Fakes, what's the feeling?
Discussion
Marc p said:
When it comes to fakes, I can be onboard as long as the quality is 2nd to none, I'm not ashamed to admit that I have both gens and fakes.
I have a genuine Rolex, Oris and Omega, I also have a replica Rolex, Breitling, Tag, Cartier and Patek.
But they aren't cheap fakes, all run quality Swiss ETA movements and are very 1:1 in the looks department, not one has ever been spotted as a fake, the best one was the Tag I have, I had a problem with the crown and gave it to a watchsmith I use for my others to repair, the next day I get a very sheepish and worried voice on the phone to tell me that he has bad news, the watch isn't genuine. I laughed and apologised for not telling him when I dropped it off(I didn't even think about it), but he remarked at how good it was, even at the point he had opened that back up he didn't know it was a fake, the only point he realised it was, was when a certain Tag part didn't fit.
I like the fakes as the daily watch, I'm not too fussed about scuffing them, yet I am almost proud to admit to people it's a fake if they ask, it's like the replica GT40's, Cobra's, 550's, etc, when even the more astute can't tell, it's quite an achievment.
fakes are for losers in so many ways ....and I don't care if you do have the real thing ......many fakes are made and controlled by criminal gangs and by buying them you help to perpetuate the criminality . However it did make me laugh that you have a replica TAG .....probably better and more reliable than the "real thing "I have a genuine Rolex, Oris and Omega, I also have a replica Rolex, Breitling, Tag, Cartier and Patek.
But they aren't cheap fakes, all run quality Swiss ETA movements and are very 1:1 in the looks department, not one has ever been spotted as a fake, the best one was the Tag I have, I had a problem with the crown and gave it to a watchsmith I use for my others to repair, the next day I get a very sheepish and worried voice on the phone to tell me that he has bad news, the watch isn't genuine. I laughed and apologised for not telling him when I dropped it off(I didn't even think about it), but he remarked at how good it was, even at the point he had opened that back up he didn't know it was a fake, the only point he realised it was, was when a certain Tag part didn't fit.
I like the fakes as the daily watch, I'm not too fussed about scuffing them, yet I am almost proud to admit to people it's a fake if they ask, it's like the replica GT40's, Cobra's, 550's, etc, when even the more astute can't tell, it's quite an achievment.
nick s said:
Why on earth would anyone want a fake anything? All that screams is that you want to project an image of false wealth to others. Having an ice watch is all about knowing you have something well made, nice, and expensive on your wrist. How horrible must it be to make people think you have a Rolex, but in reality it's a £80 bit of s
t? How must that make you feel?
I didn't realise those Ice watches were that expensive...t? How must that make you feel? I guess if someone really worries what people think about them based on which watch they wear (real or fake), they've got a slightly maladjusted sense of self worth...
M.
nick s said:
Why on earth would anyone want a fake anything? All that screams is that you want to project an image of false wealth to others. Having an ice watch is all about knowing you have something well made, nice, and expensive on your wrist. How horrible must it be to make people think you have a Rolex, but in reality it's a £80 bit of st? How must that make you feel?
I thought Ice watches were about as bad as it gets, t? How must that make you feel? If you meant nice watches surely they aren't necessarily a display of wealth, its just that the wearer choses to spend his money on them,
InductionRoar said:
That speaks volumes about Tags and your watch smith in my opinion. Try taking your fake Patek in for a service to Patek and see how long it takes them to discover it's a fake.
Why anyone would wish to own a fake that is based on something that can be copied so convincingly and presumably at a much lower price point baffles me.
I agree on the Tag front, they are not the front runner in quality and having had a genuine Tag, I would go as far to say that the quality of the rep is as good as, if not better, than the gen.Why anyone would wish to own a fake that is based on something that can be copied so convincingly and presumably at a much lower price point baffles me.
The Patek would never be confused once opened, a few of the inner workings have been copied convincingly, but not accurately.
Your 2nd point may need re-phrasing for me, as by swapping the word fake for genuine makes more sense.
nick s said:
Why on earth would anyone want a fake anything? All that screams is that you want to project an image of false wealth to others. Having an ice watch is all about knowing you have something well made, nice, and expensive on your wrist. How horrible must it be to make people think you have a Rolex, but in reality it's a £80 bit of st? How must that make you feel?
You are a very angry little man that has assumed a lot incorrectly.t? How must that make you feel? Firstly, no decent rep is going to cost £80, that's your dodgy guy at the market stuff, your high end reps are generally around £600-1000 and occasionally utilise gen parts(especially on the 2nd hand market, a lot are frankensteins).
Secondly, you have taken it as fact that I buy expensive watches because they are expensive and it allows me to lord over people, no, I buy watches for many reasons but not that. I generally fall in love with a particular design and if I could afford them all as genuine, I'd buy them all, but the watches that are hard to replicate, I will buy as genuine, for instance, my YachtMaster Plantinum was never going to be perfect as a fake, so I got that as genuine, however, my Explorer is perfect as a fake, it's beautifully made, fantastic to look at at and runs exactly how the genuine should, which makes it perfect for my work/daily watch.
michael gould said:
fakes are for losers in so many ways ....and I don't care if you do have the real thing ......many fakes are made and controlled by criminal gangs and by buying them you help to perpetuate the criminality . However it did make me laugh that you have a replica TAG .....probably better and more reliable than the "real thing "
The criminal gang thing circulates all the time, this is your low end watches that are nigh on mass produced, visible reps and sold on the market stalls accross the world, the high end stuff is very much specialised watch makers that spend many hours making the watches, we are just utilising Chinas cheap labour rate.And yes, I do agree that the rep Tag is both better made and much more reliable than the original
Marc p said:
InductionRoar said:
That speaks volumes about Tags and your watch smith in my opinion. Try taking your fake Patek in for a service to Patek and see how long it takes them to discover it's a fake.
Why anyone would wish to own a fake that is based on something that can be copied so convincingly and presumably at a much lower price point baffles me.
I agree on the Tag front, they are not the front runner in quality and having had a genuine Tag, I would go as far to say that the quality of the rep is as good as, if not better, than the gen.Why anyone would wish to own a fake that is based on something that can be copied so convincingly and presumably at a much lower price point baffles me.
The Patek would never be confused once opened, a few of the inner workings have been copied convincingly, but not accurately.
Your 2nd point may need re-phrasing for me, as by swapping the word fake for genuine makes more sense.
nick s said:
Why on earth would anyone want a fake anything? All that screams is that you want to project an image of false wealth to others. Having an ice watch is all about knowing you have something well made, nice, and expensive on your wrist. How horrible must it be to make people think you have a Rolex, but in reality it's a £80 bit of st? How must that make you feel?
You are a very angry little man that has assumed a lot incorrectly.t? How must that make you feel? Firstly, no decent rep is going to cost £80, that's your dodgy guy at the market stuff, your high end reps are generally around £600-1000 and occasionally utilise gen parts(especially on the 2nd hand market, a lot are frankensteins).
Secondly, you have taken it as fact that I buy expensive watches because they are expensive and it allows me to lord over people, no, I buy watches for many reasons but not that. I generally fall in love with a particular design and if I could afford them all as genuine, I'd buy them all, but the watches that are hard to replicate, I will buy as genuine, for instance, my YachtMaster Plantinum was never going to be perfect as a fake, so I got that as genuine, however, my Explorer is perfect as a fake, it's beautifully made, fantastic to look at at and runs exactly how the genuine should, which makes it perfect for my work/daily watch.
michael gould said:
fakes are for losers in so many ways ....and I don't care if you do have the real thing ......many fakes are made and controlled by criminal gangs and by buying them you help to perpetuate the criminality . However it did make me laugh that you have a replica TAG .....probably better and more reliable than the "real thing "
The criminal gang thing circulates all the time, this is your low end watches that are nigh on mass produced, visible reps and sold on the market stalls accross the world, the high end stuff is very much specialised watch makers that spend many hours making the watches, we are just utilising Chinas cheap labour rate.And yes, I do agree that the rep Tag is both better made and much more reliable than the original
I personally don't buy fakes, but I do buy homage watches. For instance, I have an Alpha which looks a lot like an Omega PO. I fancied the PO with the orange bezel but wasn't sure if I could live with it, the Homage allowed me to try the look. It was planned as a daily wear. I am glad I bought the homage because I few weeks on I decided I couldn't live with that look. Its now the watch I wear when working in the garage and gardening.
The homage alpha is accurate, but the case detailing is poor. I settled on a PO with black bezel, mind you I hardly wear that either.
The homage alpha is accurate, but the case detailing is poor. I settled on a PO with black bezel, mind you I hardly wear that either.
Marc p said:
The criminal gang thing circulates all the time, this is your low end watches that are nigh on mass produced, visible reps and sold on the market stalls across the world, the high end stuff is very much specialised watch makers that spend many hours making the watches, we are just utilising Chinas cheap labour rate.
This is at best a spurious defence.The problem with a fake watch is you are stealing the design and intellectual property from the manufacturer. Then passing it off as the real thing.
There is nothing clever in this from my perspective.
I had a fake Breitling Crosswind chronograph. Unfortunately, I didn't know it was a fake when I bought it! When I found out (about a year later when it stopped - the repairer took great delight in telling me) I was properly gutted - not just about the money, but also about the fact it was a fake, it just felt 'wrong' to wear it. Whereas before I was really proud of that watch (even though it was a bugger to actually tell the time... surely a serious consideration with a watch?) now I knew it was a fake, a phoney, a cheap 'knock off'.
I gave it to a friend who didn't care. He still wears it on special occasions and it still looks really good I sometimes think I should have kept it!
I gave it to a friend who didn't care. He still wears it on special occasions and it still looks really good I sometimes think I should have kept it!
I'm a little torn on this subject.
For me a FAKE is something that pretends to be something it's not. A Steinhart or a CW or numerous other watches look a lot like others from more prestige brands, but differ in some significant ways and, most importantly for me, don't bear fake logos.
A Steinhart Ocean One LOOKS very like a Rolex Sub, but it says Steinhart front and centre - I have no problems with this.
On the other hand, a 'high-end' or otherwise watch that says "Rolex" on the dial if it didn't come from Rolex is a bad thing, imo. If it says "bks" instead, and you like it, good on you, enjoy.
I'm wearing a Chinese 'Panerai-alike' today funnily enough - It DOES say "Marina Militarie" on the dial, but it DOESN'T say "Panerai", so I don't have a problem with it (I know MM is a TM, but honestly, they are two words - I have a few watches that say "Chrono" on them, if someone TM'd that I wouldn't throw them out...).
I know some will get bent out of shape over the MM wording, I don't, but equally I don't fool myself that my £50 Chinese watch is good enough to fool anyone it's a Panerai, any more than I think that my Sekonda chrono is the same as my Breitling, but again, it says "Sekonda", it's not trying to fool anyone, just offering some of the styling of the iconic Navitimer at an affordable price.
I don't think this is a bad thing, people don't buy a Sekonda INSTEAD of a Breitling, they buy a cheap watch they like the look of. Maybe, one day, they'll realise it's a Breitling they really like the styling of and buy the real thing, but equally, maybe they'll be happy with a cheap quartz watch that keeps good time and they like the look of.
If you're buying a £1000 fake with Rolex logos on, instead of a £3000 Rolex, then I'm thinking you're probably wasting your money, but that's my view.
More worrying of course (as someone who likes watches), is that you (or a subsequent owner) might pass that fake off as the real thing and I'll spend Rolex money on a £300 knock-off. This is easily avoided if the watch says "bks" instead of "Rolex", but of course the point of an outright fake is to make it look as though you have the real thing when you don't and the main reason they exist is to make money out of the unwary.
M
For me a FAKE is something that pretends to be something it's not. A Steinhart or a CW or numerous other watches look a lot like others from more prestige brands, but differ in some significant ways and, most importantly for me, don't bear fake logos.
A Steinhart Ocean One LOOKS very like a Rolex Sub, but it says Steinhart front and centre - I have no problems with this.
On the other hand, a 'high-end' or otherwise watch that says "Rolex" on the dial if it didn't come from Rolex is a bad thing, imo. If it says "b
ks" instead, and you like it, good on you, enjoy.I'm wearing a Chinese 'Panerai-alike' today funnily enough - It DOES say "Marina Militarie" on the dial, but it DOESN'T say "Panerai", so I don't have a problem with it (I know MM is a TM, but honestly, they are two words - I have a few watches that say "Chrono" on them, if someone TM'd that I wouldn't throw them out...).
I know some will get bent out of shape over the MM wording, I don't, but equally I don't fool myself that my £50 Chinese watch is good enough to fool anyone it's a Panerai, any more than I think that my Sekonda chrono is the same as my Breitling, but again, it says "Sekonda", it's not trying to fool anyone, just offering some of the styling of the iconic Navitimer at an affordable price.
I don't think this is a bad thing, people don't buy a Sekonda INSTEAD of a Breitling, they buy a cheap watch they like the look of. Maybe, one day, they'll realise it's a Breitling they really like the styling of and buy the real thing, but equally, maybe they'll be happy with a cheap quartz watch that keeps good time and they like the look of.
If you're buying a £1000 fake with Rolex logos on, instead of a £3000 Rolex, then I'm thinking you're probably wasting your money, but that's my view.
More worrying of course (as someone who likes watches), is that you (or a subsequent owner) might pass that fake off as the real thing and I'll spend Rolex money on a £300 knock-off. This is easily avoided if the watch says "b
ks" instead of "Rolex", but of course the point of an outright fake is to make it look as though you have the real thing when you don't and the main reason they exist is to make money out of the unwary.michael gould said:
you can't come on a watch forum and defend the purchase of fake watches ........ buying fake watches is the same as stuffing a pair of socks down your pants and pretending you have a big knob...........you get found out in the end to be a disappointment !!!
Err, this is the internet, everyone stuffs socks down their pants as you only get found out if you stray from your keyboard into the real world M
Edited by marcosgt on Tuesday 9th February 16:49
Marc p said:
I generally fall in love with a particular design and if I could afford them all as genuine, I'd buy them all, but the watches that are hard to replicate, I will buy as genuine, for instance, my YachtMaster Plantinum was never going to be perfect as a fake, so I got that as genuine, however, my Explorer is perfect as a fake, it's beautifully made, fantastic to look at at and runs exactly how the genuine should, which makes it perfect for my work/daily watch.
I don't really buy this as if you like the design it would be straight forward to buy something with the same, or extremely similar, design without it being counterfeit. You obviously have convinced your self that it is ok to buy counterfeit items if they are well made and/or expensive, but really those qualities have no bearing on the central issue which is deceit. Marc p said:
InductionRoar said:
That speaks volumes about Tags and your watch smith in my opinion. Try taking your fake Patek in for a service to Patek and see how long it takes them to discover it's a fake.
Why anyone would wish to own a fake that is based on something that can be copied so convincingly and presumably at a much lower price point baffles me.
I agree on the Tag front, they are not the front runner in quality and having had a genuine Tag, I would go as far to say that the quality of the rep is as good as, if not better, than the gen.Why anyone would wish to own a fake that is based on something that can be copied so convincingly and presumably at a much lower price point baffles me.
The Patek would never be confused once opened, a few of the inner workings have been copied convincingly, but not accurately.
Your 2nd point may need re-phrasing for me, as by swapping the word fake for genuine makes more sense.
I agree - the word fake and original (in this instance) are interchangeable and therefore my original statement stands.
If you have no ambition to own the original why would you purchase a fake of the same model?
or
InductionRoar said:
Why anyone would wish to own a fake that is based on something that can be copied so convincingly and presumably at a much lower price point baffles me.
Adrian W said:
I had this made and prefer it to anything Panerai make!
Like that strap, where did you get it from?http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PANERAI-buckle-Polished-...
This is the buckle I had my eye on as I like the logo. Is it a fake or a homage not sure, but I like it so have bought one, anyone who knows me knows I would NEVER wear a fake watch.
If anything most people think the amount of money I spend on watches rather odd...
Also this was never about fake watches, it's specifically about the iffy bands etc on eBay, fake watches are for fake people.
Edited by nikaiyo2 on Tuesday 9th February 20:07
gregs656 said:
I don't really buy this as if you like the design it would be straight forward to buy something with the same, or extremely similar, design without it being counterfeit. You obviously have convinced your self that it is ok to buy counterfeit items if they are well made and/or expensive, but really those qualities have no bearing on the central issue which is deceit.
+1Stinkotanko said:
I don't want to be drawn into the homage/fake debate, but do you not make a distinction between a buckle in the style of an original and a buckle pretending to be an original?
For me, it's a sad symptom of the credit culture we live in, poor people buying watches they can't afford and cheapening the brand with fake accessories.
Lol got me bang to rights dude, my IWC, PAM 55, 5513, UN, Seamaster, Bell & Ross in fact all my other watches are all bought outright, was going to mention my old Royal Oak but that was gift so does not really count lol Yep the PAM 0 was on 0%.For me, it's a sad symptom of the credit culture we live in, poor people buying watches they can't afford and cheapening the brand with fake accessories.
What I don't get is how is that a problem? Why would you NOT buy something on 0% when its offered? I know to some of the powerfully built types on here it's a dirty word, but hey I love being given free things especially money. I presume it's a generational thing? Maybe being brought up in an environment where money was not something to be worried about I know credit is not something to be feared so long as it is well managed...
I think I might be troll feeding, never mind lol
Wow, that escalated quickly!
Everyone buys a watch for different reasons. personally for me it's not about having something expensive on my wrist it's more about appreciating the craftsmanship and history that goes into the watch.
Going back to the OP's original point, I understand wanting to get a sparer strap/buckle combo to save time however, the buckle on a Panerai is so easy to change unless it's to save the original from getting scratched.
Rather than buying a like for like buckle have you considered getting a deployment clasp instead? There are loads of aftermarket straps for these too
Everyone buys a watch for different reasons. personally for me it's not about having something expensive on my wrist it's more about appreciating the craftsmanship and history that goes into the watch.
Going back to the OP's original point, I understand wanting to get a sparer strap/buckle combo to save time however, the buckle on a Panerai is so easy to change unless it's to save the original from getting scratched.
Rather than buying a like for like buckle have you considered getting a deployment clasp instead? There are loads of aftermarket straps for these too
I do not understand why anyone would want to own a fake, and subsequently be proud of it.
Horses for courses I guess.
I imagine pretty much all of us would be furious if someone stole your idea, claimed your work as their own etc etc.
But as long as it is a corporate that is being knocked off.... that is all right fine and dandy.
Horses for courses I guess.
I imagine pretty much all of us would be furious if someone stole your idea, claimed your work as their own etc etc.
But as long as it is a corporate that is being knocked off.... that is all right fine and dandy.
Aside from trying to kid people into thinking you have paid for something that you haven't, I don't like the idea of the industry.
Who knows what conditions they're made under but I would hazard a guess that the poor saps making them aren't exactly well looked after. I'd also worry where the money actually goes.
Who knows what conditions they're made under but I would hazard a guess that the poor saps making them aren't exactly well looked after. I'd also worry where the money actually goes.
CRB14 said:
Aside from trying to kid people into thinking you have paid for something that you haven't, I don't like the idea of the industry.
Who knows what conditions they're made under but I would hazard a guess that the poor saps making them aren't exactly well looked after. I'd also worry where the money actually goes.
Really? So you think about the conditions the people who make your phone, TV, jeans, shirts, kitchen appliances etc work under?Who knows what conditions they're made under but I would hazard a guess that the poor saps making them aren't exactly well looked after. I'd also worry where the money actually goes.
Probably not a lot different. There are plenty of corporates who don't care about these things but because they are 'trusted' brands we never really question it.
As for the whole replicas/real thing, who cares? If someone likes what they're wearing and are prepared to wear a replica so what? As long as they don't try and sell it as real its doing noone any harm. The people with replicas are unlikely to ever buy a real one.
Fakes no no, homages i'm good with.
I have a real 16600 Sea Dweller and also a Parnis Panerai homage to add some balance.
I like watches for what they are, how they look and how they feel on the wrist. The SD is my No.1 watch, wears fantastically on the wrist and just looks great. The Parnis is £70 worth or reasonably well made parts, it says Parnis on the dial and is great VFM, its a decent beater and i'll probably buy another. Fakes however i cannot stand, it devalues the brand and supports and illegal trade.
Just my 2p.
I have a real 16600 Sea Dweller and also a Parnis Panerai homage to add some balance.
I like watches for what they are, how they look and how they feel on the wrist. The SD is my No.1 watch, wears fantastically on the wrist and just looks great. The Parnis is £70 worth or reasonably well made parts, it says Parnis on the dial and is great VFM, its a decent beater and i'll probably buy another. Fakes however i cannot stand, it devalues the brand and supports and illegal trade.
Just my 2p.
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