Current model M4

[Forester1965]

E90_M3Ross said:

The auto is good, although not as engaging as DCT when on it and using the paddles, but better than DCT as an auto.

I see people say that, but I'm never quite sure what they mean?

I've had an auto M140 and diesel 3 series with the ZF8, various Volvos with the Aisin 8, a current DSG and previously an M3 (F80) with the DCT. The DCT changed gears every bit as smoothly as the regular autos, but with the advantage the throttle response (i.e. from throttle through tx to engine, rather than as a measure of engine response) was better. It meant you needed to be less hamfisted than with the autos, but with better low-speed minute control. Best of all worlds as far as I could see it.

I haven't driven a current Mx so can't compare that one.

[cerb4.5lee]

Forester1965 said:

E90_M3Ross said:

The auto is good, although not as engaging as DCT when on it and using the paddles, but better than DCT as an auto.

I see people say that, but I'm never quite sure what they mean?

I've had an auto M140 and diesel 3 series with the ZF8, various Volvos with the Aisin 8, a current DSG and previously an M3 (F80) with the DCT. The DCT changed gears every bit as smoothly as the regular autos, but with the advantage the throttle response (i.e. from throttle through tx to engine, rather than as a measure of engine response) was better. It meant you needed to be less hamfisted than with the autos, but with better low-speed minute control. Best of all worlds as far as I could see it.

I haven't driven a current Mx so can't compare that one.

For me the ZF8 does smooth better than the DCT(especially at low revs and moving slowly forwards or backwards), however I find the DCT a far better gearbox for when you're pushing on a bit though.

[E90_M3Ross]

Forester1965 said:

E90_M3Ross said:

The auto is good, although not as engaging as DCT when on it and using the paddles, but better than DCT as an auto.

I see people say that, but I'm never quite sure what they mean?

I've had an auto M140 and diesel 3 series with the ZF8, various Volvos with the Aisin 8, a current DSG and previously an M3 (F80) with the DCT. The DCT changed gears every bit as smoothly as the regular autos, but with the advantage the throttle response (i.e. from throttle through tx to engine, rather than as a measure of engine response) was better. It meant you needed to be less hamfisted than with the autos, but with better low-speed minute control. Best of all worlds as far as I could see it.

I haven't driven a current Mx so can't compare that one.

The ZF is smoother to engage, moving off in first or reverse, for example. But really, I think DCT is fine.

[Forester1965]

I'm guessing we're probably agreeing; the torque converter autos respond less 'directly' to throttle movements when setting off/parking speed manoeuvring. There's that buffer. Once moving my experience of the DCT is it's every bit as smooth as the autos. It was never an issue for me using the M3 on the daily commute.

[E90_M3Ross]

Forester1965 said:

I'm guessing we're probably agreeing; the torque converter autos respond less 'directly' to throttle movements when setting off/parking speed manoeuvring. There's that buffer. Once moving my experience of the DCT is it's every bit as smooth as the autos. It was never an issue for me using the M3 on the daily commute.

Yep, I agree

[liner33]

I think most people that drove the rwd G8X back to back with a F8x dct were amazed at how planted they are in comparison , a lot of that credit lies with the gearbox , the dct would often unsettle the car when driving hard and upshifting, the faster shifts of the dct don't really offer an advantage imo it's just that some prefer jerky shifts

There were a lot of good reasons BMW went with a ZF8 instead of DCT

1) The DCT wasn't rated for 500hp+
2) The DCT wasn't suited to 4wd or electric motor additions
3) The ZF8 is more fuel efficient
4) The ZF8 is cheaper to produce
5) The ZF8 is more reliable
6) The ZF8 is more suited to start/stop applications and town/traffic use

[E90_M3Ross]

liner33 said:

I think most people that drove the rwd G8X back to back with a F8x dct were amazed at how planted they are in comparison , a lot of that credit lies with the gearbox , the dct would often unsettle the car when driving hard and upshifting, the faster shifts of the dct don't really offer an advantage imo it's just that some prefer jerky shifts

There were a lot of good reasons BMW went with a ZF8 instead of DCT

1) The DCT wasn't rated for 500hp+
2) The DCT wasn't suited to 4wd or electric motor additions
3) The ZF8 is more fuel efficient
4) The ZF8 is cheaper to produce
5) The ZF8 is more reliable
6) The ZF8 is more suited to start/stop applications and town/traffic use

1 - was used in the 550bhp M5 and M6...

[liner33]

E90_M3Ross said:

1 - was used in the 550bhp M5 and M6...

and was awful in both

[Forester1965]

Would've thought it was torque rather than power limited.

[E90_M3Ross]

liner33 said:

E90_M3Ross said:

1 - was used in the 550bhp M5 and M6...

and was awful in both

That wasn't my point

[liner33]

E90_M3Ross said:

That wasn't my point

You referenced a old gearbox no longer used by BMW and never used in the M3 , I was referring to the DCT that was actually used in the F-series