Buick Electra 225
Discussion
I really fancy one of these as my next car. The 4 door pillar less design.
There were 2 on ebay that ended recently, a 73 and a 75(although they say the 75 is a 74 in the adverts details) they were both at starting bids of £2500 but no one bid on either.
You will probably have to be logged into ebay to view the auctions as they are completed now.
1975
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1975-BUICK-ELECTRA-BLACK-225...
And
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1973-BUICK-BLUE_W0QQitemZ190...
I think i prefer the look of the '73 but the '75 sounds like it might be the better car of the 2.
Shame i cant afford one at the moment.
What are these like to own etc.
I read that the 1970 455ci engines were full power but by '76 the emissions gear had it down from 375-385ish hp to 205hp. Is it possible to just remove the emissions gear ad get it back up to power?
Any other information and good buick forums tat i can research on would be great. Also are cars of this age likely to rust badly unless they are rust proofed well as at first this would be my only car for a while.
Thanks.
There were 2 on ebay that ended recently, a 73 and a 75(although they say the 75 is a 74 in the adverts details) they were both at starting bids of £2500 but no one bid on either.
You will probably have to be logged into ebay to view the auctions as they are completed now.
1975
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1975-BUICK-ELECTRA-BLACK-225...
And
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1973-BUICK-BLUE_W0QQitemZ190...
I think i prefer the look of the '73 but the '75 sounds like it might be the better car of the 2.
Shame i cant afford one at the moment.
What are these like to own etc.
I read that the 1970 455ci engines were full power but by '76 the emissions gear had it down from 375-385ish hp to 205hp. Is it possible to just remove the emissions gear ad get it back up to power?
Any other information and good buick forums tat i can research on would be great. Also are cars of this age likely to rust badly unless they are rust proofed well as at first this would be my only car for a while.
Thanks.
I don't have any experience of Buicks per se but in general terms:
American cars were quoted in gross hp before 1972 - basically an engine strapped to a bench with carb and open exhaust and no power-sapping accessories - so the power claims were grossly inflated anyway. From 1972, the figure quoted was SAE with alternator/power steering and all ancillaries sapping the power quite significantly.
At around the same time, the fuel crisis made V8s anti-social and emissions became an issue. 5 start fuel disappeared and unleaded became the fuel of choice. This meant that compression ratios fell drastically.
Accordingly, removing the emission equipment still leaves a low-compression "smogger" with restricted intake and exhaust requiring a lot of work to restore it to a full power V8. Some V8s produced as little as 135hp in the "malaise era" but they had enough torque to still make them nice waftmobiles.
70's full-size American cars will be a culture shock - immensely soft in the suspension department and the steering was generally completely devoid of feel with very little relation between turning the wheel and the wheels eventually turning. Brakes are often massive drums with considerable thought required before stopping.
All cars of this era will rust although since they are 40 years old, it's not surprising but in generall the steel was quite thick and many survive. Most cars of this size of this era will also do about 10-15mpg so practical they are probably not.
If you want an American V8 as a daily driver, you would be far better off buying something from at least the 80's - Mustangs, Camaros or if you want to go bigger, Impala SS. Parts for these cars are readily available.
American cars were quoted in gross hp before 1972 - basically an engine strapped to a bench with carb and open exhaust and no power-sapping accessories - so the power claims were grossly inflated anyway. From 1972, the figure quoted was SAE with alternator/power steering and all ancillaries sapping the power quite significantly.
At around the same time, the fuel crisis made V8s anti-social and emissions became an issue. 5 start fuel disappeared and unleaded became the fuel of choice. This meant that compression ratios fell drastically.
Accordingly, removing the emission equipment still leaves a low-compression "smogger" with restricted intake and exhaust requiring a lot of work to restore it to a full power V8. Some V8s produced as little as 135hp in the "malaise era" but they had enough torque to still make them nice waftmobiles.
70's full-size American cars will be a culture shock - immensely soft in the suspension department and the steering was generally completely devoid of feel with very little relation between turning the wheel and the wheels eventually turning. Brakes are often massive drums with considerable thought required before stopping.
All cars of this era will rust although since they are 40 years old, it's not surprising but in generall the steel was quite thick and many survive. Most cars of this size of this era will also do about 10-15mpg so practical they are probably not.
If you want an American V8 as a daily driver, you would be far better off buying something from at least the 80's - Mustangs, Camaros or if you want to go bigger, Impala SS. Parts for these cars are readily available.
LuS1fer said:
I don't have any experience of Buicks per se but in general terms:
American cars were quoted in gross hp before 1972 - basically an engine strapped to a bench with carb and open exhaust and no power-sapping accessories - so the power claims were grossly inflated anyway. From 1972, the figure quoted was SAE with alternator/power steering and all ancillaries sapping the power quite significantly.
At around the same time, the fuel crisis made V8s anti-social and emissions became an issue. 5 start fuel disappeared and unleaded became the fuel of choice. This meant that compression ratios fell drastically.
Is it possible to tell how much power these cars have at all? How open can you make the exhausts and how much power could they release?American cars were quoted in gross hp before 1972 - basically an engine strapped to a bench with carb and open exhaust and no power-sapping accessories - so the power claims were grossly inflated anyway. From 1972, the figure quoted was SAE with alternator/power steering and all ancillaries sapping the power quite significantly.
At around the same time, the fuel crisis made V8s anti-social and emissions became an issue. 5 start fuel disappeared and unleaded became the fuel of choice. This meant that compression ratios fell drastically.
LuS1fer said:
Accordingly, removing the emission equipment still leaves a low-compression "smogger" with restricted intake and exhaust requiring a lot of work to restore it to a full power V8. Some V8s produced as little as 135hp in the "malaise era" but they had enough torque to still make them nice waftmobiles.
Driving the MR2 its all about revs really so i fancy something with low down grunt again to cruise round in.LuS1fer said:
70's full-size American cars will be a culture shock - immensely soft in the suspension department and the steering was generally completely devoid of feel with very little relation between turning the wheel and the wheels eventually turning. Brakes are often massive drums with considerable thought required before stopping.
This is more what i'm wondering about. I generally like a good amount of stopping power. I feel its better to pay abit extra to stop well than to not slow in time. This has worked pretty well when, for example, someone in a long van pulled to the centre of a dual carriage way and blocked off half the lane as the centre reservation was about half the length of the vehicle. As there was alot of traffic in the lane next to me it was emergency stop time which it handled better than any 2 tonne car should be able too, but it might not have stopped as standard.
Is it possible to upgrade drum brakes i imagine discs would be awkward as there will be no caliper mounting points.
On the suspension the quality of roads in Leeds seems to get worse every week and the MR2 jiggles about quite abit and as i'm not tiny a car with a bit more room and a smoother ride would be nice and more enjoyable 75% of the time. Together with the low down torque should be nice to cruise in.
The steering would probably be interesting, can the steering be refreshed at all. What sort of age would you be looking at for something that is similar to a more modern car like my 95 MR2 or a similar age Celica etc.
Maybe i need to try and find someone local with a similar type of car so i can get a ride to find out what its like.
LuS1fer said:
All cars of this era will rust although since they are 40 years old, it's not surprising but in generall the steel was quite thick and many survive. Most cars of this size of this era will also do about 10-15mpg so practical they are probably not.
With regards to rust and rust proofing, i was more concerned about the chassis and failing mot's / being dangerous rather than a bit of rust on the body but whatever car i have will be outside year long so will get rained on a fair bit.I had a car that did about 10 mpg, £70 of fuel every 150 miles, not good, but then it didnt ave 10mpg's of performance. Hopefully something with that much grunt should be a bit better when you dont just want to cruise.
LuS1fer said:
If you want an American V8 as a daily driver, you would be far better off buying something from at least the 80's - Mustangs, Camaros or if you want to go bigger, Impala SS. Parts for these cars are readily available.
Are they not all a bit expensive to buy? I would probably only have a couple of thousand to buy the car which i would imagine some of those would be a bit expensive to buy.What i'm really after is something smoother in ride and low down grunt than the MR2. My last V8 was pretty refined and quiet, what i really want is a nice V8 sound, either a nice burble or that american, sort of hollow v8 sound.
Something like this for rumble http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHlCLonetGA&fea...
Or this for the "hollow" sound http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHEe8TQLVxk&NR=...
Do you know what makes these type of noises and how to recreate something similar?
Thanks.
chevy-stu said:
You could get the engine rebuilt to early 70's Trans Am 455 spec... as Lusifer says, gonna demolish the fuel though
Hardly any old cars have no rust...
How much would it cost to have the engine rebuilt to that spec and what kind of power would it then put out, thanks.Hardly any old cars have no rust...
Edited by chevy-stu on Wednesday 18th March 10:59
Car Craft - a US version of Popular Car Mechanics - regularly did articles in the 90's about taking these big block engines and extracting 500hp on a budget but the cost now, what with shipping from the US and lousy exchange rate, might make it quite expensive although partially offset by the 15% VAT rate.
The other option is an aftermarket crate engine which is likely to be more cost effective. These are generally rated at anything from 350hp upwards.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/
I think Real Steel sell them if you want to buy one here.
There's a big block Chevy 454 HO crate engine for £5k on ebay....
The other option is an aftermarket crate engine which is likely to be more cost effective. These are generally rated at anything from 350hp upwards.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/
I think Real Steel sell them if you want to buy one here.
There's a big block Chevy 454 HO crate engine for £5k on ebay....
Maybe a couple of other things to consider...
Not all early 70's Electras were big-blocks. There were a few that came with the 350 motor shared by Olds at that time.
These old 455s were not intended to be rip-snorters and are significantly different to those offered in Pontiac product (HO 455).
The Buicks have a 2 bbl carb, low compression, soft cam and iron manifolds. Highest rated hp was something like 300 and change and a lot of the post fuel crisis cars had 100 less than that.
What they did come with is a lot of stump-pulling power. Their torque figures were reassuringly strong.
I'm not sure that heating-up the stock motor (double-pumper/manifold, aftermarket headers and a more aggressive camshaft) will make a massive difference on a low compression slugger like an Electra.
Crate motor makes more sense, but in an early 70's, 2 ton ghetto-sled? I'm not sure it would be worth the agg - and you'd still need to buy the carb, intake, headers, harness, alternator etc. Hooking-up a fresh engine to that old three-speed has got 'trouble' written all over it too.
They are imposing vehicles, but they're a long way from home in the UK. I too, would look for something more practical (from a maintenance perspective) i.e. a similar aged pony-car
Not all early 70's Electras were big-blocks. There were a few that came with the 350 motor shared by Olds at that time.
These old 455s were not intended to be rip-snorters and are significantly different to those offered in Pontiac product (HO 455).
The Buicks have a 2 bbl carb, low compression, soft cam and iron manifolds. Highest rated hp was something like 300 and change and a lot of the post fuel crisis cars had 100 less than that.
What they did come with is a lot of stump-pulling power. Their torque figures were reassuringly strong.
I'm not sure that heating-up the stock motor (double-pumper/manifold, aftermarket headers and a more aggressive camshaft) will make a massive difference on a low compression slugger like an Electra.
Crate motor makes more sense, but in an early 70's, 2 ton ghetto-sled? I'm not sure it would be worth the agg - and you'd still need to buy the carb, intake, headers, harness, alternator etc. Hooking-up a fresh engine to that old three-speed has got 'trouble' written all over it too.
They are imposing vehicles, but they're a long way from home in the UK. I too, would look for something more practical (from a maintenance perspective) i.e. a similar aged pony-car
Yeah its not really worth putting £5k of motor in (not that i could afford to) in £2.5k of car.
Do you think i should get something more like this then?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/pontiac-trans-am-white-good-...
Do you think i should get something more like this then?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/pontiac-trans-am-white-good-...
Possibly. But maybe not that one.
3rd gen Firebird/Camaros are common, so you have some choice. That car looks to have been dicked-around with a little. The 'tumble-drier vent hose' lashed to the throttle body is a worry, because there should be a MAF sensor in that tract. I guarantee the check engine light will be on, or the bulb poked-out.
High mileage, uncared-for cars can also have other expensive wear related issues. Air leaks in the throttle body itself (caused by the brass/nickel butterfly spindle) can cost a relative mountain of money to repair and the standard GM400R4 transmission gets quite cranky with age.
Good news is there are plenty about and routine service parts are cheap (usually). I say usually because GM were b
ds for introducing mid-year upgrades. Example, my 88 IROC Z had factory 4 piston Corvette front brakes, so instead of a set of pads being 40 quid, they were 200. You need to factor quirks like that.
At the end of the day, a two grand car is going to be just that. My 2c? A mid 80's 3rd gen Transmaro is a safer bet than an early 70's Electra - even though the Buick has more road presence.
3rd gen Firebird/Camaros are common, so you have some choice. That car looks to have been dicked-around with a little. The 'tumble-drier vent hose' lashed to the throttle body is a worry, because there should be a MAF sensor in that tract. I guarantee the check engine light will be on, or the bulb poked-out.
High mileage, uncared-for cars can also have other expensive wear related issues. Air leaks in the throttle body itself (caused by the brass/nickel butterfly spindle) can cost a relative mountain of money to repair and the standard GM400R4 transmission gets quite cranky with age.
Good news is there are plenty about and routine service parts are cheap (usually). I say usually because GM were b
ds for introducing mid-year upgrades. Example, my 88 IROC Z had factory 4 piston Corvette front brakes, so instead of a set of pads being 40 quid, they were 200. You need to factor quirks like that.At the end of the day, a two grand car is going to be just that. My 2c? A mid 80's 3rd gen Transmaro is a safer bet than an early 70's Electra - even though the Buick has more road presence.
BlueMR2 said:
Yeah its not really worth putting £5k of motor in (not that i could afford to) in £2.5k of car.
Do you think i should get something more like this then?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/pontiac-trans-am-white-good-...
Sort of. That would fall into the modified category so you might pay a bit extra on insurance (albeit American car insurance tends to be reasonably cheap anyway. If you're not mechanically minded, it's also difficult to know what's been done to the engine in order maintain it so stock engines are better for the mechanically inept IMHO. Most of those 3rd gens came with 5.0 engines with anything between 145 and 205hp. The 5.7 was 1986 on and had 235-245hp stock although I always thought they didn't come with T-tops.Do you think i should get something more like this then?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/pontiac-trans-am-white-good-...
Anyway, that is the last classic-looking shape and was made from 1982-1992.They are all steel.The interiors of the early ones might be a little crude for some tastes.
The other options are the 4th gen "Mk 1" which ran from 1993 to 1997 and produced between 275hp and 305hp from the iron block LT1, dependent on model or the 4th gen "Mk II" ("peanut-shaped headlamps")which got the Corvette C5's all-alloy LS1 engine with 305-325hp dependent on model. Again this model was available as Firebird or Camaro and all the outer panels bar the bonnet and rear wings are plastic (but it's no lighter than the 3rd gen).
For my money the LS1 engined cars are the pick.
Just make my buick comment im now 41 but at the age of seventeen i use to drive around eastbourne in a 1974 buick electra 225 with 455 power .Oh yes i had a trade policy insurance .
What good times as me mates where driving capris and escort and id blow them away.Did a lovely burn out outside what is none now as bn22 but was called diplocks at the time.I would also cruise over to hickstead in sussex in her to a nightclub called spencers and got lucky few times i got the front seat with a bird and me mate got the back seat ohh the good times.
Awesome car only problem i remember was rust each side at the back of the bonnet around the badge area.Shame i sold it a few years later and i heard it was banger raced somewhere.
Good choice of yanktank especially being pillarless great in the summer go for it mate!!!!!!!.
What good times as me mates where driving capris and escort and id blow them away.Did a lovely burn out outside what is none now as bn22 but was called diplocks at the time.I would also cruise over to hickstead in sussex in her to a nightclub called spencers and got lucky few times i got the front seat with a bird and me mate got the back seat ohh the good times.
Awesome car only problem i remember was rust each side at the back of the bonnet around the badge area.Shame i sold it a few years later and i heard it was banger raced somewhere.
Good choice of yanktank especially being pillarless great in the summer go for it mate!!!!!!!.
Edited by popinoz on Thursday 19th March 20:02
popinoz said:
Just make my buick comment im now 41 but at the age of seventeen i use to drive around eastbourne in a 1974 buick electra 225 with 455 power .Oh yes i had a trade policy insurance .
What good times as me mates where driving capris and escort and id blow them away.Did a lovely burn out outside what is none now as bn22 but was called diplocks at the time.I would also cruise over to hickstead in sussex in her to a nightclub called spencers and got lucky few times i got the front seat with a bird and me mate got the back seat ohh the good times.
Awesome car only problem i remember was rust each side at the back of the bonnet around the badge area.Shame i sold it a few years later and i heard it was banger raced somewhere.
Good choice of yanktank especially being pillarless great in the summer go for it mate!!!!!!!.
I do kind of still fancy one, but i think the combination of 10-15 mpg and 6 meters long is going to end up kind of impractical. I think i could just have room to park it, but when i say just i mean a few cm spare, and it would be too big at the top of the drive as the neighbours wouldn't be able to get there car down with it there. So it would live in the garden on paving stones and it would be a very tight fit getting it in and out of there. Its pretty tight with my Fathers W140 S class which is about 1 meter shorter than the Buick so not sure if the back end would get round. What good times as me mates where driving capris and escort and id blow them away.Did a lovely burn out outside what is none now as bn22 but was called diplocks at the time.I would also cruise over to hickstead in sussex in her to a nightclub called spencers and got lucky few times i got the front seat with a bird and me mate got the back seat ohh the good times.
Awesome car only problem i remember was rust each side at the back of the bonnet around the badge area.Shame i sold it a few years later and i heard it was banger raced somewhere.
Good choice of yanktank especially being pillarless great in the summer go for it mate!!!!!!!.
Edited by popinoz on Thursday 19th March 20:02
I think maybe it would be a good 2nd car in the future when it can be kept under cover and i could spend time finding a good one once i know more about american cars and V8s etc.
As for looking after the car i'm learning simple things but it will go to the mechanic who currently looks after my MR2 to make sure its ok. He used to build V8's for his stock car when he used to race them so that shouldn't be a problem. He is good at setting them up iirc as well so that should be ok and saves having to find a specialist engine place. I'd be happy for him to undertake a rebuild in the future if i fancy extra power in the future etc.
BlueMR2 said:
I've searched for 4th gen models but they are all way too expensive, even v6 ones are circa twice what i'll have to spend 
.
Might have to get something more normal.
Which is? there is a 3.8 V6 camaro on Auto Trader for under £3000 which is good for 200hp (the 3.4 on there is 165hp)..Might have to get something more normal.
There is a 1995 Mustang V6 on ebay but for my money, this Camaro 5.0 V8 looks very tidy and is the last of the 3rd gens although this is an RS not a Z28 so has multi-pint injectyion and I think 175hp and they are starting to assume classic status so kept well will keep it's value, possibly even appreciate:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1992-CHEVROLET-GMC-CAMARO-BL...
I wouldn't recommend anything that will take a lot of work to put right as you'll end up p*ssed off and broke. I've had a 1987 Camaro Z28 and it was a nice car that handled well and was simple to look after.
This is a nice 4th gen V6 Firebird but i doubt that will stay low:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stunning-1998-Pontiac-Firebi...
This is a cheap 4th gen at under £4k too with nothing to do and ready to cruise with 200hp under the bonnet:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2000-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-3-8-V6...
Food for thought. All these cars should do about 20-24mpg round town and up to 30 on a run.They cost £185 a year to tax and insurance tends to be reasonably cheap.
LuS1fer said:
There is a 1995 Mustang V6 on ebay but for my money, this Camaro 5.0 V8 looks very tidy and is the last of the 3rd gens although this is an RS not a Z28 so has multi-pint injectyion and I think 175hp and they are starting to assume classic status so kept well will keep it's value, possibly even appreciate:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1992-CHEVROLET-GMC-CAMARO-BL...
This seems pretty nice. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1992-CHEVROLET-GMC-CAMARO-BL...
For me personally i prefer the style of older cars, i like some 90's cars but not much after that really.
I like boxy mans cars in general, i'd rather have a w140 s class than a modern 4 dr hatchback but normal older american cars hold interst for me, when V8's involved.
Americans know how to make good sounding strong v8's and comfy seats for the not so slim gentleman. I kind of feel, for me there isn't much point getting a V6 american car. I may as well get an early 90's w140 S class with a 5L V8 like i found for my Dad from £1.5k-£2k ish rather than a not so powerful V6 american car.
I'd like something with a bit of presence from its looks and engine sound otherwise i'd leave getting something american till the future and get an S class or 7 series or possibly a 540. They just dont have the kind of V8 noise that the americans can get out of them, they are designed to be very refined and i dont really want that part of the lexus again in my next car.
Ultimate handling isn't top of my list, its more the total experience of ownership that i'm concerned with here.
Something with a good reliable mechanical base, good brakes and cheap parts to look after it.
Air conditioning would be high up as well if possible.
Not a rust bucket, my MR2 is in excellent condition underneath for eg.
Something more comfortable on uk roads.
Nice noise
Something a bit different/bit of presence eg not another dull hot hatch.
Somthing more relaxing to drive
Thats why i think it would be nice to try something american.
LuS1fer said:
I wouldn't recommend anything that will take a lot of work to put right as you'll end up p*ssed off and broke. I've had a 1987 Camaro Z28 and it was a nice car that handled well and was simple to look after.
I hear that, can't afford to do that again.LuS1fer said:
This is a nice 4th gen V6 Firebird but i doubt that will stay low:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stunning-1998-Pontiac-Firebi...
This is a cheap 4th gen at under £4k too with nothing to do and ready to cruise with 200hp under the bonnet:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2000-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-3-8-V6...
I'm a bit on and off about the 4th gen, some angles i like it then from another it looks girly again. I think at £3-£4k i could get a nicer originally uk sold equivalent car. E.g £4k could get a 3L V6 in the MR2 and an e36 325-328 as an everyday more comfy car.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stunning-1998-Pontiac-Firebi...
This is a cheap 4th gen at under £4k too with nothing to do and ready to cruise with 200hp under the bonnet:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2000-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-3-8-V6...
LuS1fer said:
Food for thought. All these cars should do about 20-24mpg round town and up to 30 on a run.They cost £185 a year to tax and insurance tends to be reasonably cheap.
The cheaper insurance and the reasonable mpg on a run over a more highly strung small engine in Japanese cars like the MR2 for motorways is another reason i'm thinking of changing.Edited by BlueMR2 on Friday 20th March 13:37
I had a Buick Electra limited with a 7 litre many moons ago. 1975 I think.
The wheels would spin if the blacktop was hot, it made lots of whooshing noises but was not fast. Adequete is the best description.
How the hell are you going to able to park it in UK? and if you park in a parking lot space there is a good chance you will not be able to open the doors
Those doors are big.
But go for it, lot of car for the money
The wheels would spin if the blacktop was hot, it made lots of whooshing noises but was not fast. Adequete is the best description.
How the hell are you going to able to park it in UK? and if you park in a parking lot space there is a good chance you will not be able to open the doors
Those doors are big.But go for it, lot of car for the money
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