M3 CSL opinions please.....

M3 CSL opinions please.....

Author
Discussion

DoctorD

1,542 posts

259 months

Tuesday 13th June 2006
quotequote all
bennno said:
I found the CSL incredibly competant but not what you could call fun in a bobbing nose 996 style
Bennno


But then yours had a DSG box, apparently..

bennno

12,047 posts

272 months

Tuesday 13th June 2006
quotequote all
DoctorD said:
bennno said:
I found the CSL incredibly competant but not what you could call fun in a bobbing nose 996 style
Bennno


But then yours had a DSG box, apparently..


no an SMG gearbox my mistake on my profile...

mondeoman

11,430 posts

269 months

Tuesday 13th June 2006
quotequote all
bennno said:
I much prefer my Monaro VXR to my old M3 CSL.


Bennno


Oops - I found the VXR to be cramped and uncomfortable - horses for courses I suppose, and in outright terms just not as quick.

Mind you with the upgrades you mentioned it might be a different proposition, but the front seats would have to go for something much lower

escobar

Original Poster:

701 posts

225 months

Wednesday 14th June 2006
quotequote all
Cant see a Monaro being in the same league as a CSL. I know they cant get near my RS...went to Isle of Man recently with PorscheClubGB and somebody had one. Didnt see it once on the trip over the mountain road

Any truth in the rumours that BMW are going to make a CSL in the E90 range (with the V8) and it be 420bhp!!! Surely that will really hurt the residuals of E46 CSL's?

Edited by escobar on Wednesday 14th June 18:06

ghiblicup

605 posts

217 months

Wednesday 14th June 2006
quotequote all
If they do It wont be for a good 3years later.

bennno

12,047 posts

272 months

Wednesday 14th June 2006
quotequote all
escobar said:
Cant see a Monaro being in the same league as a CSL. I know they cant get near my RS...went to Isle of Man recently with PorscheClubGB and somebody had one. Didnt see it once on the trip over the mountain road

Any truth in the rumours that BMW are going to make a CSL in the E90 range (with the V8) and it be 420bhp!!! Surely that will really hurt the residuals of E46 CSL's?

Edited by escobar on Wednesday 14th June 18:06


If you measure a car by how fast it is on a track then the CSL is better than a Monaro, but by the same token a VX220 Turbo, Exige, Caterham CSR or Radical would be better still.

If you need an all purpose car which is fun on the track then the monaro is about half way between a CSL and an M5 (I have owned all 3)with more empahsis on the GT.

Bennno

DoctorD

1,542 posts

259 months

Wednesday 14th June 2006
quotequote all
escobar said:


Any truth in the rumours that BMW are going to make a CSL in the E90 range (with the V8) and it be 420bhp!!! Surely that will really hurt the residuals of E46 CSL's?



I have an order down for an E92 M3 CSL, hopefully it might be impressive enough to tempt me away from my E46 CSL. Rumour is for a 2008 release (which is 5 years on from the E46 CSL) and 450bhp in a sub-1400kg bodyshell. If they can do that then I'm sure it will be a worthy succesor. There were some spy pics of M3 mules with carbon fibre roofs, and BMW confirmed last year that they would be making several CSL models in the future.

richycsl

3,741 posts

220 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
bennno said:
escobar said:
Cant see a Monaro being in the same league as a CSL. I know they cant get near my RS...went to Isle of Man recently with PorscheClubGB and somebody had one. Didnt see it once on the trip over the mountain road

Any truth in the rumours that BMW are going to make a CSL in the E90 range (with the V8) and it be 420bhp!!! Surely that will really hurt the residuals of E46 CSL's?

Edited by escobar on Wednesday 14th June 18:06


If you measure a car by how fast it is on a track then the CSL is better than a Monaro, but by the same token a VX220 Turbo, Exige, Caterham CSR or Radical would be better still.

If you need an all purpose car which is fun on the track then the monaro is about half way between a CSL and an M5 (I have owned all 3)with more empahsis on the GT.

Bennno


Do you mean a standard vx220 turbo or exige s is quicker than a CSL on a track? They must be flipping quick. The vx didn't feel that quick when I drove it but I guess on tracks its different.

ghiblicup

605 posts

217 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
richycsl said:
bennno said:
escobar said:
Cant see a Monaro being in the same league as a CSL. I know they cant get near my RS...went to Isle of Man recently with PorscheClubGB and somebody had one. Didnt see it once on the trip over the mountain road

Any truth in the rumours that BMW are going to make a CSL in the E90 range (with the V8) and it be 420bhp!!! Surely that will really hurt the residuals of E46 CSL's?

Edited by escobar on Wednesday 14th June 18:06


If you measure a car by how fast it is on a track then the CSL is better than a Monaro, but by the same token a VX220 Turbo, Exige, Caterham CSR or Radical would be better still.

If you need an all purpose car which is fun on the track then the monaro is about half way between a CSL and an M5 (I have owned all 3)with more empahsis on the GT.

Bennno


Do you mean a standard vx220 turbo or exige s is quicker than a CSL on a track? They must be flipping quick. The vx didn't feel that quick when I drove it but I guess on tracks its different.


They are not at all

bennno

12,047 posts

272 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all

Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
Gallardo 1.25.8
BMW Z4 M 1.26.0
Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
Lotus Exige 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9
Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
TVR 350C 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0

Top gear stig laps...

Bennno

oola

2,534 posts

226 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
bennno said:

Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
Gallardo 1.25.8
BMW Z4 M 1.26.0
Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
Lotus Exige 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9
Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
TVR 350C 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0

Top gear stig laps...


Bennno


Bennno - All I can say id don't beleive everything you see on TV! If you take those lap times as a difinitive answer to how quick the CSL is, then you are mistaken. The CSL also did a 'wet' lap round that circuit, so the times are not really comparable.

If you want to know how the CSL stacks up against 'supercars', look at these times ...

7:32 - Porsche Carrera GT (7:32.44)
7:44 - Zonda
7:46 - Porsche 996 GT2
7:47 - Porsche Gt3 RS (sport tyres)
7:50 - M3 CSL (sport tyres)
7:52 - GT3 (381hp)
7:52 - Lamborghini Gallardo
7:52 - Lamborghini Murcielao
7:52 - Mercedes SLR mclaren
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 - 360 stradale (sport tyres)
7:57 - Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo (600 HP, racing suspension)
8:07 - Ferrari 550
8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV
8:09 - Ferrari 360 Modena
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS
8:12 - Porsche 993 Turbo (430 HP version)
8:15 - BMW Z8 400 HP
8:17 - Porsche 996 C2
8:18 - Ferrari F355
8:22 - BMW M Coupe 321 HP
8:25 - Audi RS4 375 HP
8:28 - Porsche 993 C2
8:28 - BMW M5 400 HP
8:32 - Porsche Boxster S
8:35 - BMW M3 Coupe 321 HP
8:37 - Mercedes C32 AMG
8:38 - Honda NSX
8:39 - Honda S2000
8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette
8:42 - Audi S4 265 HP
8:42 - Lotus Exige
8:49 - Jaguar XKR Coupe
8:52 - Mercedes CLK 430

ghiblicup

605 posts

217 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
Top Gear-LOL

Well done oola you beat me ! But you forgot too add they are "the ring" times

bennno

12,047 posts

272 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all

The ring has a lot of high speed sections and on this basis its quite unlike any UK circuit that i can think of.

For sure if you want a car that laps the ring fast a CSL is better than a Exige, but take both cars to Brands or Donnington and install the same driver and for fun and speed the Exige would probably be faster.

Autocar did a road / track group test involving the CSL about 18 months ago - do any of you have a copy of this?

Bennno

ghiblicup

605 posts

217 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
Ok how about Hockenheim.......

CSL-1.13,5 min

Exige-1.16,5 min

VX-1.17,1 min

oola

2,534 posts

226 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
Oops, yep I meant ring times back up there.

Personally, I cannot see how an Exige would be quicker around Donny than a CSL ...

Well done ghiblicup! Times around Hockenhiem are probably more comparable than the Ring' and certainly more so than the TG airfield track ..

Edited by oola on Thursday 15th June 14:18

Zod

35,295 posts

261 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
bennno said:

Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
Gallardo 1.25.8
BMW Z4 M 1.26.0
Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
Lotus Exige 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9
Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
TVR 350C 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0

Top gear stig laps...

Bennno
times around a crappy circuit by different drivers in wildly varying conditions. Yes, they are an entirely reliable guide to relative performance.

Edited by Zod on Thursday 15th June 14:45

DoctorD

1,542 posts

259 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
oola said:
Oops, yep I meant ring times back up there.

Personally, I cannot see how an Exige would be quicker around Donny than a CSL ...

Well done ghiblicup! Times around Hockenhiem are probably more comparable than the Ring' and certainly more so than the TG airfield track ..

Edited by oola on Thursday 15th June 14:18


Well since I've owned both (and being a reasonaly swift driver with many years of race experience) I would say..... No. The Exige is a great little car and will grip near enough as well as a CSL but it gets absolutely demolished in a straight line. Around Donnington you can lap a CSL in around 1 min 19s, which is rear of BTCC grid pace...

..my Exige for comparison was more like 1 min 24 or more IIRC.

Edited by DoctorD on Thursday 15th June 15:07

bennno

12,047 posts

272 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
Zod said:
bennno said:

Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
Gallardo 1.25.8
BMW Z4 M 1.26.0
Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
Lotus Exige 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9
Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
TVR 350C 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0

Top gear stig laps...

Bennno
times around a crappy circuit by different drivers in wildly varying conditions. Yes, they are an entirely reliable guide to relative performance.

Edited by Zod on Thursday 15th June 14:45


Laps around the same circuit by the same professional racing driver are surely more accurate than the figures for the nurburgring with all different drivers and non official timing?

The ring times show a 45 second improvement for the CSL over a standard M3 which I find almost unbelieveable although the cup tyres make a big difference

Point being that there is no real difference between 1.25 and 1.28 the CSL is in the same ballpark as a Exige.

Therefore going back to the original question of whether to buy a CSL its back to how much track use is planned. If its intended purely for track use then a caterham or exige are cheaper and possibly better FUN, if its a road / track car then you can balance a CSL against a standard M3, 996 C2 or Monaro VXR dependent upon the amount of track vs road use.

Bennno

Zod

35,295 posts

261 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
bennno said:
Zod said:
bennno said:

Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
Gallardo 1.25.8
BMW Z4 M 1.26.0
Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
Lotus Exige 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9
Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
TVR 350C 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0

Top gear stig laps...

Bennno
times around a crappy circuit by different drivers in wildly varying conditions. Yes, they are an entirely reliable guide to relative performance.

Edited by Zod on Thursday 15th June 14:45


Laps around the same circuit by the same professional racing driver are surely more accurate than the figures for the nurburgring with all different drivers and non official timing?

The ring times show a 45 second improvement for the CSL over a standard M3 which I find almost unbelieveable although the cup tyres make a big difference

Point being that there is no real difference between 1.25 and 1.28 the CSL is in the same ballpark as a Exige.

Therefore going back to the original question of whether to buy a CSL its back to how much track use is planned. If its intended purely for track use then a caterham or exige are cheaper and possibly better FUN, if its a road / track car then you can balance a CSL against a standard M3, 996 C2 or Monaro VXR dependent upon the amount of track vs road use.

Bennno
but it's not always the same Stig, Bennno.

DoctorD

1,542 posts

259 months

Thursday 15th June 2006
quotequote all
bennno said:

Laps around the same circuit by the same professional racing driver are surely more accurate than the figures for the nurburgring with all different drivers and non official timing?

The ring times show a 45 second improvement for the CSL over a standard M3 which I find almost unbelieveable although the cup tyres make a big difference

Point being that there is no real difference between 1.25 and 1.28 the CSL is in the same ballpark as a Exige.

Therefore going back to the original question of whether to buy a CSL its back to how much track use is planned. If its intended purely for track use then a caterham or exige are cheaper and possibly better FUN, if its a road / track car then you can balance a CSL against a standard M3, 996 C2 or Monaro VXR dependent upon the amount of track vs road use.

Bennno


You would have to be more specific in defining what you mean by 'fun'. I certainly find the CSL more 'fun' than the Exige on track, because there's more of a demand on the driver's inputs and skills when driving a CSL. I found the Exige 'relatively' boring and reminded me of the days when I used to race lower powered karts (point, grip, oops another long straight). The CSL is also one of the most adjustable rear-drive chassis around, certainly far more so than the Exige/Elise and is great if you enjoy the fine challenge of sideways motoring.