Discussion
Matt Harper said:
My daily driver is an 06 Suburban Extended Length with a Vortec. Overall it is very capable, huge inside, well-appointed, comfortable and powerful. Pulls my 20 foot boat like it isn't there and will cruise comfortably at 90-100mph. It was not much cheaper than the equivilant Yukon, but I bought it as a work vehicle, so didn't need the leather seats. 'Excalade' has a bit of an image problem on this side of the Atlantic. One thing to consider, not all 'burbans and Yukes are 4x4 - in fact mine is a RWD car (less imortant down here in FL - but a real consideration up in the Perma-frost of America-Lite.) My car averages 16mpg and filling the tank is a $100 affair, so bear that in mind also.
3rd row seats are removeable of course (but a two man job, as the seat unit is so frickin' heavy) and is a really useful option if you have a constant stream of visitors from the 'old country'.
Hi Matt. I had heard about the image concerns from a few friends over that side, however image has never really been a major concern of mine. That said I am looking for the best of both worlds here I suppose in a well specced SUV with all the toys + good lugging ability and a smattering of 4*4 ability. What are the costs of getting either the Chevvy or the GMC with 4*4 ability ?3rd row seats are removeable of course (but a two man job, as the seat unit is so frickin' heavy) and is a really useful option if you have a constant stream of visitors from the 'old country'.
lenandsons said:
Hi Matt. I had heard about the image concerns from a few friends over that side, however image has never really been a major concern of mine. That said I am looking for the best of both worlds here I suppose in a well specced SUV with all the toys + good lugging ability and a smattering of 4*4 ability. What are the costs of getting either the Chevvy or the GMC with 4*4 ability ?
I don't think the Escalade is considered a utilitarian vehicle. It's more an up-market 'soccer-mom-mobile' (a Chelsea Tractor in UK vernacular?) or a gang-banger's bling-bus. I've never seen one at my local boat ramp - or on the road hauling anything for that matter. They're not really worth the extra money - particularly when you consider the running-gear is the same as the Suburban/Yukon.I paid $36k for my Suburban with a few extras in that price (3rd row, tow package, rear air, black-out tints, premium audio). AWD would have added about $1200 and I'd have definitely added that, had I lived in a snow state. Downside of 4x4 is minimal - slightly heavier on gas and tyres.
The Z71 pack (H-Duty suspension, diff-lock, bigger air cleaner etc) is available on LT2/3 trim Suburbans. I guess it would give a little more suspension travel if you really do feel the need to go crashing about in the undergrowth. Based on my personal experience of the car, I think it would be a lot happier on tarmac than off. I understand that there is a lot of wilderness in Canada - but I don't think the kanuks let you drive on much of it anymore - 'tread softly' an' all that...
Just arranged a trip to Toronto in September to kick off our perm residence there. Had a look at the Hertz site and found that I can hire an Escalade and a Yukon from them, so will do a split hire and let you all know what I think when I get back. Thanks for all the info/comments so far
The winter in Toronto is quite mild and the snowline north of the city has been moving further north for quite some time now.
I use a 2WD pickup all year round and I don't bother with snow tyres.
Last winter we had one ass rippin storm in the city and on that day I happened to have a 4WD Dodge Ram 1500 which really plowed through the snow quite well. I also drove my own truck in the same storm and it did OK as long as I got a good run at hills and/or drifts. Biggest problem for my truck was losing momentum behind incompetent drivers who grew up riding bicycles in warm countries and couldn’t drive a shovel into a pile of shit.
As for skiing; usually you just drive there on a road and park in a parking lot; there's isn't really any off-roading to be done.
However, if you were to go skiing at Blue Mountain which is about 3 hours north of TO you would be well into the snow belt and may or may not get caught in some heavy weather but I wouldn't consider it a problem. Long before SUVs and 4WD became popular we just drove around the rural areas in big RWD cars and never thought twice about going anywhere anytime.
If you have no experience in severe winter driving then a 4WD will make life easier in the event that you get caught in a storm but your biggest problem will be that lack of driving experience regardless of what type of vehicle you have. I see lots of SUVs going off the road in moderate weather conditions where people in cars are doing just fine.
Edit:
When driving in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) keep in mind that people run red lights all the time. It's a bit of a problem.
Edited by Joe Rotax on Tuesday 21st August 04:55
Joe Rotax said:
The winter in Toronto is quite mild and the snowline north of the city has been moving further north for quite some time now.
I use a 2WD pickup all year round and I don't bother with snow tyres.
Last winter we had one ass rippin storm in the city and on that day I happened to have a 4WD Dodge Ram 1500 which really plowed through the snow quite well. I also drove my own truck in the same storm and it did OK as long as I got a good run at hills and/or drifts. Biggest problem for my truck was losing momentum behind incompetent drivers who grew up riding bicycles in warm countries and couldn’t drive a shovel into a pile of shit.
As for skiing; usually you just drive there on a road and park in a parking lot; there's isn't really any off-roading to be done.
However, if you were to go skiing at Blue Mountain which is about 3 hours north of TO you would be well into the snow belt and may or may not get caught in some heavy weather but I wouldn't consider it a problem. Long before SUVs and 4WD became popular we just drove around the rural areas in big RWD cars and never thought twice about going anywhere anytime.
If you have no experience in severe winter driving then a 4WD will make life easier in the event that you get caught in a storm but your biggest problem will be that lack of driving experience regardless of what type of vehicle you have. I see lots of SUVs going off the road in moderate weather conditions where people in cars are doing just fine.
Edit:
When driving in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) keep in mind that people run red lights all the time. It's a bit of a problem.
Hi JoeI use a 2WD pickup all year round and I don't bother with snow tyres.
Last winter we had one ass rippin storm in the city and on that day I happened to have a 4WD Dodge Ram 1500 which really plowed through the snow quite well. I also drove my own truck in the same storm and it did OK as long as I got a good run at hills and/or drifts. Biggest problem for my truck was losing momentum behind incompetent drivers who grew up riding bicycles in warm countries and couldn’t drive a shovel into a pile of shit.
As for skiing; usually you just drive there on a road and park in a parking lot; there's isn't really any off-roading to be done.
However, if you were to go skiing at Blue Mountain which is about 3 hours north of TO you would be well into the snow belt and may or may not get caught in some heavy weather but I wouldn't consider it a problem. Long before SUVs and 4WD became popular we just drove around the rural areas in big RWD cars and never thought twice about going anywhere anytime.
If you have no experience in severe winter driving then a 4WD will make life easier in the event that you get caught in a storm but your biggest problem will be that lack of driving experience regardless of what type of vehicle you have. I see lots of SUVs going off the road in moderate weather conditions where people in cars are doing just fine.
Edit:
When driving in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) keep in mind that people run red lights all the time. It's a bit of a problem.
Edited by Joe Rotax on Tuesday 21st August 04:55
Thanks for the info, when you talk about mild winter, how mild is mild? I have experienced the GTA red light runners first hand, makes for "interesting" times to say the least. When I was last in TO driving a hired Grand Cherokee I almost had a large repair bill due to one of these guys. As for snow driving, I have rather limited experience unfortunately, are there advanced drivers courses that cover this? Part of my reasoning behing the 4*4 want is based on experiences friends in GTA have had, especially in the Blue Mountain area, they got stuck in the snow in their 2 wheel drive people carrier and needed a tow to get out, as I will have a baby in the car, last thing I need is to spend an hour or so stuck in the cold with a jnr on board.
In the city during the winter it’s just cold and dreary for the most part and eventually some snow gets piled up here and there but the roads are nearly always clear. It’s like we get an inch of snow every now and again which will make the roads slippery for a bit and then it’s usually just salted so it turns to wet sludge; if there’s enough they might plough it but it’s rare that we have situations where the roads are impassable. As I said earlier, we got one good storm last year with a lot of snow in a fews hours and I managed to get through it with a peg-leg pickup truck but that said, the Dodge 4WD that I mentioned got through it effortlessly.
A bigger issue than the amount snow on the ground is black ice and changing surface conditions; this becomes more of a problem outside the city where highway speeds are greater although it happens in the city as well so you still have to watch out for it. Essentially, you can be driving along on dry pavement and suddenly find yourself on a patch of snow/ice which might only go for a hundred feet or so. In that kind of situation it doesn’t matter what type of vehicle you’re driving because they all slip and slide pretty good on ice. The snow/ice patches, you can see them coming but black ice is problematic because it’s difficult to see on pavement. White-outs are another cheery situation to be in; usually this only happens in rural areas where there are hills beside the road and it occurs when blowing snow gets whipped up all around you and you can’t see a damn thing. NB - when driving in blizzard conditions at night use your low beams so that you can see better.
Over thirty years ago we used to get a tremendous amount of snow but the climate has changed and as I said the snow line (which used to be highway 7) has moved north. However, the further north you go the more snow you get so up around Newmarket they still get quite a bit but nowhere near what it used to be like.
Getting around in the winter is not terribly difficult and I expect you’ll just get on with it like everyone else. I’ve never owned a 4WD vehicle and as I said we all got by for generations w/out them but the bottom line is safety and there’s no doubt that you would be leaving less to chance if you bought something with 4WD. If it saves your ass once it’s money well spent and heading up to Collingwood with children in the vehicle you do not want get stuck in a pile of snow somewhere.
This was taken in Toronto last February. Typical accumulation of snow for that time of year.
Typical side road about 40 miles north of TO.
A bigger issue than the amount snow on the ground is black ice and changing surface conditions; this becomes more of a problem outside the city where highway speeds are greater although it happens in the city as well so you still have to watch out for it. Essentially, you can be driving along on dry pavement and suddenly find yourself on a patch of snow/ice which might only go for a hundred feet or so. In that kind of situation it doesn’t matter what type of vehicle you’re driving because they all slip and slide pretty good on ice. The snow/ice patches, you can see them coming but black ice is problematic because it’s difficult to see on pavement. White-outs are another cheery situation to be in; usually this only happens in rural areas where there are hills beside the road and it occurs when blowing snow gets whipped up all around you and you can’t see a damn thing. NB - when driving in blizzard conditions at night use your low beams so that you can see better.
Over thirty years ago we used to get a tremendous amount of snow but the climate has changed and as I said the snow line (which used to be highway 7) has moved north. However, the further north you go the more snow you get so up around Newmarket they still get quite a bit but nowhere near what it used to be like.
Getting around in the winter is not terribly difficult and I expect you’ll just get on with it like everyone else. I’ve never owned a 4WD vehicle and as I said we all got by for generations w/out them but the bottom line is safety and there’s no doubt that you would be leaving less to chance if you bought something with 4WD. If it saves your ass once it’s money well spent and heading up to Collingwood with children in the vehicle you do not want get stuck in a pile of snow somewhere.
This was taken in Toronto last February. Typical accumulation of snow for that time of year.
Typical side road about 40 miles north of TO.
Edited by Joe Rotax on Friday 24th August 19:27
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