ND RF problem with battery drain whilst idle.

ND RF problem with battery drain whilst idle.

Author
Discussion

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Wednesday 29th November 2017
quotequote all
Mazda USA are currently testing people’s cars and individuals have done their own monitoring and it would now seem likely that a fault in the ND RF’s cruise control causes it to generate 4 times the level of parasitic battery drain when the car is switched off with the cruise control active. This will cause an idle RF to completely drain its’ battery in 12-14 days. I know, I’ve had to jump mine 4 times already after coming back from business trips.

3 threads on miata.net on the issue...
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=636758
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=649014
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=636758

In a poll on miata.net, 50% of RF owners responded that they’d had flat batteries already. The Soft Top appears unaffected.

If you are an RF owner and have experienced this, I urge you to email Mazda in your country and at least register the issue. Mazda USA seem to be taking it seriously...probably due to the number of complaints they’ve received.

In the meantime, if you are going to leave your RF parked for an extended period, turn the cruise control “off” before shutting down the car.

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Wednesday 29th November 2017
quotequote all
Mazda Japan have CONFIRMED the problem is indeed with the cruise control and requires the replacements of the RF’s instrument cluster! Hopefully a TSB will follow.

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
Mazda Australia have asked me to bring my car in for testing/monitoring in Jan. Apparently since I complained to them, they have received additional customer complaints.

Stephen Riley1506

5 posts

7 months

Tuesday 2nd January
quotequote all
This may well be the case and reporting incidents to Mazda UK may be the right thing to do but on the Mazda site you are instructed to contact your dealer. On doing so you are refused contact unless you book your car in. The issues bringing you to service management are not up for discussion. I too have this issue and have had 2 none starts in 800 miles. The Mazda Assistance Guy was good but did not feel that I would get anywhere. I get no more than 2 days without draining the battery. It remains to be seen if I get anywhere when I bring the car in. The drain is a big 0.14 amps when all is off.

RBH58 said:
Mazda USA are currently testing people’s cars and individuals have done their own monitoring and it would now seem likely that a fault in the ND RF’s cruise control causes it to generate 4 times the level of parasitic battery drain when the car is switched off with the cruise control active. This will cause an idle RF to completely drain its’ battery in 12-14 days. I know, I’ve had to jump mine 4 times already after coming back from business trips.

3 threads on miata.net on the issue...
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=636758
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=649014
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=636758

In a poll on miata.net, 50% of RF owners responded that they’d had flat batteries already. The Soft Top appears unaffected.

If you are an RF owner and have experienced this, I urge you to email Mazda in your country and at least register the issue. Mazda USA seem to be taking it seriously...probably due to the number of complaints they’ve received.

In the meantime, if you are going to leave your RF parked for an extended period, turn the cruise control “off” before shutting down the car.

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Tuesday 2nd January
quotequote all
If you are not happy with the dealers response, who are you supposed to escalate the issue to other than Mazda themselves?
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Stephen Riley1506

5 posts

7 months

Friday 5th January
quotequote all
RBH58 said:
If you are not happy with the dealers response, who are you supposed to escalate the issue to other than Mazda themselves?
Yes I know but this is an example of procedure over common sense. I have now been to my dealer who after 4 ours wait confirmed that there was a drain and asked me to come back when I could leave the car with them for two or more days. They we not away of any known issues and told me that they had 3 others on site with no problem. Escalation or cooperation is. it would appear, is not an option in the UK.

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Saturday 6th January
quotequote all
Stephen Riley1506 said:
Yes I know but this is an example of procedure over common sense. I have now been to my dealer who after 4 ours wait confirmed that there was a drain and asked me to come back when I could leave the car with them for two or more days. They we not away of any known issues and told me that they had 3 others on site with no problem. Escalation or cooperation is. it would appear, is not an option in the UK.
You can always escalate to Mazda UK and register that you are unhappy with the process. Mazda in the US have recognised that there is a problem. Mazda Australia are currently testing a couple of cars but know about the problem...Mazda in Norway have even indicated that they’ve received. bulletin from Mazda Japan indicating that a software fix may be on the way. I’m guessing that the fix will be to default the Cruise Control to Off when the car is switched off. I’d urge you to at least register the problem with Mazda UK?

It seems likely that ALL RFs are affected. But in order to know you have a problem you’ve got to park your car for 12-14 days with the Cruise Control in the On position when the car was shutdown. Do that, and it’s unlikely to start.

Edited by RBH58 on Saturday 6th January 07:03

Stephen Riley1506

5 posts

7 months

Sunday 7th January
quotequote all
RBH58 said:
You can always escalate to Mazda UK and register that you are unhappy with the process. Mazda in the US have recognised that there is a problem. Mazda Australia are currently testing a couple of cars but know about the problem...Mazda in Norway have even indicated that they’ve received. bulletin from Mazda Japan indicating that a software fix may be on the way. I’m guessing that the fix will be to default the Cruise Control to Off when the car is switched off. I’d urge you to at least register the problem with Mazda UK?

It seems likely that ALL RFs are affected. But in order to know you have a problem you’ve got to park your car for 12-14 days with the Cruise Control in the On position when the car was shutdown. Do that, and it’s unlikely to start.

Edited by RBH58 on Saturday 6th January 07:03
I know you are right but since my dealer tells me that he knows nothing about these issues and has determined to investigate with my car off the road and Mazda UK defer all mechanical and warranty issues to the dealer to administrate there seems to be little I could do. However, I will document this complaint and at least send it to Mazda UK even though thy will not acknowledge the contact. At least then I have some record of the complaint.

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Friday 12th January
quotequote all
Mazda HQ have published a world wide bulletin for RFs built up to the middle of 2017.


Service Bulletin R087/17 on December 26, 2017 from Mazda HQ Japan to the world...

The service bulletin is available right here on Miata.net in the Garage section, under Service Bulletins section: R087/17 - RF Engine will not start due to Battery being discharged

Applies only to ND with RF

Text:
Subject: Engine will not start due to Battery being discharged

DESCRIPTION
On some vehicles, the engine will not start due to the battery being discharged.
This concern occurs on Retractable Fastback models equipped with Type A Instrument Cluster
with Multi-information Display (MID).

CAUSE
Due to a software error of the speedometer of type A instrument cluster, a dark current of 80 mA
continues to flow after the ignition is turned off in the conditions listed below. Thereby, if the vehicle
is not used for many days and left in this condition, the battery is discharged.
NOTE: A normal dark current value is about 25 – 45 mA.

Condition that the dark current of 80mA starts flowing
While Auto Cruise Control (ACC) or Adjustable Speed Limiter (ASL) is being operated or activated (when one of the ACC/ASL indicators is ON in MID as shown in figure), the ignition is switched off.
If the above condition is set, the microcomputer is not shifted into the sleep mode and the operation current of 80 mA continues flowing. If the ignition is switched off after ACC or ASL is turned off, this concern does not occur.

MASS-PRODUCTION CHANGE
The software of meter set has been changed.

SUBJECT VIN & PRODUCTION DATE RANGE
Spec. VIN Range Production Date Range
Australia JM0 ND**** ** 102832 - 103748 Oct. 25, 2016 - May 16, 2017
General (R.H.D.) JM6 ND**** ** 100479 - 100585 Nov. 1, 2016 - May 16, 2017
General (L.H.D.) JM7 ND**** ** 100871 - 101257 Nov. 1, 2016 - May 16, 2017
Europe (L.H.D. & UK Specs.) JMZ ND**** ** 121365 - 132290 Oct. 4, 2016 - May 16, 2017
US (2017 MY) with
Retractable Fastback
JM1 NDAL** H*
JM1 NDAM** H* 100016 - 106475 Oct. 4, 2016 - May 16 , 2017

REPAIR PROCEDURE
When you receive a customer complaint on this concern, use the following procedure.
1. Confirm with the customer the situation when the problem occurred asking if:
? The ignition was turned off while ACC or ASL was operating.
? The vehicle was left in this condition and not used for many days.
2. Explain to the customer the following:
? There will be a software update for instrument cluster available in the near future to solve this
concern.
? For the time being, to avoid further occurrence of this case, please always switch off ACC or
ASL before IGN OFF.
3. If the customer insists on an immediate repair, replace the speedometer (instrument cluster)
with a modified one according to the workshop manual “INSTRUMENT CLUSTER
REMOVAL/INSTALLATION”.
NOTE: Please explain to the customer that replacement of instrument cluster will cause the
mileage being set to “0” km (miles).
PARTS INFORMATION
Part Number
(NEW)
Part Number
(OLD) Description Qty. Remark
NC9B-55-471C NC9B-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1
Check Parts
Catalogue for the
part number
applicable to the
vehicle in repair.
NC9C-55-471C NC9C-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1
NA2E-55-471C NA2E-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1
NC9H-55-471C NC9H-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1
NC9S-55-471C NC9S-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1
NA5L-55-471C NA5L-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1

Advice subsequently is that a software fix WILL NOT be applied and that the instrument panel is to be replaced. Mine is getting done in Feb.

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Friday 12th January
quotequote all
Mazda HQ have published a world wide bulletin for RFs built up to the middle of 2017.


[I]Service Bulletin R087/17 on December 26, 2017 from Mazda HQ Japan to the world...

The service bulletin is available right here on Miata.net in the Garage section, under Service Bulletins section: R087/17 - RF Engine will not start due to Battery being discharged

Applies only to ND with RF

Text:
Subject: Engine will not start due to Battery being discharged

DESCRIPTION
On some vehicles, the engine will not start due to the battery being discharged.
This concern occurs on Retractable Fastback models equipped with Type A Instrument Cluster
with Multi-information Display (MID).

CAUSE
Due to a software error of the speedometer of type A instrument cluster, a dark current of 80 mA
continues to flow after the ignition is turned off in the conditions listed below. Thereby, if the vehicle
is not used for many days and left in this condition, the battery is discharged.
NOTE: A normal dark current value is about 25 – 45 mA.

Condition that the dark current of 80mA starts flowing
While Auto Cruise Control (ACC) or Adjustable Speed Limiter (ASL) is being operated or activated (when one of the ACC/ASL indicators is ON in MID as shown in figure), the ignition is switched off.
If the above condition is set, the microcomputer is not shifted into the sleep mode and the operation current of 80 mA continues flowing. If the ignition is switched off after ACC or ASL is turned off, this concern does not occur.

MASS-PRODUCTION CHANGE
The software of meter set has been changed.

SUBJECT VIN & PRODUCTION DATE RANGE
Spec. VIN Range Production Date Range
Australia JM0 ND**** ** 102832 - 103748 Oct. 25, 2016 - May 16, 2017
General (R.H.D.) JM6 ND**** ** 100479 - 100585 Nov. 1, 2016 - May 16, 2017
General (L.H.D.) JM7 ND**** ** 100871 - 101257 Nov. 1, 2016 - May 16, 2017
Europe (L.H.D. & UK Specs.) JMZ ND**** ** 121365 - 132290 Oct. 4, 2016 - May 16, 2017
US (2017 MY) with
Retractable Fastback
JM1 NDAL** H*
JM1 NDAM** H* 100016 - 106475 Oct. 4, 2016 - May 16 , 2017

REPAIR PROCEDURE
When you receive a customer complaint on this concern, use the following procedure.
1. Confirm with the customer the situation when the problem occurred asking if:
 The ignition was turned off while ACC or ASL was operating.
 The vehicle was left in this condition and not used for many days.
2. Explain to the customer the following:
 There will be a software update for instrument cluster available in the near future to solve this
concern.
 For the time being, to avoid further occurrence of this case, please always switch off ACC or
ASL before IGN OFF.
3. If the customer insists on an immediate repair, replace the speedometer (instrument cluster)
with a modified one according to the workshop manual “INSTRUMENT CLUSTER
REMOVAL/INSTALLATION”.
NOTE: Please explain to the customer that replacement of instrument cluster will cause the
mileage being set to “0” km (miles).
PARTS INFORMATION
Part Number
(NEW)
Part Number
(OLD) Description Qty. Remark
NC9B-55-471C NC9B-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1
Check Parts
Catalogue for the
part number
applicable to the
vehicle in repair.
NC9C-55-471C NC9C-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1
NA2E-55-471C NA2E-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1
NC9H-55-471C NC9H-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1
NC9S-55-471C NC9S-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1
NA5L-55-471C NA5L-55-471B SPEEDOMETER 1[/I]

Advice subsequently is that a software fix WILL NOT be applied and that the instrument panel is to be replaced. Mine is getting done in Feb.

Stephen Riley1506

5 posts

7 months

Saturday 20th January
quotequote all
I took the errant car into the dealer complete with copies of this bulletin and a similar comment form UK customer assistance. The dealer told me that they did not have this bulletin and should they receive one the may react on it. In the mean time they had it in for two days and found, they said, a loose connection in the dash bundle and re connecting this reduced the current draw to 0.02 amps. So we will have to wait and see. It came back with a Keyless System error which they put down to the rubber button being faulty in the door handle. We are waiting for a replacement.

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Sunday 21st January
quotequote all
Stephen Riley1506 said:
I took the errant car into the dealer complete with copies of this bulletin and a similar comment form UK customer assistance. The dealer told me that they did not have this bulletin and should they receive one the may react on it. In the mean time they had it in for two days and found, they said, a loose connection in the dash bundle and re connecting this reduced the current draw to 0.02 amps. So we will have to wait and see. It came back with a Keyless System error which they put down to the rubber button being faulty in the door handle. We are waiting for a replacement.
It’s a “worldwide” bulletin from Mazda HQ Hiroshima dated 26th Dec ‘17. There is no way known than Mazda UK hasn’t received it. They may not have shared it with their dealer network, but Mazda UK have definitely received it, Take it up directly with them.

Edited by RBH58 on Sunday 21st January 12:14

colin-xkigu

1 posts

5 months

Thursday 29th March
quotequote all
Just wanted to share my experience on this issue as I've found the forums useful.

I took delivery last March and during the summer I experienced the battery draining so as the car would not start - after leaving for 2-3 weeks at a time. My dealer said it was probably normal and I borrowed a heavy duty charger from a friend to restore the almost-flat battery.

On the fourth time this occurred, in December 2017, I had no way of starting the car and needed it for a journey. I also no longer had the heavy duty charger and my cheapo charger that keeps my other car topped up wouldn't resuscitate it. However I knew due to the forums there was a global issue with the RF.

I called the dealer but they could not see the car for a further 11 days (!) and I'd need to bring it to them (impossible as I explained to them) and had no courtesy car available either. I remarked that they were being very unhelpful and they suggested I call Mazda UK. Mazda UK advised I recover the car via Mazda Assist. Mazda Assist then needed additional instruction from Mazda UK to do a 'direct recovery' to the dealer.

The car was trailered away the next day, albeit Mazda Assist refused to load it onto the trailer, requiring me to load it on while the power steering was kicking in and out. The dealer diagnosed a battery drain and spoke with Mazda UK who confirmed there is a worldwide issue with the cruise control module, and a software update will be rolled out.

The dealer also checked/charged the battery and returned it to my home address - sadly with mud up the side and a badly kerbed wheel (which to compound matters was denied and argued about, and only resolved by them after I produced photographs of the car loaded onto the trailer - most people wouldn't have bothered with photos and I consider myself rather lucky). This follows an earlier incident where they incurred a speeding ticket returning it to me after fixing a dent that was in it on the day I collected it brand new.

In February the dealer had it in to replace the wheel and install the software update. Sadly the software wasn't actually available - they'd confused the bulletin with the issuing of the software.

In March the first service and the software update were performed. I very much hope that the car has no battery drain issue, one year on, though I don't intend to check!

If there is a lesson here it is that there is an issue, and that, sadly, that you probably have to persevere, negotiate, remain calm, and assemble internet and photographic evidence along the way when engaging with one of Mazda's dealers on something that's not a routine issue.

It's just as well the RF is otherwise a delight to drive and own - I still wouldn't pick anything else.


Edited by colin-xkigu on Thursday 29th March 16:48

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Friday 30th March
quotequote all
The software fix has definitely worked. My car has just been left undriven for 3 weeks (with the cruise deliberately left in the “on” position to prove the point) and it started no problems. Before, 12-14 days would have been the limit. So, Mazda do have a fix.

For some reason though, they are not fitting it as a “next service item” and seem to be waiting for the customer to complain. Seeing as Mazda have confirmed that ALL Pre-Mid-May-17 build RFs are affected, this strikes me as borderline unethical.

Edited by RBH58 on Friday 30th March 00:34

Mort7

19 posts

40 months

Wednesday 4th April
quotequote all
Thanks for highlighting this.

I've just checked with my dealership to see if there is an outstanding recall on my recently purchased RF Launch Edition, which falls within the VIN range. The Service Manager seemed surprised by my phone call, because the bulletin was only received by them yesterday. It's under a different number to the one quoted above (sorry, I didn't note it down) but is essentially the same.

I have mine booked in a couple of weeks time. Apparently they've done one already, and it takes about 40 minutes.

Nick

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Wednesday 4th April
quotequote all
It is probably the case that Mazda has reissued the TSB because, whilst the problem was officially acknowledged on 26th Dec 17, the final software fix was not available at the time and early complainers got a new instrument cluster as a fix. I expect the new TSB was published because a software fix is now available.

I’m glad I got the software fix. The idea of the dealership pulling the dashboard out of my new car didn’t excite me greatly.

whicko

1 posts

4 months

Wednesday 18th April
quotequote all
I had my 6 month old Mazda MX5 RF in the dealers today to replace a damaged airdam skirt,whilst it was in I was told there was a recall on the vehicle due to the battery draining,after taking delivery of my vehicle I went on holiday for 2 weeks & left the vehicle in an airport car park,upon return the battery was drained,I notified the dealership who made a note of it on my records & wanted to keep the vehicle for 3 days,I declined & told them I'd keep an eye on it myself,2 months on they have done an update to the instrument cluster which apparently will solve the issue,fingers crossed!

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Thursday 19th April
quotequote all
whicko said:
I had my 6 month old Mazda MX5 RF in the dealers today to replace a damaged airdam skirt,whilst it was in I was told there was a recall on the vehicle due to the battery draining,after taking delivery of my vehicle I went on holiday for 2 weeks & left the vehicle in an airport car park,upon return the battery was drained,I notified the dealership who made a note of it on my records & wanted to keep the vehicle for 3 days,I declined & told them I'd keep an eye on it myself,2 months on they have done an update to the instrument cluster which apparently will solve the issue,fingers crossed!
Yes, Mazda USA have started to be proactive on the issue. The software fix works BTW

RBH58

Original Poster:

921 posts

67 months

Thursday 19th April
quotequote all
whicko said:
I had my 6 month old Mazda MX5 RF in the dealers today to replace a damaged airdam skirt,whilst it was in I was told there was a recall on the vehicle due to the battery draining,after taking delivery of my vehicle I went on holiday for 2 weeks & left the vehicle in an airport car park,upon return the battery was drained,I notified the dealership who made a note of it on my records & wanted to keep the vehicle for 3 days,I declined & told them I'd keep an eye on it myself,2 months on they have done an update to the instrument cluster which apparently will solve the issue,fingers crossed!
Yes, Mazda USA have started to be proactive on the issue. The software fix works BTW

MX5-RF

1 posts

3 months

Thursday 17th May
quotequote all
I have experienced the same issue with my Mazda MX5-RF purchased new in May 2017. The battery would drain if not driven for about 10 or 12 days. The dealer (Eagers Mazda in Newstead - Brisbane Australia) replaced the battery on 20/11/2017 under warranty (old case # 1413650), the fault however still persisted.

When the fault reoccurred in March 2018, I logged a job with Mazda Australia (Case Number - 1442954) and provided evidence obtained from this website (Pistonheads) citing the same issues being experienced by other MX5-RF owners around the world as proof that there was a broader issue at play. By the way, interestingly enough my cruise-control was actually switched-off on the two occasions when the battery went flat.

In early April 2018 Mazda Australia arranged for one of their senior technicians to attend in-person at the Brisbane dealer’s garage to apply a brand new software update to my car. As I ride a bike to work each day I had the ability to cooperate with the dealer and proposed to not drive my car for 2 weeks after the software patch was applied and I am happy to report that the problem appears to be fixed.

After the software update was performed, I took the car home and proceeded to meter the battery every night for 16 days straight and confirmed that the ‘dark current loss’ was reduced to only 0.03 volts per day which is quite good. The battery had 12.81 volts of charge on day 1, and 12.25 volts of charge still remaining after 16 days of not being driven. I was then able to start the car as per normal (yah hoo!). On that basis I calculated my car should still start after about 4 to 6 weeks of not being driven (….the same as my previous three MX-5’s I have owned over the past 20 years). I have provided documentation to this effect back to Mazda Australia confirming that there latest software version appears to be a winner in the hope that it might also help other MX-5 RF owners afflicted with this same insidious issue.

In my experience I found both the dealer in Brisbane (Eagers Mazda at Newstead) and Mazda Australia have been helpful and professional in trying to get this issue resolved for me and I am thankful for that.

I wish you all a similar outcome. I hope that your confidence in the reliability of your new MX-5 RF is restored (...it's a good machine). Happy motoring!






Edited by MX5-RF on Thursday 17th May 13:10