E46 bmw M3, Manual or SmG II ?? Plz help !
Discussion
My pals car was a minter, totally immaculate and not his first one either so he knew what to look for. He was just unlucky as he travelled a long way to see it and the smg just went totally without warning.
I'm not saying it's a bad system. When it works it does do the job but especially manual is such a nice one I just think it's a bit of a gimmick. I was bursting to try it but honestly the novelty was well gone after a few minutes. And yes I did have a go at full throttle changing.
To me it's just another expensive bit on a car that's already got enough potentially expensive pitfalls to cope with.
I'm not saying it's a bad system. When it works it does do the job but especially manual is such a nice one I just think it's a bit of a gimmick. I was bursting to try it but honestly the novelty was well gone after a few minutes. And yes I did have a go at full throttle changing.
To me it's just another expensive bit on a car that's already got enough potentially expensive pitfalls to cope with.
mat205125 said:
fridaypassion said:
Novelty wears off after about 10 seconds too.
Is this your personal experience? Maybe you should have tried the car for longer, driven the car harder, or got onto a circuit.In stop-start traffic I would sometimes prefer a manual over my SMG, but on a nice flowing A/B road or any circuit I'd take SMG every time over a manual. Ignore the Clarkson crap that is regurgitated by people with no first hand experience ... On the right road, and for my type of driving, SMG adds to the experience over a manual a million times more than a couple of occasions where it has limitations.
daveknott5 said:
That's surprising. I thought the SMG would be a real plus over the manual in stop-start traffic?? Not having to be on and off the clutch all the time must be better than the manual... or is the SMG take up at low speeds too jerky??
It's not that the take up is Jerky, it's just not an auto at the end of the day. The torque converter in an auto is what makes stop-start urban driving relaxing, however the SMG remains a manual car, just with an automated clutch.When driving a manual in busy traffic, or in tight situations, I would be instictively balancing the throttle, clutch, and also the handbrake against what information I was processing from a massive amount of stimulae - vision in many different directions, the feeling of the gradiant and the road condition etc etc etc. In short, my "computer" is processing far more data than any silicon computer possibly can. SMG can take a long time to get used to in these situations, to the point that it may become frustrating if this is 99.9% of your driving - If it is, I'd argue that a 330d auto would be a better car than an M3 anyway. Your first reverse park, up hill, into a tight parking space will be an interesting experience
Out on the open road, however, the operation of the clutch is a far simpler affair that SMG performs faultlessly. This is where I spend the vast majority of my time on the road, and I'd not swap my SMG for a manual because of this.
The biggest problem with stop-start driving is the change from 1st to 2nd which always seemed to get in the way. Crawling in first was fine, although you have to switch between brake and accelerator which gets boring.
In retrospect, I miss my SMG M3 and wish my Z4M had had it. Couldn't comment on its longevity, but realistically every mechanical component on these cars can fail, and when they do they are generally expensive!
In retrospect, I miss my SMG M3 and wish my Z4M had had it. Couldn't comment on its longevity, but realistically every mechanical component on these cars can fail, and when they do they are generally expensive!
I've driven both and have a manual. The gearbox and clutch is exactly the same in either, IIRC, it's just that the SMG has other actuators and pumps etc to make the change. I've tried SMG in both normal M3's and a CSL, and can't understand those who seem to have a monumental dislike of it. It takes time to bond with the way SMG works, and surely that's part of the enjoyment of owning a car?
The manual has a long(ish) throw and can be notchy. The SMG can stick and require a new pump etc. Both have pros and cons. Try both and see which you prefer.
Neither is a "bad" choice.
Matt
The manual has a long(ish) throw and can be notchy. The SMG can stick and require a new pump etc. Both have pros and cons. Try both and see which you prefer.
Neither is a "bad" choice. Matt
Just like to add my two pennies worth.
I've owned a manual Subaru Impreza, Lotus Elise, Nissan 200sx and a Peugeot 205gti, so I know how satisfying a manual can be.
That said, I do not regret buying an SMG e46 SMG one bit.
Yes it's clunky around town, yes you may have that worry of it going wrong but f*ck me when I hoon it I'm glad I chose an SMG.
Without a doubt it's fun and bloody fast, I took it around Coombe and jesus the thing can switch gears faster than I've ever been able to.
At 8-9k rpm the gear changes are spine smackingly nuts, and probably the closest I'll ever come to a super car.
I've owned a manual Subaru Impreza, Lotus Elise, Nissan 200sx and a Peugeot 205gti, so I know how satisfying a manual can be.
That said, I do not regret buying an SMG e46 SMG one bit.
Yes it's clunky around town, yes you may have that worry of it going wrong but f*ck me when I hoon it I'm glad I chose an SMG.
Without a doubt it's fun and bloody fast, I took it around Coombe and jesus the thing can switch gears faster than I've ever been able to.
At 8-9k rpm the gear changes are spine smackingly nuts, and probably the closest I'll ever come to a super car.
I will just put this here OP in case you prefer involvement over speed,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaUCdAdaaj8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaUCdAdaaj8
I’ve had a manual E46 M3 for just over three years now having previously had a manual E46 330ci sport for 7 years. Yes, the M3 manual gearbox can be a bit notchy when cold but is fine once warmed up if not as nice as the 330’s box. As others have said, all down to personal preference.
I drove a few manual M3s before getting my SMG car, I thought the manual was ok but not a great gear change compared to my Clio 200. I put the CSL software on my smg and its great, speeds it up and adds proper downshifts, my car has had a new smg system 2 years ago before I bought it so that was good for peace of mind.
E30M3ZONE said:
48Valves said:
SMG all day long. It really suits the car.
The manual in the E46 M3 is awful.
100% agree...the manual on mine completely spoilt the car IMO. Not sure if any of the quick shifts work? Anyone?The manual in the E46 M3 is awful.
I found the SMG at its best in stop/start and tootling around.
It’d also be better on track or timed performance.
But for a hoon I felt I was missing out on doing something, being more involved, and frankly the M3 is so torquey and also rev hungry fast, having something that makes it faster with less effort just seemed an own goal to me.
Costs, it’s an M3.
SMG worries are low down against head gasket, subframe mounts and vanos, and rust, and general high maintenance.
It’d also be better on track or timed performance.
But for a hoon I felt I was missing out on doing something, being more involved, and frankly the M3 is so torquey and also rev hungry fast, having something that makes it faster with less effort just seemed an own goal to me.
Costs, it’s an M3.
SMG worries are low down against head gasket, subframe mounts and vanos, and rust, and general high maintenance.
48Valves said:
SMG all day long. It really suits the car.
The manual in the E46 M3 is awful.
I'm not a fan at all of manual M3s, especially since the investment peeps got involved with values etc.. BUT, awful is a strong word to use. It's not great, I admit, but awful is pushing it. Then again, I've driven mate's VW T1 Splitty with a gearchange not even a Houldini himself would appreciate. Then I've also driven an MX-5, Ford Focus....The manual in the E46 M3 is awful.
Anyway, now I've shot myself in the foot with the above statement, here's what I've driven and here are my observations.
M3 Manual- This car had 77k on the clock. it was OK to use but you had to respect it. Rush it and it would crunch. Going into first like an SMG (in auto) required you to come to near a complete stop to not crunch it. It's one reason the owner sold it. You can improve them however, but then those improvements can also be done to an SMG if you make that a 3 pedal car... Most other BMWs have been similar, including a 17k M4 Manual I've driven. Oddly, an E89 Z4 was nice for a BMW manual I must admit!
My 03 SMG on 138k and on CSL software; To my knowledge my car is still on the original clutch, SMG pump (motor etc.) but it does have a new(ish) Salmon relay and possibly a revised temperature sensor. It's pretty good TBH! It could be smoother, but I do know my car is begging for the prop coupling (guibo) to be changed, which won't help matters at all! Generally it's pretty good and the car is still very much an event to drive, and I love the ability of keeping my eyes on the road and just grabbing a gear as and when I need it, not with the 'box becoming recalictrant when on the move! The CSL software transformed the auto functions in mine, something which becomes more apparent with the next car I am currently driving.
M3 'vert SMG on 92k and for sale via a mate. This car is on a newish clutch kit and DMF, barely 3 years and 20k old to be exact, in addition to the SMG motor and accumulator being replaced, in addition to also the prop coupling and bearing being changed. It's a much smoother drive than mine, even compared to when mine didn't have the CSL software. It's very liveable and TBH it's great. I forgot that you could rev-match via heel-and-toe on a non-CSL-software SMG. Honestly, it's pretty good! It's also provided me the drive to get my prop bearing done. When people say a clutch and DMF change transforms an SMG car they are not kidding! I've been a passenger in a 30k manual 'vert, the 77k 'vert which I also drove, a 90k 'ring coupe tool, my own and this, and this car is the tightest of the lot! With the CSL software this car "could" potentially be a spot-on drive for an M3.
The above is so much so that I am debating getting that damned Wendy Box! But that car itself is very clean and has had no expense spared (read new HG, VANOS rebuild...).
As for extra expense, no M3 is cheap to run SMG, or not; they're also old enough where who has owned the car will play a much bigger part as the what bills you can get from the car. The bills for this '92k 'vert even if you remove the SMG pump rebuild out of the equation are not cheap; my mate (his car) estimates the previous owner threw around £5-6k in 5 years at the car; not too bad I guess. Mine? It would make a few people cry on here, especially considering I've done most of the work myself on the car. One journalist mind you thought it sounded par for the course, a few other people were very surprised at the figures I provided for 2.3 years and 30k of running my car.
Edited by SebringMan on Friday 27th July 00:52
Edited by SebringMan on Friday 27th July 00:57
daveknott5 said:
That's surprising. I thought the SMG would be a real plus over the manual in stop-start traffic?? Not having to be on and off the clutch all the time must be better than the manual... or is the SMG take up at low speeds too jerky??
1st to 2nd change can be slow. Giving it some welly however can speed that up, and TBH S3 Auto is pretty decent in town for being 'darty'Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff