RE: Hot Caddy CTS Diesel on the Way
Discussion
MrVelox said:
Bladedancer said:
Do you even read post you comment? I already said, several times, that I consider CTS a good car. Got that? Interior is typically american though. And yes, imagine that other car at the end of the motor show stayed together. CTS isn't my first contact with american motoring. I've seen 300C and Mustang in action and they follow the same pattern - great looks, engines, good all round but cabin just isn't what it should be. That's it.
Of course in most cases US car don't handle as well as european or japanese but have better ride quality.
As for 160k rattle free - nothing new. Had Volvo 850 - sold it at 155k with no rattles and factory engine compression. Had Saab 95 sold it at 130k - same thing, perfect turbo spool, no smoke. Merc, regretfully, ended with W124.
I read your post, you initially berated the car because a piece of seat trim fell off of a Motor Show car. I also own European cars and I don't think that the new CTS is behind them as far as the interior goes. My 06 STS is below the standards of a BMW/Merc however (The door cards look like they were made from plastic garbage cans) when it comes to interior appearance. But the car has been far more reliable than any European car I have ever owned and the interior does not squeak and rattle.Of course in most cases US car don't handle as well as european or japanese but have better ride quality.
As for 160k rattle free - nothing new. Had Volvo 850 - sold it at 155k with no rattles and factory engine compression. Had Saab 95 sold it at 130k - same thing, perfect turbo spool, no smoke. Merc, regretfully, ended with W124.
Funny, my STS replaced an S80 T6.. two transmissions, 1 engine, in under 36k miles. Interior fit and finish, appearance wise was nicer, but the thing had a sunroof that never stopped rattling, squeaks and clunks from the front suspension that the dealer was never able to fix.. etc. The best part was the mobile phone that came with the car, it was obsolete the day I bought the car and could not be activated!
But you mention that it's a quality issue. To me, a quality car is one that does not break. Owning recent Volvos has shown to me that they are garbage. And you want to talk about Audi quality.. ok, the interiors might look nice, but after a few years the rubber coating has rubbed off most of the buttons, the interior is falling to pieces and the car is causing staggering repair bills. Saab? You're joking, right? 9-5s tend to eat turbos, transmissions, have constant electrical issues, you name it.
Saab - take a pre 2000 one. Will serve you well. Never had any problems and the guys at the workshop said that along with the facelift (was it 1999? or 2000?) Saab's quality just sunk (much like Volvo really). Of course 95 is nothing like 9000 but still good (initial edition at least).
One more thing - don't know how to drive a turbo? Don't buy one. Eating turbos is ofter caused by people driving it hard right of the start and not cooling it down before switching off the engine. Oil circulation ceases and turbo overheats - bang. Need a new one - but You killed it!
I only pointed out the 160k miles is NOTHING and proves nothing. Cars should be good for 250-300k easily (providing serviced correctly and not abused). Any normal car (non supercar) that requires engine overhaul after 100k has something wrong with it (probably accountants cutting costs blindly).
There are cars out there that did milion km without issue. I think 250k miles isn't much to ask.
And all I said was that INTERIOR quality is below Merc/Bmw standard. Because tt is. Proven fact. Overral mechanical reliability is completelly different story. Heck, even Japs aren't what they used to be and you should really make sure that your VIN starts with J. Cost-cutting gets everywhere these days.
I understand you love your cars. It does you credit. But let's be honest. You can't say they are perfect beacuse there is no such thing as a perfect car. Accept that your favourite one has it's flaws.
I've accepted long ago that I will never buy a Volvo again.
Edited by Bladedancer on Wednesday 22 October 15:36
Le Man said:
You are Victor Meldrew aren't you?
I only expect companies to provide quality I pay them for. Maybe you don't mind paying a small fortune for a piece of crap that will continously brake down but I do. Is that to much to ask?Volvo & Saab quality sinking after americans took companies over is no consporacy theory - look at reliability statictics and consumer satisfaction surveys. I had a franchise Saab garage like 100 yards from home, I had friends there and I know how GM ruined that make. Year by year Saabs we're getting worse and more like Vauxhall/Opel Vectra. You may do a lot of miles around NY but I do a lot around UK, Germany and France and I see what is being picked from the hard shoulder by AA and ADAC.
But americans have difficulty digesting the fact that they are not the most important, nor the wisest nation on Earth and that they are no always right. To tell the truth, they are rarely right.
Edited by Bladedancer on Thursday 23 October 07:57
Le Man said:
You make a good point Victor. I do just love a mindless, pointless, xenophobic rant.
Now you seem to be assembling a fair list of cars you'll never own.
Feel free to add ours and then let's move on.
Life's too short.
Said a man who showed contempt to someone just because he dared to point something bad about his beloved car.Now you seem to be assembling a fair list of cars you'll never own.
Feel free to add ours and then let's move on.
Life's too short.
Now I know why USA attacked Iraq. It wasn't about terrorism or oil. They just said something about US cars, didn't they?
Ps. Have you voted for G.W. Bush by any chance?
Edited by Bladedancer on Thursday 23 October 14:24
Dear Mr Meldrew,
A cursory scrutiny of my profile would reveal that I am indeed British and therefore ineligible to vote in the US presidential elections.
If you read back a short way, you will see that what I gave you was in fact disdain, although this has now gravitated somewhat to pity.
A cursory scrutiny of my profile would reveal that I am indeed British and therefore ineligible to vote in the US presidential elections.
If you read back a short way, you will see that what I gave you was in fact disdain, although this has now gravitated somewhat to pity.
Edited by Le Man on Thursday 23 October 19:40
Bladedancer said:
Le Man said:
You are Victor Meldrew aren't you?
I only expect companies to provide quality I pay them for. Maybe you don't mind paying a small fortune for a piece of crap that will continously brake down but I do. Is that to much to ask?Volvo & Saab quality sinking after americans took companies over is no consporacy theory - look at reliability statictics and consumer satisfaction surveys. I had a franchise Saab garage like 100 yards from home, I had friends there and I know how GM ruined that make. Year by year Saabs we're getting worse and more like Vauxhall/Opel Vectra. You may do a lot of miles around NY but I do a lot around UK, Germany and France and I see what is being picked from the hard shoulder by AA and ADAC.
But americans have difficulty digesting the fact that they are not the most important, nor the wisest nation on Earth and that they are no always right. To tell the truth, they are rarely right.
Edited by Bladedancer on Thursday 23 October 07:57
What Swedish cars have to do with Cadillacs is beyond me. You can claim that American ownership of said brands ruined them, but, again, that has absolutely nothing to do with Cadillacs.
Cadillac has had some substantial quality issues, as have virtually all automobile manufacturers. However, from a technological standpoint, they have generally been further ahead of the curve than most any other automobile manufacturer on the planet.
But, again, that's besides the point here. I once saw a Rolls-Royce throw a connecting rod through the side of the block at less than 10,000 miles. The car was about 15 months old at the time. It had not been abused and had been serviced according to schedule. By that one simple incident, we must then assume that English cars are rubbish by your logic? Of course not, that would be foolish and short-sighted.
Of course, whilst bashing English cars we could go on a side rant and list stereotypical failings of British culture, whether accurate or not, and then attack the present Government, but that would only make it look like we were clutching at straws and incapable of intelligently debating the subject matter at hand.
So we won't do that.
My point about driving in the New York City area was to illustrate that conditions here are far harsher than driving conditions anywhere in the United Kingdom. Our winters tend to be much colder, with lots of snow and salt, our summers are far warmer with temperatures routinely in excess of 35C, our roads, often due to our climactic conditions, are in far worse condition than any I have encountered in the UK.
Under far harsher conditions than you are likely to encounter, my Cadillac has performed flawlessly. I agree that the interior plastic leave a lot to be desired, Cadillac has finally improved upon that with the new CTS. Is it perfect? No car is perfect. Is it a very well made automobile? Yes it is.
Do I think you will ever buy one? No.
Do I give a toss? No.
MrVelox said:
GM Bought into SAAB in 1990, when they were losing money hand over fist. They completed the purchase in 2000. The New Generation 900 (Which was a pile of garbage) debuted around 1993, no?
CorrectMrVelox said:
What Swedish cars have to do with Cadillacs is beyond me. You can claim that American ownership of said brands ruined them, but, again, that has absolutely nothing to do with Cadillacs.
Please point where I said it had anything to do with Cadillac. I only pointed out that 160k without issue is nothing special for a car as most 199ties cars do that anyway.MrVelox said:
Cadillac has had some substantial quality issues, as have virtually all automobile manufacturers. However, from a technological standpoint, they have generally been further ahead of the curve than most any other automobile manufacturer on the planet.
Agreed.MrVelox said:
But, again, that's besides the point here. I once saw a Rolls-Royce throw a connecting rod through the side of the block at less than 10,000 miles. The car was about 15 months old at the time. It had not been abused and had been serviced according to schedule. By that one simple incident, we must then assume that English cars are rubbish by your logic? Of course not, that would be foolish and short-sighted.
Of course not. But there is such thing as statistics. I wouldn't dream of saying that all English are arrogant and megalomaniac after reading Le Man's posts. But if 80% of posts were like that such an idea might come to my mind.MrVelox said:
Of course, whilst bashing English cars we could go on a side rant and list stereotypical failings of British culture, whether accurate or not, and then attack the present Government, but that would only make it look like we were clutching at straws and incapable of intelligently debating the subject matter at hand.
Everyone has good days and bad days. You can't say that XJS was one the good side. Aston, TVR and XJ8 however... sweet.MrVelox said:
My point about driving in the New York City area was to illustrate that conditions here are far harsher than driving conditions anywhere in the United Kingdom. Our winters tend to be much colder, with lots of snow and salt, our summers are far warmer with temperatures routinely in excess of 35C, our roads, often due to our climactic conditions, are in far worse condition than any I have encountered in the UK.
If only we could get past 30 in UK...You make an incorrect assumption that both Volvo and Saab I've driven in the UK. They performed where BMW and Merc failed, in -35 European continental winter.
MrVelox said:
Under far harsher conditions than you are likely to encounter, my Cadillac has performed flawlessly. I agree that the interior plastic leave a lot to be desired, Cadillac has finally improved upon that with the new CTS. Is it perfect? No car is perfect. Is it a very well made automobile? Yes it is.
And after countless posts we come to the same conclussion. Incredible isn't it?All I pointed out was the interior is below BMW/Merc. That's it. I don't know how reliable Cadillacs are or how they handle on the road - which is preciesly why I didn't make any comment about it. Apart from BLS, which is Saab 93 essentially, and Escalade, which is rather impractical on UK roads, Cadillacs present attractive range - mostly when it comes to price and value for money. Bear in mind that although it is a prestige marque in USA in Europe it has to prove that it deserves that title. It's just moving in and previous grey import was nowhere near enough to make people notice it.
And mind you - if they were selling RHD CTS-V in UK I would start saving money now.
Edited by Bladedancer on Friday 24th October 08:12
Le Man said:
Dear Mr Meldrew,
A cursory scrutiny of my profile would reveal that I am indeed British and therefore ineligible to vote in the US presidential elections.
If you read back a short way, you will see that what I gave you was in fact disdain, although this has now gravitated somewhat to pity.
I read your profile all right. Your approach towards other poeple is very much like Mr Bush - beat into submission, show'em USA is the way to go no matter what, if unsuccessfull call rasict or terrorist. Then bomb them and send troops.A cursory scrutiny of my profile would reveal that I am indeed British and therefore ineligible to vote in the US presidential elections.
If you read back a short way, you will see that what I gave you was in fact disdain, although this has now gravitated somewhat to pity.
When you write something to make other people feel small and inferior it makes you tick, doesn't it? You get a rush out of it? Showing how great you are, always right, Alfa and Omega.
I guess it's not hard to just pull one thing out of a post and ignore the rest. After all, conducting coherent and logical conversation is much harder than just bashing and humiliating other people so I can't really blame you for going the easiest way possible.
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