CSL Vs 911 Turbo...

[rods]

Check the vmax forum under FAQ for results Standard 996TT mid 170's,CSL's low 160's.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.

[The Dude]

__LEE__ said:

I don't know about anyone else but I thought this thread was quite interesting.

They are both superb cars and it interesting to see the outcome of a head to head. I'm personally not doubting you but I would expect the 996TT to see of the CSL espcially with an extra passenger. There are many variables to take into account though and as I have experienced sometimes you need a large amount extra to make the difference stick.

Keep driving the CSL the way it is supposed to be driven!

Thanks Lee, that is indeed the spirit in which I posted it - because I was as surprised as anyone to have kept up. I know the spec sheet pecking order between a CSL and a TT, I even said to the girlfriend "Shall I have a try with this 911, I know it'll leave me standing but it'll be fun anyway....." And it was.

No danger of me driving my car any other way

[The Dude]

rods said:

Check the vmax forum under FAQ for results Standard 996TT mid 170's,CSL's low 160's.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.

Was that a standard CSL though Rob? Mine is derestricted and has another 20-25bhp (and more torque but I don't know the figures) than a standard one.

[m12_nathan]

Yep, I'd except to be battered by one in a straight line, I've seen with my own eyes that isn't the case on a track, above the speeds you see on track I'd expect the TT to bugger off too due to it's power and shape.

So many variables, maybe he had a tip which are slower than the manuals? Maybe he wasn't changing gear very well? Either way the Dude abides

[The Dude]

m12_nathan said:

Yep, I'd except to be battered by one in a straight line, I've seen with my own eyes that isn't the case on a track, above the speeds you see on track I'd expect the TT to bugger off too due to it's power and shape.

So many variables, maybe he had a tip which are slower than the manuals? Maybe he wasn't changing gear very well? Either way the Dude abides

The "test track" was several miles of dual carriage-way with 3 or 4 roundabouts interspersed. Some we flew around, some we had to stop at.

The Dude does, indeed, abide.

[rods]

The Dude said:

rods said:

Check the vmax forum under FAQ for results Standard 996TT mid 170's,CSL's low 160's.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.

Was that a standard CSL though Rob? Mine is derestricted and has another 20-25bhp (and more torque but I don't know the figures) than a standard one.

Not sure mate,probably standard.

Howabout we run mine against yours at the next vmax as they are both not standard

Fancy meeting up for a drink over xmas?

[The Dude]

rods said:

The Dude said:

rods said:

Check the vmax forum under FAQ for results Standard 996TT mid 170's,CSL's low 160's.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.

Was that a standard CSL though Rob? Mine is derestricted and has another 20-25bhp (and more torque but I don't know the figures) than a standard one.

Not sure mate,probably standard.

Howabout we run mine against yours at the next vmax as they are both not standard

Fancy meeting up for a drink over xmas?

Definitley yes on the drinks, perhaps we can do the race in reverse or something, give me a fighting chance?

[Beemer-5]

What mods does your CSL have and do you thoroughly recommend them? My remap at Thorney got cancelled but have you done anything else?

[The Dude]

It's been "stage twoed" at Thorneys...plus better pads and hoses.

[Beemer-5]

Part-exhaust and a remap for £3,000, right? If that price is accurate, it seems expensive for what you are actually getting. Half an exhaust system and 30 minutes on a laptop.

[The Dude]

Beemer-5 said:

Part-exhaust and a remap for £3,000, right? If that price is accurate, it seems expensive for what you are actually getting. Half an exhaust system and 30 minutes on a laptop.

Whether it's worth it or not all depends on the customer.

I can assure you that it was much more than 30 mins though. I was there all day watching them work on my car.

[Beemer-5]

So did it cost three big ones dude?
Was it worth it, in your opinion?
What did you actually get for £3000 if so. Ta.

[Zod]

klm said:

Sorry but I'm not buying this, a turbo is a very quick car and although a Csl is quick the Porka would streak away.

Csl 0-60mph 4.8secs
996tt 0-60mph 3.6secs

Get my drift now

where do you get 3.6 seconds? The 997 turbo's official figures are slower than that. The 996TT figure is either 3.9 or 4.0, I think (obviously a lot quicker than the CSL - not surprising, given the 4wd and the extra torque).

[Zod]

The Dude said:

It's been "stage twoed" at Thorneys...plus better pads and hoses.

I'm probably going to let Thorney do my exhaust. It doesn't have quite the sense of drama 500bhp should bring.

[The Dude]

Zod said:

The Dude said:

It's been "stage twoed" at Thorneys...plus better pads and hoses.

I'm probably going to let Thorney do my exhaust. It doesn't have quite the sense of drama 500bhp should bring.

Mine certainly has "drama" though it is quite droney (as has been well documented regarding the CSL Miltek) but I just couldn't go back to standard now, sounds awesome when you're pressing on

[Beemer-5]

Beemer-5 said:

So did it cost three big ones dude?
Was it worth it, in your opinion?
What did you actually get for £3000 if so. Ta.

Dude?

[The Dude]

Beemer-5 said:

Beemer-5 said:

So did it cost three big ones dude?
Was it worth it, in your opinion?
What did you actually get for £3000 if so. Ta.

Dude?

Like I said really, I can't say if it's worth it for you. I'm very happy with the changes but admitedly for £3k it is a bit expensive. All the details for the package are on Thorney's website - I even did a write up in the modification section on BM3W. If you can't find it, drop me a PM on there and I'll paste you the link (no point doing it on here as you have to be a member, which I know you are but plenty of others probably aren't).

Are you going to the Midlands Xmas Dinner? If so, you can check out my car there, no problem, and see if you feel that the difference is enough.

[Beemer-5]

Thanks for that. We are on holiday when the Xmas dinner is happening though. I will no doubt see you at a meeting some time.
Feel free to attend Denby, next ones are 10th December or 7th January, near Derby.

[klm]

The Dude said:

rods said:

Check the vmax forum under FAQ for results Standard 996TT mid 170's,CSL's low 160's.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.

Was that a standard CSL though Rob? Mine is derestricted and has another 20-25bhp (and more torque but I don't know the figures) than a standard one.

How do you know its got this much extra bhp as the Csl does not run on the rolling road, my mate had a car messed about with and said yeah it's alot quicker, untill he put it on the rollers, boy did he get a shock.
It was worse than official figures.

Just take the bhp gains claim with a pinch of salt.

As I said before, my mate Csl has got the full Supersprint system with race kats and when he floored it I could pass him and just streak off into the distance quite easy, but when I had the Csl and had a blat with a TT I was fairly close then, but when we got to a roundabout the guy was in his 60's and looked terrified of the thing, so it just depends on all different factors I suppose.

[The Dude]

klm said:

The Dude said:

rods said:

Check the vmax forum under FAQ for results Standard 996TT mid 170's,CSL's low 160's.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.

Was that a standard CSL though Rob? Mine is derestricted and has another 20-25bhp (and more torque but I don't know the figures) than a standard one.

How do you know its got this much extra bhp as the Csl does not run on the rolling road, my mate had a car messed about with and said yeah it's alot quicker, untill he put it on the rollers, boy did he get a shock.
It was worse than official figures.

Just take the bhp gains claim with a pinch of salt.

As I said before, my mate Csl has got the full Supersprint system with race kats and when he floored it I could pass him and just streak off into the distance quite easy, but when I had the Csl and had a blat with a TT I was fairly close then, but when we got to a roundabout the guy was in his 60's and looked terrified of the thing, so it just depends on all different factors I suppose.

Yes, it's well known that CSLs don't run on rolling roads. My car is faster than standard (it's plainly obvious when you drive it back to back to the pre-modified car, which I did). I too have new exhaust (Miltek back-box and centre section) and 100-cell CATs. The BHP figure is a realistic estimate based on what I know from Thorney's about the gain they got from their engine when they developed the remap package (it actually is possible to dyno a CSL actually but it involves modifying the wiring loom which obviously they don't do to customer cars but did to their own during development). In terms of figures, I think the pre and post modification figures off the dyno for my car showed a gain of 4 BHP! The other effect of the remap is to bring peak tourque lower down the rev range - makes a real difference to the car.

All that is reasonably irrelevant as you'll note I never claimed that my CSL is as powerful as a TT. Like I keep saying, I was very surprised to keep up with him and believe me he *was* making an effort and was certainly not some old pensioner (well done for keeping up with one though ) - we very quickly got to stupid speeds so he wasn't hanging about. Obviously I can't say if he was making 100% effort but if it helps you sleep better at night, lets agree and say he probably wasn't.