Hartge Z3 M Coupé 5.0 V8 the one...
Discussion
I'm not so often on PH anymore but a passenger shot this nice video, only the sound is poor sadly...
http://www.vimeo.com/1455367
GTRene
http://www.vimeo.com/1455367
GTRene
Part 1
Mystery finally solved,
Back in 02-2007 when I bought my Hartge Z3 (Z47) coupe 5.0 and imported it from another country, a Dutch Hartge dealer told me (I asked him how many originals are there and he asked Hartge Germany) there are tree Hartge's Z3 coupe, a 3.5 (I-6) and a 4.7 V8 and a 5.0 V8, also there are two Z3 roadsters 4.7 V8 (one of those crashed back in 2008)
I thought oke, so there is one Hartge Z3 coupe 5.0 in the world, but I never heard or saw the 3.5 and 4.7 which I did know they have to exist, made back before the year 2000.
Since then I searched a lot to get more history, I already had a BMW car magazine dated 02-2002 where my 5.0 Hartge was reported in in all his glory but I tried to find more, as nobody seems to know more or want to say more about the car (difficult questions I guess) I only knew (my Dutch Hartge dealer did a search on the old BMW Z3 M coupe chassis-number) that the car started life as a metallic Black car bought by Herbert Hartge himself.
Anyway, I thought then, hm...that makes sense I found on the German Hartge website picture's from a black Z3 M coupe that looks a lot like my car (it is) I was thinking there are not tree cars, there is just one which was the base for those tree but I could not really proof that.
My car was bought new by Herbert Hartge back in 1998 and was the basis for their tuning and style shows and car magazine's to show the world what they can do and offer for your Z3 M coupe.
So I thought, hey it started with a 3.2 and then the car was stripped and sprayed completely in Titan Silver metallic the Hartge (family) color, and then they planted the special made 4.7 V8 under the bonnet (350hp) and when time went one they replace that one for the 5.0 from today back in 2001 and then they put the car as a real Hartge on the road (so in its today form its made in 2001 and came on the road as such but with a 1998 base car) the time before that it was a prototype/show-car.
Yesterday I discovered also one thing more and now the mystery is solved (have some more different car magazines now), there is not only just one Hartge Z3 (Z47) coupe 5.0 in the whole world but also, the cars above mentioned are all one, all mine...my car was the base that changed overtime evolved into the 5.0, Hartge's personal car. (I have all papers ofcorse to proof and back that up also you can see from the magazine's the numberplates on the black and early zilver car)
Mystery solved.
--1998> Car started life as a black Z3 M coupe 1998 with 321ps 3.2 engine.
--1998> then tuned and enlarged engine to 3.5 with 350ps (car still black but changed interior color original BMW though)
--1999> then totally stripped the car bar naked and sprayed it in and out in their Hartge color Titan Silver metallic and changed a lot other things the most important
the engine became a big 4.7 V8 with 350ps but more torque, and the special handmade lower front-bumper to give the oil-cooler and engine more cooling.
--2001> the year they enlarged the 4.7 into the present 5.0 V8 also changed all the suspension bushings and the special made hood came on to get
a better airflow under the bonnet when you drive on a track, the car's testing ground was the famous Nurburgring (the green hell)
So there you have it, mystery solved with magazine's to back it up, yesterday I thought that black 3.5 in that 1998 car magazine could be mine...I checked the numberplate with the magazine out 1999 when the 4.7 was in, and I had a match.
With the new 5.0 and other stuff they ended the prototype program and put it on the road as the one and only Hartge Z3 (Z47)coupe 5.0 in 2001
The production of Hartge parts is carried out either in the form of small, exclusive series or industrial manufacturing by leading components suppliers.
In the following writings here I post the magazine's which I have with the story of my car which is also for sale, but most people don't know the story, not even dealers even when my/this car was their product picture for all those years on their websites and their own parts magazine's .
Some Hartge info in general:
Herbert Hartge had been involved with cars since his youth and from 1969 to 1983 was a successful racing driver with Formula V racing and touring cars, primarily BMWs
The beginnings of the company go back to 1971 when Herbert Hartge KG was founded in the German district town of Merzig to sell and repair BMW automobiles.
In 1974, the company moved to its current location in Beckingen. The Hartge premises cover some 16,000 square metres, of which around 5,000 are built on.
A 2,000 square metre warehouse ensures an optimum supply of Hartge parts for the market.
At Hartge, the long tuning tradition focuses on powerful engines. The range is unparalleled: from 2.1 litres for the 3 series, 5.0 litres for the 3 series (E36), 3 series (E46) as well as for the Compact, Z3 and X5. For the 7 and 8 series there is a 5.0 litres. The styling of Hartge aerodynamic parts and aluminium wheels is consciously restrained and the emphasis on engineering and function.
The production of Hartge parts is carried out either in the form of small, exclusive series or industrial manufacturing by leading components suppliers.
Herbert Hartge has been involved with cars since his youth. From 1969 to 1983, he was a successful racing driver at home and abroad, firstly in Formula V racing cars and then in touring cars, primarily BMWs, VWs and Fords.
Hence, the Hartge company profits from the motor-racing experience of the founder, as well as that of his entire staff. Then as now, the focus of the company's activities is on increasing the performance of BMW cars.
Today, Hartge products are well-known throughout the world, especially the Hartge wheel with its characteristic 11-spoke design, which has developed into a corporate trade mark.
The Hartge product range represents one of the biggest assortments for almost all BMW models. In Germany and abroad, Hartge products are sold either via dealers or direct.
or the development of high-performance engines, Hartge has installed its own fully automatic engine test bench of the kind usually only operated by major automobile manufacturers.
This means that Hartge can carry out all long-distance and endurance tests necessary in the development phase of an engine.
Hartge has been approved by the German Motor Vehicle Authority (KBA) as an automobile manufacturer since 1985.
(source: Hartge)
next some carmagazines I found to see that in pictures and writing to share.
Part 2
It started as prototype showcar for Hartge as the black car, here in a magazine Autobild November 1998
Then in 1999 they totally stripped the car and build it up with their 4.7 V8, notice the sepcial bumper which was needed to cool the oilcooler better.
BMW Car September 1999
Part 3
To end the prototype/showcar with their 5.0 V8 and put it as that on the road late 2001 still on Herbert Hartge's name to change hands later in 2002
TBMW february 2002
GTRene
Mystery finally solved,
Back in 02-2007 when I bought my Hartge Z3 (Z47) coupe 5.0 and imported it from another country, a Dutch Hartge dealer told me (I asked him how many originals are there and he asked Hartge Germany) there are tree Hartge's Z3 coupe, a 3.5 (I-6) and a 4.7 V8 and a 5.0 V8, also there are two Z3 roadsters 4.7 V8 (one of those crashed back in 2008)
I thought oke, so there is one Hartge Z3 coupe 5.0 in the world, but I never heard or saw the 3.5 and 4.7 which I did know they have to exist, made back before the year 2000.
Since then I searched a lot to get more history, I already had a BMW car magazine dated 02-2002 where my 5.0 Hartge was reported in in all his glory but I tried to find more, as nobody seems to know more or want to say more about the car (difficult questions I guess) I only knew (my Dutch Hartge dealer did a search on the old BMW Z3 M coupe chassis-number) that the car started life as a metallic Black car bought by Herbert Hartge himself.
Anyway, I thought then, hm...that makes sense I found on the German Hartge website picture's from a black Z3 M coupe that looks a lot like my car (it is) I was thinking there are not tree cars, there is just one which was the base for those tree but I could not really proof that.
My car was bought new by Herbert Hartge back in 1998 and was the basis for their tuning and style shows and car magazine's to show the world what they can do and offer for your Z3 M coupe.
So I thought, hey it started with a 3.2 and then the car was stripped and sprayed completely in Titan Silver metallic the Hartge (family) color, and then they planted the special made 4.7 V8 under the bonnet (350hp) and when time went one they replace that one for the 5.0 from today back in 2001 and then they put the car as a real Hartge on the road (so in its today form its made in 2001 and came on the road as such but with a 1998 base car) the time before that it was a prototype/show-car.
Yesterday I discovered also one thing more and now the mystery is solved (have some more different car magazines now), there is not only just one Hartge Z3 (Z47) coupe 5.0 in the whole world but also, the cars above mentioned are all one, all mine...my car was the base that changed overtime evolved into the 5.0, Hartge's personal car. (I have all papers ofcorse to proof and back that up also you can see from the magazine's the numberplates on the black and early zilver car)
Mystery solved.
--1998> Car started life as a black Z3 M coupe 1998 with 321ps 3.2 engine.
--1998> then tuned and enlarged engine to 3.5 with 350ps (car still black but changed interior color original BMW though)
--1999> then totally stripped the car bar naked and sprayed it in and out in their Hartge color Titan Silver metallic and changed a lot other things the most important
the engine became a big 4.7 V8 with 350ps but more torque, and the special handmade lower front-bumper to give the oil-cooler and engine more cooling.
--2001> the year they enlarged the 4.7 into the present 5.0 V8 also changed all the suspension bushings and the special made hood came on to get
a better airflow under the bonnet when you drive on a track, the car's testing ground was the famous Nurburgring (the green hell)
So there you have it, mystery solved with magazine's to back it up, yesterday I thought that black 3.5 in that 1998 car magazine could be mine...I checked the numberplate with the magazine out 1999 when the 4.7 was in, and I had a match.
With the new 5.0 and other stuff they ended the prototype program and put it on the road as the one and only Hartge Z3 (Z47)coupe 5.0 in 2001
The production of Hartge parts is carried out either in the form of small, exclusive series or industrial manufacturing by leading components suppliers.
In the following writings here I post the magazine's which I have with the story of my car which is also for sale, but most people don't know the story, not even dealers even when my/this car was their product picture for all those years on their websites and their own parts magazine's .
Some Hartge info in general:
Herbert Hartge had been involved with cars since his youth and from 1969 to 1983 was a successful racing driver with Formula V racing and touring cars, primarily BMWs
The beginnings of the company go back to 1971 when Herbert Hartge KG was founded in the German district town of Merzig to sell and repair BMW automobiles.
In 1974, the company moved to its current location in Beckingen. The Hartge premises cover some 16,000 square metres, of which around 5,000 are built on.
A 2,000 square metre warehouse ensures an optimum supply of Hartge parts for the market.
At Hartge, the long tuning tradition focuses on powerful engines. The range is unparalleled: from 2.1 litres for the 3 series, 5.0 litres for the 3 series (E36), 3 series (E46) as well as for the Compact, Z3 and X5. For the 7 and 8 series there is a 5.0 litres. The styling of Hartge aerodynamic parts and aluminium wheels is consciously restrained and the emphasis on engineering and function.
The production of Hartge parts is carried out either in the form of small, exclusive series or industrial manufacturing by leading components suppliers.
Herbert Hartge has been involved with cars since his youth. From 1969 to 1983, he was a successful racing driver at home and abroad, firstly in Formula V racing cars and then in touring cars, primarily BMWs, VWs and Fords.
Hence, the Hartge company profits from the motor-racing experience of the founder, as well as that of his entire staff. Then as now, the focus of the company's activities is on increasing the performance of BMW cars.
Today, Hartge products are well-known throughout the world, especially the Hartge wheel with its characteristic 11-spoke design, which has developed into a corporate trade mark.
The Hartge product range represents one of the biggest assortments for almost all BMW models. In Germany and abroad, Hartge products are sold either via dealers or direct.
or the development of high-performance engines, Hartge has installed its own fully automatic engine test bench of the kind usually only operated by major automobile manufacturers.
This means that Hartge can carry out all long-distance and endurance tests necessary in the development phase of an engine.
Hartge has been approved by the German Motor Vehicle Authority (KBA) as an automobile manufacturer since 1985.
(source: Hartge)
next some carmagazines I found to see that in pictures and writing to share.
Part 2
It started as prototype showcar for Hartge as the black car, here in a magazine Autobild November 1998
Then in 1999 they totally stripped the car and build it up with their 4.7 V8, notice the sepcial bumper which was needed to cool the oilcooler better.
BMW Car September 1999
Part 3
To end the prototype/showcar with their 5.0 V8 and put it as that on the road late 2001 still on Herbert Hartge's name to change hands later in 2002
TBMW february 2002
GTRene
Edited by GTRene on Friday 28th January 19:04
Today a pleasant surprise when I opened the box where the car computer is hidden from my one off Hartge Z3 (Z47) coupe 5.0 (which is for sale BTW)
I wanted to let a BMW dealer lower down rpm a bit, its to high with about 1.000rpm in idle? try to get it to 700rpm.
but because its heavily changed by Hartge that basis M62b44 into 5.0 with many modifications and Alpina parts (saw some E36 B8 Alpina items too), its difficult to get in the computer and you have to know date and engine type and engine management Siemens or Bosch etc...
So i thought, before I go to the dealer to see if they can go in the service part and lower rpm a bit, I check what type is in...
first you come across some warnings that you may not change the mappings because of the special, for that engine type computer.
then I lift of that part and took the engine computer out (without disconnecting) to see what make/type it is.
its a Bosch but there were some stickers on it...saying please do not alter engine mapping...and on top some old tape with writing from ascari also saying rpm is a bit to high? and some other tech stuff ;-) I thought...ascari?
So I turned the box to see if there is more tape on the box, and on the other side was this
That's the latest engine that came in the Ascari Ecosse only 17 made (totall incl racers) and only 3 with this engine.
So that makes the story of my special one off Hartge even more special, it share's the engine with the last Ascari Ecosse, most of the 17 Ascari Ecosse where made with Hartge's 4.7 and that one made 400hp.
That's why my car has more power then the series 5.0 that Hartge sold based on a newer type M62B44.
Mine and so Ascari's engine is based on the 1997<>1998 type engine without vanos and a very high working temp.
I wanted to let a BMW dealer lower down rpm a bit, its to high with about 1.000rpm in idle? try to get it to 700rpm.
but because its heavily changed by Hartge that basis M62b44 into 5.0 with many modifications and Alpina parts (saw some E36 B8 Alpina items too), its difficult to get in the computer and you have to know date and engine type and engine management Siemens or Bosch etc...
So i thought, before I go to the dealer to see if they can go in the service part and lower rpm a bit, I check what type is in...
first you come across some warnings that you may not change the mappings because of the special, for that engine type computer.
then I lift of that part and took the engine computer out (without disconnecting) to see what make/type it is.
its a Bosch but there were some stickers on it...saying please do not alter engine mapping...and on top some old tape with writing from ascari also saying rpm is a bit to high? and some other tech stuff ;-) I thought...ascari?
So I turned the box to see if there is more tape on the box, and on the other side was this
That's the latest engine that came in the Ascari Ecosse only 17 made (totall incl racers) and only 3 with this engine.
So that makes the story of my special one off Hartge even more special, it share's the engine with the last Ascari Ecosse, most of the 17 Ascari Ecosse where made with Hartge's 4.7 and that one made 400hp.
That's why my car has more power then the series 5.0 that Hartge sold based on a newer type M62B44.
Mine and so Ascari's engine is based on the 1997<>1998 type engine without vanos and a very high working temp.
wiki said:
Bigger changes were found in the engine bay where the original Detroit muscle was replaced by a BMW sourced V8 engine. Not satisfied with the stock performance, the V8s were sent to specialists Hartge for upgrades before being installed in the Ascari. Initially the BMW/Hartge unit displaced 4.4 litre and produced a healthy 300 bhp. Shortly after the road car's launch a larger, 4.7 version litre became available which put out an additional 100 horses. The engine was mated to a ZF supplied five-speed gearbox.
They increased the engine's capacity from 4.4 to 5 litres
They increased the engine's capacity from 4.4 to 5 litres
Edited by GTRene on Monday 21st January 15:48
dinkel said:
Nice story there Rene.
thx Dink, it was a real surprise to me, and makes the story more complete and interesting, I also send a mail to Ascari to their info link 
but I don't think it will reach Klaas himself,so I don't know if they gonna react, would be nice to here from Klaas himself about that engine though.
cheers.
I already got a kind mail back from Ascari, it was written in Dutch (Dutch guy to I guess)
and with much info about the Ascari Ecosse and answers for what I was wondering about, so I'm happy with it.
in short he wrote (if I can translate it a bit from NL to English with the computer)
Thank for you e-mail and the interest in Ascari. My name is Rxxx. Txxxx.. and I work for Ascari as from 2001
I have much cooperated with people who worked for the Ecosse. The last 3 cars are with the Hartge 5 L engine(same as mine). Last one build in 2000, in Blandford with sequential acceleration barge and still in the possession of Ascari (not for sale).
The existence of 10 Ecosses has been confessed at fabriek.1 in Australia, 1 in the US with US engine and it are only restored for the circuit use, 1 in the Netherlands, and the rest in Engeland.De original racecar driver which was used in the British GT at the moment Simpson Motorsport in the UK.De car in the Netherlands is only LHD Ecosse build, this car has standard BMW engine and 6 an acceleration ZF hand barge. This acceleration barge the only hand 6 barge has been used in Ecosse.De colour is dark greenness and lives in Drenthe.
The engine management system for all Hartge engines were Bosh and came directly of Hartge themselves.
The first ECU sent to Ascari had the problem of too high rpm idle. THE ECU had been returned and another was send back.
It sees to that Hartge have used it in their own project. I recognise the grapheme on you ECU and it was in a Ascaris hands.
Our engines have come always directly of Hartge and have never been sent back.
The factory in United Kingdom has been closed previous year but KZ1 the race car becomes now build in Spain on the Ascari race Resort.De street car of KZ1 only becomes on application made. I frequently seen your car on sale on Pistonheads.In United Kingdom I had, as it happens, myself a Z3MCoupe with the S50 engine in Estoril blue. A fantastic car. Unfortunately previous year sold with the departure to Spanje.I hope that I could help with your questions.
Kind regards, Rxxx..
Rxxx. Txxx... (I covered his name for privacy reasons)
Assistant Production manager
So I'm happy with the info, thanks Rigor from Ascari.
and with much info about the Ascari Ecosse and answers for what I was wondering about, so I'm happy with it.
in short he wrote (if I can translate it a bit from NL to English with the computer)
Thank for you e-mail and the interest in Ascari. My name is Rxxx. Txxxx.. and I work for Ascari as from 2001
I have much cooperated with people who worked for the Ecosse. The last 3 cars are with the Hartge 5 L engine(same as mine). Last one build in 2000, in Blandford with sequential acceleration barge and still in the possession of Ascari (not for sale).
The existence of 10 Ecosses has been confessed at fabriek.1 in Australia, 1 in the US with US engine and it are only restored for the circuit use, 1 in the Netherlands, and the rest in Engeland.De original racecar driver which was used in the British GT at the moment Simpson Motorsport in the UK.De car in the Netherlands is only LHD Ecosse build, this car has standard BMW engine and 6 an acceleration ZF hand barge. This acceleration barge the only hand 6 barge has been used in Ecosse.De colour is dark greenness and lives in Drenthe.
The engine management system for all Hartge engines were Bosh and came directly of Hartge themselves.
The first ECU sent to Ascari had the problem of too high rpm idle. THE ECU had been returned and another was send back.
It sees to that Hartge have used it in their own project. I recognise the grapheme on you ECU and it was in a Ascaris hands.
Our engines have come always directly of Hartge and have never been sent back.
The factory in United Kingdom has been closed previous year but KZ1 the race car becomes now build in Spain on the Ascari race Resort.De street car of KZ1 only becomes on application made. I frequently seen your car on sale on Pistonheads.In United Kingdom I had, as it happens, myself a Z3MCoupe with the S50 engine in Estoril blue. A fantastic car. Unfortunately previous year sold with the departure to Spanje.I hope that I could help with your questions.
Kind regards, Rxxx..
Rxxx. Txxx... (I covered his name for privacy reasons)
Assistant Production manager
So I'm happy with the info, thanks Rigor from Ascari.
Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 17th March 10:18
darreni said:
C'mon Rene, are you going to tell how much you are asking?
the current pound is to low compared to the euro, so its to expensive I guess for UK buyers or even US buyers cause of the low dollar.And my car is to "unknown" and people think its a home build bmw with some Hartge stuff, but it is not,its a original one off Hartge Z3 coupe with very special stuff ofcorse the engine is too which was made for the Ascari Ecosse so it seems, and also for this one off car.
But I dropped the price with 10.000,-euro compared with last year
even when I invested more in it.Its a lovely car but its also nice to try something else so before I can I have to sell it.
its now 65.000 euro, still a lot, but then you have the only one in the world, comes with all paperwork and documents and history.
So the rarest car you can get
but still relative easy to maintain and keeps it worth over the years! so its cheap cheers
GTRene
some more pictures.
its looks like an heavy engine, but fact is that it is some kilos lighter then the S50B32 engine, also shorter and more between the wheels (further back) wich explains the perfect 50/50 balance.
ofcorse without the big plastic covers it looks much smaller/lower
incl 3/4 filled petrol tank it weights 1390kg on the scale.
its looks like an heavy engine, but fact is that it is some kilos lighter then the S50B32 engine, also shorter and more between the wheels (further back) wich explains the perfect 50/50 balance.
ofcorse without the big plastic covers it looks much smaller/lower
incl 3/4 filled petrol tank it weights 1390kg on the scale.
a member of our car-forum just dropped a video on YouTube where my car is in too
that video was from 2010 when we did a fast Germany highway run 600km trip on unlimited speed highway.
did not saw this before, mine is loudest me thinks...(start after 23sec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df5PVcHQUGY&fea...
have fun
that video was from 2010 when we did a fast Germany highway run 600km trip on unlimited speed highway.
did not saw this before, mine is loudest me thinks...(start after 23sec)
Tom said:
Some extreme cars fly by on the German autobahn, A BMW M5 e60, a Corvette Zo6 a BMW M3 3.2 E36 coupe and the one and only Hartge Z3 coupe V8
best put it on big-screen (to read the underline also) and open u the speakers...I did not have a free road thats why I shift-up another gear at the end, we did go very fast most times, but only where it was possible, cause safety for other road-users came first.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df5PVcHQUGY&fea...
have fun
Broccers said:
Still for sale? :-)
yes, still for sale...most think that its just a BMW with some tuning stuff.
but its a real Hartge with Hartge chassis-code (no more bmw)
and there's only one,
but then a lot people with cars name there car special and one off when they only changed the wheels or so...
when mine is a real genuine one off real Hartge, not only Hartge parts/tuning but a complete car and no bmw in the documents but only Hartge.
so thats why, then people think its way to expensive, but try to buy a car with that history and rarity and a real one off with that horsepower, to buy for that price...there is not one.
so maybe in 20 years or so It gets the worthy?
anyway, I enjoy it every week when I use it to make a drive, it drive's superb and when you start it you get a grin on your face
so its not a problem i still own it ;-)
only when you want to try something else I need the money...
or try to find a nice good looking rich girl , then I keep it and buy some other cars too
Cheburator mk2 said:
I know it is a one off, but with the risk of being flamed here, I think it is a touch expensive. The Z3MC in my garage is equally unique, faster and also made by a well known German tuner, oh and it won its class in the Hockenheim Tuner Grand Prix on its debut. With the risk of shooting myself in the foot when I come to sell one day - I paid a lot less in Germany to buy the car...
Tis car is not from the tuner like yours...Hartge is besides a tuner also a small manufacturer (they only make/made a few own cars, but many cars also bin tuned by Hartge but still named BMW but owners say i have a Hartge haha), and their is the difference, your car is a BMW where mine isa genuine Hartge (who is besides a car-tuner also a manufacturer)
so its not a tuned beemer but a real Hartge, and that makes the difference ;-)
but many don't understand that sadly.
it has not a BMW chassiscode, were I think your car still has ;-)
Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 9th February 14:41
A nice soundclip since I replaced the old sportcats, but those had also a little (half) mufler inside from wich I did not know...anyways, now I have 2 new 200cpsi sportcats without that mufler thing.
it sounds like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Fct9_A3_s
I also made 2 short movies to see how the car is now (its for sale)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74TCNXaYLY0&fea...
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klQxGAV5bgo&fea...
and here I tested my new tires the sportcontact 5P exelent grip, just floor the pedal and no wheelspin, so no hard clutchdrop or high rpm start and still in around 4.5sec to 100km/h
it can go from 100km/h to 200km/h in just 8.1sec
so my "old" Hartge Z3 feels still pretty alive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPTFVY4tbc&fea...
have fun
it sounds like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Fct9_A3_s
I also made 2 short movies to see how the car is now (its for sale)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74TCNXaYLY0&fea...
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klQxGAV5bgo&fea...
and here I tested my new tires the sportcontact 5P exelent grip, just floor the pedal and no wheelspin, so no hard clutchdrop or high rpm start and still in around 4.5sec to 100km/h
it can go from 100km/h to 200km/h in just 8.1sec
so my "old" Hartge Z3 feels still pretty alive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPTFVY4tbc&fea...
have fun
MartiniBianco said:
If you read French, I can scan an article about your car from when it had the 4.7L.
I have one about the V8 roadster well.
Hi Martini, sadly I can not read French but I would love to see that article, you can upload it in this thread if you like I have one about the V8 roadster well.
Or mail it to me thats also possible, anyhow I would love to see it, it was very hard to get info and articles and documents of this one ever made Hartge Z3 coupe 5.0 with that strange history first it came in black newly bought by Herbert hartge wich they tuned into a 3.5 wich then later stripped down naked and painted in the Hartge color Titansilber metallic when it got the special 4.7 V8, on that moment they also made the same engine for its sister car the Ascari Ecosse 4.7 wich later also got this engine the 5.0 V8 (its not the same 5.0L engine as they sold to customers) so yes its special, but I really have to let it go early next year, first have to finish some things.
Sadly I can not pay for it anymore and it needs a new home!
wow 
nice job, I really like it thanks Martini.
I print it out and comes in my collection about the Hartge Z3 coupe.
Also nice to see it here with the earlier 4.7 engine still with the smaller standard M coupe cooler and standard M coupe bumper and engine-hood.
It is indeed my car before Hartge dropped in their then biggest engine the 5.0 wich needed more cooling and had some more hp thats why they added also a bigger cooler and special bumper with bigger inlets and lower so the oil-cooler got more air too.
and ofcorse the special Kevlar/grp engine-hood with all the vents.
This makes my info more complete, so thanks.
edited for the story of the Hartge Z47 (Z3 coupe 5.0) link>>
a 9 mb pdf file, the one and only is now also for sale,
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=20729D492A2D...
If anyone has even more magazine copy's about my car wich is not already in my pdf file, please send me a copy
nice job, I really like it thanks Martini.
I print it out and comes in my collection about the Hartge Z3 coupe.
Also nice to see it here with the earlier 4.7 engine still with the smaller standard M coupe cooler and standard M coupe bumper and engine-hood.
It is indeed my car before Hartge dropped in their then biggest engine the 5.0 wich needed more cooling and had some more hp
thats why they added also a bigger cooler and special bumper with bigger inlets and lower so the oil-cooler got more air too.and ofcorse the special Kevlar/grp engine-hood with all the vents.
This makes my info more complete, so thanks.
edited for the story of the Hartge Z47 (Z3 coupe 5.0) link>>
a 9 mb pdf file, the one and only is now also for sale,
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=20729D492A2D...
If anyone has even more magazine copy's about my car wich is not already in my pdf file, please send me a copy
Edited by GTRene on Sunday 10th June 19:48
Hi Dinkel, I can post some, I'm not so active anymore on posting around my car, although I changed en renewed a lot last/past year, like new and bigger brakes all around and new coilovers with adjustable camber plates and new wheels just to change it for a while, although I just put the other original wheels under again last week.
So cleaned the new ones and stored upstairs for next summer.
Those pictures are made with my 5mp phone so not that good quality.
So cleaned the new ones and stored upstairs for next summer.
Those pictures are made with my 5mp phone so not that good quality.
Edited by GTRene on Friday 19th December 14:56
dinkel said:
So ... a keeper?
yes and no, yes because I love it and no because I also like other cars but it don't have to go, I drive only 2.000km per year with it so not that costly to keep
and the km stay low.
I'm in no hurry though, its every-time a pleasure when you step in and start the engine and go for a drive,
it really fits me.
I only have it for sale on some free to ad websites
when someone buys it its ok, when I keep it its ok too.next year my price will go up, so I can keep it longer
GrahamO said:
I love this car very much and found this thread very interesting. Amazing car with a very cool story
But I am very sad to see all the videos you posted at various times in the thread are deleted? Is there any reason for this? It is very cool to read about it and see pictures... but much cooler to see videos I think. It feels more real like that, as if I am watching it in person. Maybe you will reconsider and upload some videos of it? It is a very cool car and even if you sell it I think the world deserves to see and experience the car
Thanks Graham, I closed the you-tube account with my car (the Hartge), with some lovely video's, but still I closed it after miss-use by some bad and wrong lawyer making me look bad/racer and did me much wrong.But I am very sad to see all the videos you posted at various times in the thread are deleted? Is there any reason for this? It is very cool to read about it and see pictures... but much cooler to see videos I think. It feels more real like that, as if I am watching it in person. Maybe you will reconsider and upload some videos of it? It is a very cool car and even if you sell it I think the world deserves to see and experience the car
for example a video posted back in 2007 when I tested shortly the high speed in Germany very legally on such free autobahn over there, and in 2011 he used that 2007 video against me, making me look bad while I did nothing wrong! it is and was aloud on that autobahn, but still and also more nonsense, I still get angry of the much wrongdoing those crooked insurance people did to me!!
So that when I decided to close that channel down because of such bad people which cost me a lot and did me much injustice.
Sadly there are also some video's online which are not that correct (timeline looks), some copy a video and upload it again so it looks as I drove there 'yesterday' so to speak, but those video's are mostly more in the begin time I've owned the car.
But thats how it can go with the Internet, maybe one day I post some new, have many new parts on the car and the car still drives very lovely, although I don't drive that much, maybe max 2.000km per year, but that keeps the km/mileage low for the car and I keep it in great condition, every drive once I'm in the car and start it, its a pleasure and 'connected' or how you name such.
@Dinkel, I guess you have the answer there too
longintheleg said:
What a car and thanks for sharing. 
Could you possibly let me know the make and model of the alloys please?
Thanks.
Thanks, because I have the car that long, I wanted some change for a while, and I also wanted smaller diameter (outline) tire, Could you possibly let me know the make and model of the alloys please?
Thanks.
specially at the front were the M coupe is 10mm closer to the front mudguard then all other (non M) Z3's (10mm longer wheelbase)
I choose for 18" with other tires, so now the diameter (outline) from the tire is almost the same as the original 17"wheels/tire combo,
so some more space to the mudguard, especially when lowered and when turn in on some uneven road.
And ow, I also fitted new bigger brakes (CSL discs) and bigger but lightweight Brembo's and those came a bit to close (are wider) against the inside of the wheel,
even with that little spacer that comes with the Hartge wheels.
Ordering bigger distance plates was a bit difficult for the Hartge wheels (hart to get) but I got some,
but in the mean time ordered those special wheels were the spokes go to the end of the rim? so you have lots of space left for big brakes and callipers
and that without the use of spacers! that all and its lower weight, was that I choose those wheels.
anyways, the original Hartge wheel I've stored as long as I have these new wheels on, they are
XXR 527 wheels in black-chrome, see my order>
said:
Type velg: XXR 527 Black Chrome
2 x 18x8.75/ET35/114.3+120x5/BLK CHROME
2 x 18x9.75/ET20/114.3+120x5/BLK CHROME
But keep in mind, those wheels have a 73.1 mm hole instead of the BMW 72.6(5) mm hole2 x 18x8.75/ET35/114.3+120x5/BLK CHROME
2 x 18x9.75/ET20/114.3+120x5/BLK CHROME
that means 0.5 mm difference so 0.25mm per side so to say.
There are no spigot? rings that size/small/thin, so I had to think of something, I wanted that filled up even if it was that small, I don’t like movements in the wheels.
I used good Alu tape which they use for central heating venting pipe (heat) and made then in size, say 8<>10mm wide and ? as long for one round around the centre
(do not overlap) so stick on say 3 layers till it is a tight fit for the wheel or spacer (not overlap the ends) rub that very flat, and then you have your very thin spigot 'ring' which works perfect.
edit to say, with those wheels you need Tuner Bolts, those are more slim and handy, you don't scrape the bolt holes with them (normal bolts wont fit)
tuner bolts like this>> they also can be used as some sort of wheel lock-bolt.
The front wheels in the size and ET I ordered, need no spacers, the rear does with a M coupe, you can go for 20mm per side as 'original'
but I found that just a tiny bit to wide because of the wider wheels
so ordered after that the 15mm per side, and those are good for the rear, I don't like scraping in the wheel arches. (also depends how wide your tires are)
when go over say bad roads
Also ordered new coilover-set with adjustable camber plates and adjustable shock height, so you can make the chocks shorter,
especially at the rear were the wheels drop to far for my liking when you lift the car.
And to ad something I forgot to tell about the wheels, those XXR 527 are lighter as well,
here my measurements.
Hartge Velg 8J en ET40 in 19" = 12 kg
Hartge Velg 9.5J en ET22 in 19" = 12.8kg
XXR 527 Velg 8.75J en ET35 in 18"= 9.5kg
XXR 527 Velg 9.75J en ET20 in 18"= 10kg
Hartge velgen = 49.6kg & XXR 527 velgen = 39kg so I saved on the wheels alone 10.6kg
so thats 2.65 kg per wheel/side for a better unsprung weight.
On the tire combo I saved also a bit, all in all (wheel/tire) precise 3kg per side unsprung weight,
so I was quit pleased with the result all in all, also the Nokian zLine are really good,
especially for the money, they are also pretty wide,
say their 225 wide is the same as say 235 wide from Dunlop Sport/Michellin Sport/Falken Sport/Continental sport 5P I had,
and some others perhaps who are 225 in the real world, those Nokian are what they say,
instead of calling/naming it the 235 tires I mentioned above, what stands on the tire and what they sell those for,
when you measure them they (most) are 225mm and not the promised 235mm.
I have from those ‘wide’ tires on those XXR wheels
front Nokian zLine 225/40 ZR18 92Y XL (So)
rear Nokian zLine 265/35 ZR18 97Y XL (So)
Also very good grip those Nokia zLine, so would I buy those again, you bet.
of-course when going from 19 to 18 the side walls are a bit higher, but ad a bit more air
and thats good to live with me thinks.
I guess those tires will also be very good on 19"giving also still a bit comfort, so when
the conti sport 5P on my Hartge wheels are worn, I also put Nokian zLine on those.
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