Latest AUTOCAR Test: RS4 vs V8 M3
Discussion
FesterNath said:
Seems like a stupid question I suppose, but why are the brakes so obviously inferior to their rivals? Especially when it seems the 135i is going to get proper anchors.
And push the price any higher before you start on the options?I wonder if BMW M started to get a bit worried about the eventual price during this exercise, and stuck to some relatively simple single piston sliders.
Anyone know if the multipiston ones on the 135Ci are proper cast ally ones (saving quite a bit of weight)?
Will be interesting to see how much unsprung they save over the new M3's setup.
Dave
FesterNath said:
Seems like a stupid question I suppose, but why are the brakes so obviously inferior to their rivals? Especially when it seems the 135i is going to get proper anchors.
Firstly, see point 1 below. Not all potential customers are going to drive it like they stole it, just pose in it. At a guess 90% of owners will not get within 50% of the cars capabilities so BMW can save some money to add to their profit.stevesingo said:
Been reading this with interest as both a long term Autocar (Motor back then) and Evo reader, and I most certainly don't have £50k to spend but I'll put my 2p in, if that is OK.
1, For the majority of folks who have £50k burning a hole in their pocket, (and I don't think they are the type of people who make up the users on here) It doesn't matter what Autocar/Evo say or whether the buyer thinks one drives better than the other, what matters is having the latest, flashest toy and if you have it before the Jones' then all the better. The reality is that if the M3 isn't quite as good as the RS4, it won't matter, because they will still fly out of the showroom, making plenty of profit for BMW in the process.
2, Profit, now here's a subject...If the BMW bean counters cared about the quality of the product, they would take a £1000 hit in profit and fit decent brakes to the car in the first place, or remove the carbon roof and fit the brakes instead. Ah, but you can't see a set of decent calipers can you, a carbon roof is much more bling (see point 1).
3, So M3's will sell like hotcakes until something better will come along and then the Jones' will be clambering to buy the next big thing. What will that be...M3CS/CSL. Oh Dear. So all of the M3 owners run back to the dealers and trade in their one year old M3's (with a pretty big loss I imagine) for the CS/CSL for about £55k plus and the CS/CSL's fly out of the showroom. The dealers are left with plenty of M3's to sell at a profit as a bonus.
Sounds like BMW have got it right to me.
Steve
1, For the majority of folks who have £50k burning a hole in their pocket, (and I don't think they are the type of people who make up the users on here) It doesn't matter what Autocar/Evo say or whether the buyer thinks one drives better than the other, what matters is having the latest, flashest toy and if you have it before the Jones' then all the better. The reality is that if the M3 isn't quite as good as the RS4, it won't matter, because they will still fly out of the showroom, making plenty of profit for BMW in the process.
2, Profit, now here's a subject...If the BMW bean counters cared about the quality of the product, they would take a £1000 hit in profit and fit decent brakes to the car in the first place, or remove the carbon roof and fit the brakes instead. Ah, but you can't see a set of decent calipers can you, a carbon roof is much more bling (see point 1).
3, So M3's will sell like hotcakes until something better will come along and then the Jones' will be clambering to buy the next big thing. What will that be...M3CS/CSL. Oh Dear. So all of the M3 owners run back to the dealers and trade in their one year old M3's (with a pretty big loss I imagine) for the CS/CSL for about £55k plus and the CS/CSL's fly out of the showroom. The dealers are left with plenty of M3's to sell at a profit as a bonus.
Sounds like BMW have got it right to me.
Steve
FesterNath said:
Especially when it seems the 135i is going to get proper anchors.
Dunno, maybe their is a size issue, i.e 17" wheels on the 135 so to compensate for the smaller disc, use a better caliper.Steve
BMW probably know the 135Ci is going to be bought by owners who are going to give it some hammer. It doesn't have an M badge, so that kinda rules out badge buyers, and it's too big engined for a poseur who will buy the 1.8 version that looks almost identical instead, and it's 'only' a 1 series if someone's buying it to look good in the work carpark, and ultimately it'll look no different to any other 1 series Coupe with an M-sport kit 
This car, imho, seems to target hooners, 300bhp rwd for £30k brand new. Seems a bit of a bargain really, especially with good brakes as standard... something insurers would spot if you'd have upgraded, wheras you could diff it and only if taken apart would anyone suss it out
Bets that a decent diff is on the shelves to buy within 3 months of this going on sale!
Certainly a car I'd consider in the future when they are cheaper, especially if they manage to slot the engine/brakes in the 3dr hatch!
Dave
This car, imho, seems to target hooners, 300bhp rwd for £30k brand new. Seems a bit of a bargain really, especially with good brakes as standard... something insurers would spot if you'd have upgraded, wheras you could diff it and only if taken apart would anyone suss it out
Bets that a decent diff is on the shelves to buy within 3 months of this going on sale!
Certainly a car I'd consider in the future when they are cheaper, especially if they manage to slot the engine/brakes in the 3dr hatch!
Dave
I rekon with some CSL wheels and cups, a decent plate diff as noted above, and a hearty remap/intercooler upgrade this car will be pretty rapido around the Ring, and a fairly nice docile day to day car too!
Wouldn't want to be buying the CSL wheels and tyres mind, saw how much they were the other day
Dave
Wouldn't want to be buying the CSL wheels and tyres mind, saw how much they were the other day
Dave
How much are they. Pretty sure I saw someone selling an M3 CSL the other day on the classifieds and they wanted £7k for the wheels or something crackers.
So they are less than that then
Never mind, buy the CSL wheels then!
(goes to photoshop some on)
Nice... 350bhp after a remap, a proper BMW 6 pot sound, and with a diff stuck on, what is there not to like? (still not 100% sure on the front end, but the side has grown on me )
Dave
So they are less than that then
Never mind, buy the CSL wheels then!
(goes to photoshop some on)
Nice... 350bhp after a remap, a proper BMW 6 pot sound, and with a diff stuck on, what is there not to like? (still not 100% sure on the front end, but the side has grown on me
)Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Tuesday 31st July 17:21
m12_nathan said:
Mr Whippy said:
How much are they. Pretty sure I saw someone selling an M3 CSL the other day on the classifieds and they wanted £7k for the wheels or something crackers.
£1200 for a full set inc vat from a dealer + tyres at about 950 for a full set.Lets just hope their image doesn't get diluted by over-use in a few years...
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
I rekon with some CSL wheels and cups, a decent plate diff as noted above, and a hearty remap/intercooler upgrade this car will be pretty rapido around the Ring, and a fairly nice docile day to day car too!
Wouldn't want to be buying the CSL wheels and tyres mind, saw how much they were the other day
Dave
followed one around the 'ring, it looked quick and balanced...fun in other wordsWouldn't want to be buying the CSL wheels and tyres mind, saw how much they were the other day
Dave
shane
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff