Astonishing discussion with my local Rolex dealer.

[tgclowes]

Where has this stigma come from that everyone with a Rolex has bought it on finance? Do cash buyers feel bitter that they should be able to have these 'special' SS models because they have a spare £6,500 or so?

Sounds ludicrous I know but it's the vibe I'm getting from this thread.

[So]

Guycord said:

So said:

When do you think interest rates are going to bit [sic] then?

no idea but the whole world can’t keep deficit spending and printing currency. Sooner or later inflation/hyperinflation has to hit and when it does......there will only be 4 commodities that matter. SS Rolex’s won’t be one of them.

Shotgun shells, tinned food, bottled water. What’s the fourth?

[Manners2001]

So said:

Shotgun shells, tinned food, bottled water. What’s the fourth?

A case or 10 of bloody good Single Malt of course!

[bonerp]

So said:

Guycord said:

So said:

When do you think interest rates are going to bit [sic] then?

no idea but the whole world can’t keep deficit spending and printing currency. Sooner or later inflation/hyperinflation has to hit and when it does......there will only be 4 commodities that matter. SS Rolex’s won’t be one of them.

Shotgun shells, tinned food, bottled water. What’s the fourth?

tin hats of course

[So]

bonerp said:

So said:

Guycord said:

So said:

When do you think interest rates are going to bit [sic] then?

no idea but the whole world can’t keep deficit spending and printing currency. Sooner or later inflation/hyperinflation has to hit and when it does......there will only be 4 commodities that matter. SS Rolex’s won’t be one of them.

Shotgun shells, tinned food, bottled water. What’s the fourth?

tin hats of course

Of the foil variety?

[Francois de La Rochefoucauld]

My view is that in periods of economic uncertainty or recession peoples priorities change, either through choice or necessity. I believe this will have a knock on effect on a range of discretionary, luxury goods. It may even be that people can still afford these products but don't feel it appropriate to buy them, or if the overs market dries up they become less appealing purchases.

[bonerp]

So said:

Of the foil variety?

indeed missed the key word here!

[James_B]

Guycord said:

But my point below (SO)....once interest rates start to bit...and they will, cheap money goes away, people WILL get hit with the higher cost of borrowing on anything and the BOOM!

If rates go up by 2% which really is not predicted to happen any time soon then that £6,500 finance deal would cost someone an extra £2.50 a week to own. I don’t know that that would put many people off or make many owners sell.

[Camelot1971]

tgclowes said:

Where has this stigma come from that everyone with a Rolex has bought it on finance? Do cash buyers feel bitter that they should be able to have these 'special' SS models because they have a spare £6,500 or so?

Sounds ludicrous I know but it's the vibe I'm getting from this thread.

I think some people on this forum think we should go back to the 1800's when people knew their place and didn't rise above their station. The same people who buy a Rolex to show the world how important and successful they are.

[rog007]

Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:

...a range of discretionary, luxury goods.

Discretionary! Not sure my wife would agree that my acquisition of luxury watches is discretionary; she once called it a disease!

[So]

Camelot1971 said:

tgclowes said:

Where has this stigma come from that everyone with a Rolex has bought it on finance? Do cash buyers feel bitter that they should be able to have these 'special' SS models because they have a spare £6,500 or so?

Sounds ludicrous I know but it's the vibe I'm getting from this thread.

I think some people on this forum think we should go back to the 1800's when people knew their place and didn't rise above their station. The same people who buy a Rolex to show the world how important and successful they are.

I was in a chippy last night and a more motley crowd of customers you'd not encounter. The chap in front of me was wearing scruffy black boots, grubby cargo pants, shaven head, neck tattoo and those stupid earrings you can drive a bus through. He was also wearing a Rolex Datejust on jubilee bracelet, with blue dial and baton markers. It was almost certainly genuine.

Now, I would never judge a book by its cover. It could be that the chap in the chippy had just come back from the Bentley showroom, where he had bought five new cars in cash. He could have been of a degree of social standing to which I could only ever aspire. He may have discovered the cure for cancer in his lunchtime. More than likely, he'd just come off a building site where he was labouring.

Everyone wants to wear the brands that they think mark them out as a quality person. Rolex has forever been "a bit of posh" and nowadays anyone can have one. Ergo, there is nothing whatsoever exclusive or unattainable about a Rolex. Are they perhaps the Burberry of the watch world and is Rolex attempting to address what they perceive is a problem? Is it too late?

[Guycord]

James_B said:

Guycord said:

But my point below (SO)....once interest rates start to bit...and they will, cheap money goes away, people WILL get hit with the higher cost of borrowing on anything and the BOOM!

If rates go up by 2% which really is not predicted to happen any time soon then that £6,500 finance deal would cost someone an extra £2.50 a week to own. I don’t know that that would put many people off or make many owners sell.

OK lotta good Tin Foil laughs here.

The problem wont be because your only debt repayment goes up by £2.50/month. Problem will be when businesses go under because of debt and your employed by one of them or cash liquidity dries-up between businesses. Nothing new here. We went through it OK in 2008. We just borrowed more to keep it all the same right? What could go wrong?

[Brads67]

So said:

I was in a chippy last night and a more motley crowd of customers you'd not encounter. The chap in front of me was wearing scruffy black boots, grubby cargo pants, shaven head, neck tattoo and those stupid earrings you can drive a bus through. He was also wearing a Rolex Datejust on jubilee bracelet, with blue dial and baton markers. It was almost certainly genuine.

Now, I would never judge a book by its cover. It could be that the chap in the chippy had just come back from the Bentley showroom, where he had bought five new cars in cash. He could have been of a degree of social standing to which I could only ever aspire. He may have discovered the cure for cancer in his lunchtime. More than likely, he'd just come off a building site where he was labouring.

Everyone wants to wear the brands that they think mark them out as a quality person. Rolex has forever been "a bit of posh" and nowadays anyone can have one. Ergo, there is nothing whatsoever exclusive or unattainable about a Rolex. Are they perhaps the Burberry of the watch world and is Rolex attempting to address what they perceive is a problem? Is it too late?

What a sad outlook that would be if true.

[Guycord]

So said:

I was in a chippy last night and a more motley crowd of customers you'd not encounter. The chap in front of me was wearing scruffy black boots, grubby cargo pants, shaven head, neck tattoo and those stupid earrings you can drive a bus through. He was also wearing a Rolex Datejust on jubilee bracelet, with blue dial and baton markers. It was almost certainly genuine.

Now, I would never judge a book by its cover. It could be that the chap in the chippy had just come back from the Bentley showroom, where he had bought five new cars in cash. He could have been of a degree of social standing to which I could only ever aspire. He may have discovered the cure for cancer in his lunchtime. More than likely, he'd just come off a building site where he was labouring.

Everyone wants to wear the brands that they think mark them out as a quality person. Rolex has forever been "a bit of posh" and nowadays anyone can have one. Ergo, there is nothing whatsoever exclusive or unattainable about a Rolex. Are they perhaps the Burberry of the watch world and is Rolex attempting to address what they perceive is a problem? Is it too late?

Or to put it a different way: In my early twenties, the Breitling Chronomat GT was THE watch. Rolex were for old farts and used Car salesmen. Patek for Bank Managers etc... Earphones were cheap and nasty and no one would spend more than a few quid on them, prefering decent quality monkey coffins instead.

Move on 25 years and its all reversed. Spending £400 on earphones - no issue. Spend that on traditional Hi-if and you are mad.

Being working Class, why not have a Rolex if you can get the funds or a Patek if your better paid? Especially if that desirable item comes with cheap finance on something which is right now as good if not better than as cash in the bank?

Problem comes when everyone wants to sell at once.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Guycord said:

Problem comes when everyone wants to sell at once.

Then I’ll stop flipping watches and go back to old Porsches again. Win win

[So]

Guycord said:

Or to put it a different way: In my early twenties, the Breitling Chronomat GT was THE watch. Rolex were for old farts and used Car salesmen. Patek for Bank Managers etc... Earphones were cheap and nasty and no one would spend more than a few quid on them, prefering decent quality monkey coffins instead.

Move on 25 years and its all reversed. Spending £400 on earphones - no issue. Spend that on traditional Hi-if and you are mad.

Being working Class, why not have a Rolex if you can get the funds or a Patek if your better paid? Especially if that desirable item comes with cheap finance on something which is right now as good if not better than as cash in the bank?

Problem comes when everyone wants to sell at once.

When has that ever happened with Rolexes? Or any other watch brand for that matter.

During the GFC I didn't see people offloading watches en masse. We all thought we were about to go bust and kept our "old" cars rather than buying new ones, didn't we, but I didn't see a flood of Submariners hitting the market.

[Wills2]

Guycord said:

Sure, but you can still just about buy the from an AD. Further, New Sub dates on the grey are marching towards 7.5k. The previous Owner already taken the VAT hit.

So, a similar watch, personal opinion only, but a more vibrant and better finished watch, so far free from snotty ADs lecturing you on breaching contract (amending contract) and telling you how lucky you are you should be ashamed.

I agree they are a lovely watch but what do you mean by VAT hit?

Edited by Wills2 on Sunday 1st July 11:18

[Octoposse]

Some random observations: (and strangled metaphors) firstly, if it quacks like a bubble, and waddles like a bubble, then it probably is a bubble. Bubbles don't have soft landings, but then that's a tautology as if it had a soft landing then we wouldn't call it, in hindsight, a bubble.

So, soft landing? Probably. Rolex watches are rather obviously more durable than tulip bulbs or dodgy shares, so the perception of quality and inherent value will undoubtedly prevent prices free falling - there will always be buyers. Like me, if prices dropped - they are, apparently, good watches!

Second observation - I went to the 70th birthday do at my local Porsche dealer. Every - literally every - male with a £50k+ Porsche was wearing a stainless steel Rolex sports watch. Who can judge personal circumstances, but my prejudice would be that most of them would just leave their Rolexes in a draw forgotten and neglected, moving on to the next big thing, rather than needing to dump them for cash.

Presumably there is a strong incentive to corruption in the Rolex ADs at the moment? The temptation to direct a rare delivery to a buddy and split the premium is strong. Working in a Rolex AD must certainly be good for your social life!

Hardly scientific, but my experience makes me wonder if there's a huge negative impact on customer service. I've been into my local Rolex AD twice - once to get an insurance valuation for my wife's diamond ring, once for a service on my Breitling. Each time they were off the scale obnoxious and dismissive - refused to value the ring (for money!), and grudgingly filled in a form to send my Breitling off but couldn't be arsed to discuss replacement straps. There are absolutely no circumstances in which I'd go in there again as a customer.

[Guycord]

So said:

When has that ever happened with Rolexes? Or any other watch brand for that matter.

During the GFC I didn't see people offloading watches en masse. We all thought we were about to go bust and kept our "old" cars rather than buying new ones, didn't we, but I didn't see a flood of Submariners hitting the market.

Maybe not. Perhaps they were all in the ADs window displays, cos probably most people didn’t give a toss on Rolex back then and anyone could walk in off the street pick one up, perhaps a discount and a full set of papers?

[Guycord]

Wills2 said:

I agree they are a lovely watch but what do you mean by VAT hit?

Edited by Wills2 on Sunday 1st July 11:18

So what’s the market rate for getting that £6500 Sub after 12months wait from your AD and flipping directly over to Watchfinder?