gives you some ammunition with you dealer to get them replaced).
Finally in terms of aesthetics, the M8 certainly has some presence and looks more distinctive (especially to non car people) than the M5. I still wouldn't call it BMW's finest design as it can look a bit awkward from some angles (I'm talking the Gran Coupe here) and it's certainly not as successful a piece of design as the M6 Gran Coupe. I wouldn't have bought this car instead of an M5 for it's looks because I think the M5 has a particularly successful muscular look about it.
So in summary, the M8 IMO is quite a different car to the M5 and it's a totally different proposition. There's a bigger difference than I expected in how it drives and those differences, for me personally, are more preferable. I do think construction quality has taken a downward trend in the last 10-15 years which can make these cars feel less robust, but this applies to almost all cars now and for a lunatic like me, not beyond potential to be resolved (although admittedly one shouldn't need to). Conversely, material quality seems superior these days...so basically we get a facade of superficial quality these days
Worth noting my M8 Ultimate pack, at a year old and with 6k miles the clock, was within £5k of a similar age M5 Ultimate pack....so you pay your money and take your choice, There is no right or wrong really!
This is mine, and it's the daily family smoker...
Edited by Palmball on Tuesday 23 April 23:32
Good review and a very nice car you have there Palmball.
I was considering a RS7 I have read the ride is softer and its on Air Suspension. But the M8 GC looks better I think.
Regarding the frameless door seals, sorry for hassling you can you drop me a PM and explain how I can check these please...
But your review is very good, it is an amazing car with a very sporty driving position like you explained, low down like a Porsche. Different from a Saloon car maybe that's the bit I am struggling with as I have only had saloon cars and the last one being a F10 M5 which was amazing with all the adjustments on the seats as I had the upgraded seats. Far less adjustments on the M8 COMP GC but I can tell you its low slung and definitely feels sporty if you like that style.
I was considering a RS7 I have read the ride is softer and its on Air Suspension. But the M8 GC looks better I think.
Regarding the frameless door seals, sorry for hassling you can you drop me a PM and explain how I can check these please...
But your review is very good, it is an amazing car with a very sporty driving position like you explained, low down like a Porsche. Different from a Saloon car maybe that's the bit I am struggling with as I have only had saloon cars and the last one being a F10 M5 which was amazing with all the adjustments on the seats as I had the upgraded seats. Far less adjustments on the M8 COMP GC but I can tell you its low slung and definitely feels sporty if you like that style.
JMBMWM5 said:
M8 Grand Coupe. boot to small, car to long (parking a pain), go M5 Comp much more practical IF that's a consideration.
I.ve had 5 F90 M5's, got the very last of them (October 2023 Ultimate edition), love them.
Test drive both.
I tell you one thing though, as a owner of a M8 Comp, in terms of looks the 5 series can only dream if you ask me (But looks are subjective) The M8 is a looker and I have been very critical of the car ever since I've had it...In terms of interior once again its on a different level. Have a look at the one posted up earlier by Palmball. They look amazing and draw lots of comments.I.ve had 5 F90 M5's, got the very last of them (October 2023 Ultimate edition), love them.
Test drive both.
Once i have addressed my squeaks and rattles this car is the next level, it come with a BMW warranty which expires in December no doubt before that it will go in to them to address the interior rattles. And I am hoping the Door seals are the culprit.
Anyone know how I can address the frameless doors and clean up the seals to make sure the rattles are not coming from that area?
Edited by BM Man on Thursday 25th April 10:07
Edited by BM Man on Thursday 25th April 10:11
BM Man said:
JMBMWM5 said:
M8 Grand Coupe. boot to small, car to long (parking a pain), go M5 Comp much more practical IF that's a consideration.
I.ve had 5 F90 M5's, got the very last of them (October 2023 Ultimate edition), love them.
Test drive both.
I tell you one thing though, as a owner of a M8 Comp, in terms of looks the 5 series can only dream if you ask me (But looks are subjective) The M8 is a looker and I have been very critical of the car ever since I've had it...In terms of interior once again its on a different level. Have a look at the one posted up earlier by Palmball. They look amazing and draw lots of comments.I.ve had 5 F90 M5's, got the very last of them (October 2023 Ultimate edition), love them.
Test drive both.
Once i have addressed my squeaks and rattles this car is the next level, it come with a BMW warranty which expires in December no doubt before that it will go in to them to address the interior rattles. And I am hoping the Door seals are the culprit.
Anyone know how I can address the frameless doors and clean up the seals to make sure the rattles are not coming from that area?
Edited by BM Man on Thursday 25th April 10:07
Edited by BM Man on Thursday 25th April 10:11
Edited to add, i do like the M8 but just feel the price differential over the M5 is unjustifiable.
It’s almost certainly the frameless door seals that are the culprit, which is why there is a difference in rattles between the M8 and M5 (at least in my experience). This is not exclusive to the 8 series, I have found that generally BMW’s frameless door seals tend to be like this - my wife’s Mini is terrible and needs constant lubrication (reminds me, I really should just buy a new set of seals for more permanent quietness). Caused by goodness knows what, but my BMW dealer suggests additives in car shampoos. Strangely I never have this problem on any other brand of car.
BM Man, I can’t PM you but I sense your pain…for a cheap option to just try and identify your door seals, try this product and put is everywhere the glass touches the body (main seal round the door opening, top seal that goes right over the top of both doors and B pillar). If it works it will only give you relief for a few days - BMW dealers used to use it for this purpose but I guess stopped because it’s just doesn’t last long enough.
https://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/sonax-gummipflege-r...
If you want a more permanent solution then VW group dealers use Krytox on creaky seals - mainly convertible sunroof seals as generally their door seals are not noisy - it lasts longer, but still only a few weeks and this is pricey stuff. You’ll do a can of this just doing your M8 seals once:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333950202976
Don’t buy the one on that link…I just shared that for info. Go to a VW dealer and order part number G052172A1 and it’ll be about 30% cheaper. You can buy the product in an oily liquid which is cheaper and more robust, but that’s really for rubber-on-body noises - it’s a bit messy on windows. Like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235486520955
Once you’ve identified the door seals as the culprit, if you want them changed under warranty then be prepared for some hard work with BMW. They will want to hear the creaking (so you’ll need to wait for it to come back), they will want to use a lubricant first and you may struggle to get them all done under warranty so might be worth thinking about sharing some of the cost burden to get the dealer to work with you. If you get this far and want some help with the process, let me know.
If it’s anything else rattling then it’ll be interior plastic on plastic due to cheap(er) modern car construction methods - you can actually use that krytox spray (or simply buy WD40 DRY PTFE lubricant - note DRY - https://www.toolstation.com/wd-40-specialist-dry-p... and spray this between interior panel gaps. The door trims and centre console are especially culprits. Spraying from the top without dismantling the interior can get rid of most noises of this type but I’m especially ‘sensitive’ to this so I take stuff apart and lubricate from the back where the components are plastic welded together…when I read comments that an F90 doesn’t creak or rattle, they probably don’t to most people but they do to me. Push on the interior plastics on almost any BMW, like buttons on the centre console, and you will hear the plastic creak….doesn't bother most people, but triggers me and this cheap simple process eradicates it. Finally, I also find this dry PTFE lubricant very effective on door seals, it’s what I use on my wife’s Mini, but it’s not the official product that dealer use like the Gummifledge and Krytox.
Hope that helps.
As for comparisons between M5 and M8, I do think this really is a moot comparison. Totally different propositions - as I say it was a surprise to me how differently they drive dynamically and how different they feel due to things like how you’re positioned in the car.
If you need the boot practicality of an M5 you’re never going to buy an M8…if that’s less important and want the sportier feeling car to drive then the M8 might be the better car for you. Price is also kind of a non issue as nobody pays list price for either and discounts massively reduce the price differential….but even then, because the M8 is materially different then it might be worth a premium if that’s what you’re after. Used however, and the price difference almost entirely goes away - when I bought mine back in January, an approved used 21-22 M5 Ultimate pack (c.10k miles) was £65-70k ish, my 2022 M8 with 6k miles was £75k (both prices were main dealers and after a bit of haggling)… the price differential is almost immaterial at that level and both represent amazing value / catastrophic depreciation from new, especially the M8 (arguably making it the better value used).
BM Man, I can’t PM you but I sense your pain…for a cheap option to just try and identify your door seals, try this product and put is everywhere the glass touches the body (main seal round the door opening, top seal that goes right over the top of both doors and B pillar). If it works it will only give you relief for a few days - BMW dealers used to use it for this purpose but I guess stopped because it’s just doesn’t last long enough.
https://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/sonax-gummipflege-r...
If you want a more permanent solution then VW group dealers use Krytox on creaky seals - mainly convertible sunroof seals as generally their door seals are not noisy - it lasts longer, but still only a few weeks and this is pricey stuff. You’ll do a can of this just doing your M8 seals once:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333950202976
Don’t buy the one on that link…I just shared that for info. Go to a VW dealer and order part number G052172A1 and it’ll be about 30% cheaper. You can buy the product in an oily liquid which is cheaper and more robust, but that’s really for rubber-on-body noises - it’s a bit messy on windows. Like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235486520955
Once you’ve identified the door seals as the culprit, if you want them changed under warranty then be prepared for some hard work with BMW. They will want to hear the creaking (so you’ll need to wait for it to come back), they will want to use a lubricant first and you may struggle to get them all done under warranty so might be worth thinking about sharing some of the cost burden to get the dealer to work with you. If you get this far and want some help with the process, let me know.
If it’s anything else rattling then it’ll be interior plastic on plastic due to cheap(er) modern car construction methods - you can actually use that krytox spray (or simply buy WD40 DRY PTFE lubricant - note DRY - https://www.toolstation.com/wd-40-specialist-dry-p... and spray this between interior panel gaps. The door trims and centre console are especially culprits. Spraying from the top without dismantling the interior can get rid of most noises of this type but I’m especially ‘sensitive’
to this so I take stuff apart and lubricate from the back where the components are plastic welded together…when I read comments that an F90 doesn’t creak or rattle, they probably don’t to most people but they do to me. Push on the interior plastics on almost any BMW, like buttons on the centre console, and you will hear the plastic creak….doesn't bother most people, but triggers me and this cheap simple process eradicates it. Finally, I also find this dry PTFE lubricant very effective on door seals, it’s what I use on my wife’s Mini, but it’s not the official product that dealer use like the Gummifledge and Krytox.Hope that helps.
As for comparisons between M5 and M8, I do think this really is a moot comparison. Totally different propositions - as I say it was a surprise to me how differently they drive dynamically and how different they feel due to things like how you’re positioned in the car.
If you need the boot practicality of an M5 you’re never going to buy an M8…if that’s less important and want the sportier feeling car to drive then the M8 might be the better car for you. Price is also kind of a non issue as nobody pays list price for either and discounts massively reduce the price differential….but even then, because the M8 is materially different then it might be worth a premium if that’s what you’re after. Used however, and the price difference almost entirely goes away - when I bought mine back in January, an approved used 21-22 M5 Ultimate pack (c.10k miles) was £65-70k ish, my 2022 M8 with 6k miles was £75k (both prices were main dealers and after a bit of haggling)… the price differential is almost immaterial at that level and both represent amazing value / catastrophic depreciation from new, especially the M8 (arguably making it the better value used).
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff