How long will the Rolex Bubble Last
Discussion
Clearly the AD's are showing very poor judgement on there allocation strategy, just look through the listings on fleabay ,literally dozens of Subs of all descriptions being flipped, Real shame as there must be the same amount of people as flippers who would just love to buy and keep there watches and wear them . The AD'S should keep the paperwork for 2 years on all Rolex watches regardless. I would definitely be ok with this and I would wear It rather than just leaving It in a box with all its stickers and plastic on. ..
lostkiwi said:
Fairest way is no pre-orders, no telephone reserves, no stupid lists, no preferential customers. First through the door with the cash gets it.
It does not need to be fair though. There was another thread running in the context of Porsche GT cars where people were making similar comments regarding allocations. I made the following comment :GT03ROB said:
If I ran a dealership or any other business for that matter... I'm in it for my benefit not the benefit of my customers. If they happen to benefit along the way great, but ultimately I'll do what brings the most benefit to me. "Rewarding" loyalty to a brand happens in every business. Some restaurant chains have discount cards for regular customers, airlines run frequent flyer programmes.
Is it fair that if 2 of us fly with BA for example in economy, I can use a special check-in, by pass the security queues, get a full English breakfast with champagne, board first & have already reserved an exit row seat, whilst you can't & we've both paid the same for our ticket? This is BAs way of making more money.
You may not like the allocation process be that for Porsches, Rolexes or whatever, but actually your opinion is irrelevant & of no consequence.
There is no need for the process to be fair....it's about what makes an AD the most profit over the long term. As a customer you are only the means to the end.Is it fair that if 2 of us fly with BA for example in economy, I can use a special check-in, by pass the security queues, get a full English breakfast with champagne, board first & have already reserved an exit row seat, whilst you can't & we've both paid the same for our ticket? This is BAs way of making more money.
You may not like the allocation process be that for Porsches, Rolexes or whatever, but actually your opinion is irrelevant & of no consequence.
hixster said:
Lord.Vader said:
I got one after a 6 month wait, never bought a watch from them before, kept the card for 12 months.
Told her it was for my 30th, just so happened to drop them an email and remind them on the day a Ceramic Daytona (black) was delivered.
I have been offered £12k w/o the paperwork, so obviously there are a fair few people out there willing to pay overs, mine will be going in Aug / Sept as I fancy a classic car and I never wear it, I find them to shiny and in your face. I might get a Milgauss, probably the nicest watch they do!
Why don't you have the paperwork, are you still waiting for the card still? You could get £16k+ with it.Told her it was for my 30th, just so happened to drop them an email and remind them on the day a Ceramic Daytona (black) was delivered.
I have been offered £12k w/o the paperwork, so obviously there are a fair few people out there willing to pay overs, mine will be going in Aug / Sept as I fancy a classic car and I never wear it, I find them to shiny and in your face. I might get a Milgauss, probably the nicest watch they do!
Edited by hixster on Tuesday 29th January 17:09
I will tell you what I think about the Rolex and Porsche Bubble.....
I bought a McLaren and Royal Oak.
There are better more interesting cars and Watches than Porsche and Rolex than can be enjoyed tomorrow!
Life is too short to wait for cars and watches. The time you get them you might not have the health to enjoy them.
I bought a McLaren and Royal Oak.
There are better more interesting cars and Watches than Porsche and Rolex than can be enjoyed tomorrow!
Life is too short to wait for cars and watches. The time you get them you might not have the health to enjoy them.
Jumpingjackflash said:
I will tell you what I think about the Rolex and Porsche Bubble.....
I bought a McLaren and Royal Oak.
There are better more interesting cars and Watches than Porsche and Rolex than can be enjoyed tomorrow!
Enjoyed.. if you can afford them..I bought a McLaren and Royal Oak.
There are better more interesting cars and Watches than Porsche and Rolex than can be enjoyed tomorrow!
Unless you're knocking about in a 570, both a significant step up
Edited by hixster on Wednesday 30th January 22:49
Edited by hixster on Thursday 31st January 08:07
lostkiwi said:
Fairest way is no pre-orders, no telephone reserves, no stupid lists, no preferential customers. First through the door with the cash gets it.
I tend to agree - as far as I am aware, the Seiko Boutique does this....The trouble, I suppose, with Rolex doing it, is that you'd have the equivalent of ticket touts buying up the watches and selling them at inflated prices.
Some dealers appear to be 'conditional selling', you can have one, but only if you buy this too.
Fair? What's fair got to with it? The AD is a business not a social service.
AD should sell hard-to-get items to its best customers. Good for the AD, good for the supporting customer.
Yes, one could argue that a potential new customer might one day become valuable to an AD but there are millions of potential new customers all shouting 'me, me, me....I want the Pepsi/Daytona/GT3...' so how can a dealer pick the good ones from the chancers?
The AD can't and doesn't have the time. Stick to business principles and sell to customers that demonstrate their support for the AD.
AD should sell hard-to-get items to its best customers. Good for the AD, good for the supporting customer.
Yes, one could argue that a potential new customer might one day become valuable to an AD but there are millions of potential new customers all shouting 'me, me, me....I want the Pepsi/Daytona/GT3...' so how can a dealer pick the good ones from the chancers?
The AD can't and doesn't have the time. Stick to business principles and sell to customers that demonstrate their support for the AD.
Edited by WizzBang on Thursday 31st January 15:54
From a business perspective (it is a business after all) then looking after frequent spending loyal customers is totally correct. I certainly do with mine, they are the lifeblood of my business but I don't sell anything exclusive!
I managed to gain a S/Steel Daytona 4 months ago from my AD, it was 2 years from enquiring. I've bought a Datejust plus a Breitling from them. My misses also has some bracelets and rings through them so a good history. I don't know what level of activity is needed but a very good relationship with owner / sales manger is absolute the key, my Daytona is a keeper, wear it every week.
On the other hand, I missed out on a Halo Porsche product and was very unhappy, so hypocrite am I !
For me I think been able to order on a list (with deposit) with a 3 year wait is acceptable, I would do that for either a watch or a car. I would very much wait for a GT3 knowing allocation certain! But if this just ends up with flipping, then pointless for manufacturer brand image and business model of AD, they might as well just service repeat valued customers as current.
One interesting option would be for the AD to be able to auction, an allocation each, above RRP. That way, the market dictates the sales price , I would expect a S/Steel Daytona would sell for £14k and a GT3 maybe £125k (pre-spec). On this basis, provides an opportunity for all to gain item at price thy deem reasonable and not a flipped watch/car!
I managed to gain a S/Steel Daytona 4 months ago from my AD, it was 2 years from enquiring. I've bought a Datejust plus a Breitling from them. My misses also has some bracelets and rings through them so a good history. I don't know what level of activity is needed but a very good relationship with owner / sales manger is absolute the key, my Daytona is a keeper, wear it every week.
On the other hand, I missed out on a Halo Porsche product and was very unhappy, so hypocrite am I !
For me I think been able to order on a list (with deposit) with a 3 year wait is acceptable, I would do that for either a watch or a car. I would very much wait for a GT3 knowing allocation certain! But if this just ends up with flipping, then pointless for manufacturer brand image and business model of AD, they might as well just service repeat valued customers as current.
One interesting option would be for the AD to be able to auction, an allocation each, above RRP. That way, the market dictates the sales price , I would expect a S/Steel Daytona would sell for £14k and a GT3 maybe £125k (pre-spec). On this basis, provides an opportunity for all to gain item at price thy deem reasonable and not a flipped watch/car!
From a business perspective (it is a business after all) then looking after frequent spending loyal customers is totally correct. I certainly do with mine, they are the lifeblood of my business but I don't sell anything exclusive!
I managed to gain a S/Steel Daytona 4 months ago from my AD, it was 2 years from enquiring. I've bought a Datejust plus a Breitling from them. My misses also has some bracelets and rings through them so a good history. I don't know what level of activity is needed but a very good relationship with owner / sales manger is absolute the key, my Daytona is a keeper, wear it every week.
On the other hand, I missed out on a Halo Porsche product and was very unhappy, so hypocrite am I !
For me I think been able to order on a list (with deposit) with a 3 year wait is acceptable, I would do that for either a watch or a car. I would very much wait for a GT3 knowing allocation certain! But if this just ends up with flipping, then pointless for manufacturer brand image and business model of AD, they might as well just service repeat valued customers as current.
One interesting option would be for the AD to be able to auction, an allocation each, above RRP. That way, the market dictates the sales price , I would expect a S/Steel Daytona would sell for £14k and a GT3 maybe £125k (pre-spec). On this basis, provides an opportunity for all to gain item at price thy deem reasonable and not a flipped watch/car!
I managed to gain a S/Steel Daytona 4 months ago from my AD, it was 2 years from enquiring. I've bought a Datejust plus a Breitling from them. My misses also has some bracelets and rings through them so a good history. I don't know what level of activity is needed but a very good relationship with owner / sales manger is absolute the key, my Daytona is a keeper, wear it every week.
On the other hand, I missed out on a Halo Porsche product and was very unhappy, so hypocrite am I !
For me I think been able to order on a list (with deposit) with a 3 year wait is acceptable, I would do that for either a watch or a car. I would very much wait for a GT3 knowing allocation certain! But if this just ends up with flipping, then pointless for manufacturer brand image and business model of AD, they might as well just service repeat valued customers as current.
One interesting option would be for the AD to be able to auction, an allocation each, above RRP. That way, the market dictates the sales price , I would expect a S/Steel Daytona would sell for £14k and a GT3 maybe £125k (pre-spec). On this basis, provides an opportunity for all to gain item at price thy deem reasonable and not a flipped watch/car!
lostkiwi said:
From a business perspective sell to the first customer through the door willing to pay list. Regular customers will often expect a discount. If it's a hard to get in demand item you've no need to pander to anyone.
Mate, you'd flunk the apprentice with this comment. Business 101 is that repeat customers are more valuable. Everyone knows this.Do really think you know how to sell watches better than an established business such as Rolex with 4.7Billion in annual sales and 115 years trading history?
Edited by hixster on Thursday 31st January 19:25
hixster said:
Mate, you'd flunk the apprentice with this comment. Business 101 is that repeat customers are more valuable. Everyone knows this.
Do really think you know how to sell watches better than an established business such as Rolex with 4.7Billion in annual sales and 115 years trading history?
Rolex don't sell watches to the public.Do really think you know how to sell watches better than an established business such as Rolex with 4.7Billion in annual sales and 115 years trading history?
Edited by hixster on Thursday 31st January 19:25
ADs do.
You're fired.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The bubble will last as long as there after folks daft enough to perpetuate this ridiculous waiting list/buy something you don't want scenario folks are buying into at the moment.
Edited by lostkiwi on Thursday 31st January 19:33
Edited by lostkiwi on Thursday 31st January 21:09
SagMan said:
From a business perspective (it is a business after all) then looking after frequent spending loyal customers is totally correct. I certainly do with mine, they are the lifeblood of my business but I don't sell anything exclusive!
I managed to gain a S/Steel Daytona 4 months ago from my AD, it was 2 years from enquiring. I've bought a Datejust plus a Breitling from them. My misses also has some bracelets and rings through them so a good history. I don't know what level of activity is needed but a very good relationship with owner / sales manger is absolute the key, my Daytona is a keeper, wear it every week.
On the other hand, I missed out on a Halo Porsche product and was very unhappy, so hypocrite am I !
For me I think been able to order on a list (with deposit) with a 3 year wait is acceptable, I would do that for either a watch or a car. I would very much wait for a GT3 knowing allocation certain! But if this just ends up with flipping, then pointless for manufacturer brand image and business model of AD, they might as well just service repeat valued customers as current.
One interesting option would be for the AD to be able to auction, an allocation each, above RRP. That way, the market dictates the sales price , I would expect a S/Steel Daytona would sell for £14k and a GT3 maybe £125k (pre-spec). On this basis, provides an opportunity for all to gain item at price thy deem reasonable and not a flipped watch/car!
CRINGE coming on...I managed to gain a S/Steel Daytona 4 months ago from my AD, it was 2 years from enquiring. I've bought a Datejust plus a Breitling from them. My misses also has some bracelets and rings through them so a good history. I don't know what level of activity is needed but a very good relationship with owner / sales manger is absolute the key, my Daytona is a keeper, wear it every week.
On the other hand, I missed out on a Halo Porsche product and was very unhappy, so hypocrite am I !
For me I think been able to order on a list (with deposit) with a 3 year wait is acceptable, I would do that for either a watch or a car. I would very much wait for a GT3 knowing allocation certain! But if this just ends up with flipping, then pointless for manufacturer brand image and business model of AD, they might as well just service repeat valued customers as current.
One interesting option would be for the AD to be able to auction, an allocation each, above RRP. That way, the market dictates the sales price , I would expect a S/Steel Daytona would sell for £14k and a GT3 maybe £125k (pre-spec). On this basis, provides an opportunity for all to gain item at price thy deem reasonable and not a flipped watch/car!
lostkiwi said:
Rolex don't sell watches to the public.
ADs do.
You're fired.
This is pedantic - the ADs are Rolex's sale channel and the sales strategy is tightly controlled, and sanctioned by the corporation.ADs do.
You're fired.
Training and guidelines are provided through seminars. Why do think nearly all ADs exhibit the same behaviour?
The AD pays a significant fee to Rolex to have the concession in addition to sales revenue - the AD status can be removed if performance is not good or adhered to.
Rolex control the sales process.
Edited by hixster on Friday 1st February 08:32
hixster said:
This is pedantic - the ADs are Rolex's sale channel and the sales strategy is tightly controlled, and sanctioned by the corporation.
Training and guidelines are provided through seminars. Why do think nearly all ADs exhibit the same behaviour?
The AD pays a significant fee to Rolex to have the concession in addition to sales revenue - the AD status can be removed if performance is not good or adhered to.
Rolex control the sales process.
I think the trouble is that you’ve backed yourself into a corner by describing a very exact process and called it a “U.K. sales procedure” adhered to by all dealers which clearly isn’t the case. Training and guidelines are provided through seminars. Why do think nearly all ADs exhibit the same behaviour?
The AD pays a significant fee to Rolex to have the concession in addition to sales revenue - the AD status can be removed if performance is not good or adhered to.
Rolex control the sales process.
Edited by hixster on Friday 1st February 08:32
Although dealers have rules from Rolex, they still have leeway over who they sell to, whether they keep lists etc and things like whether they keep the warranty card.
So now you’re having to reluctantly concede that not all dealers are following the same procedure.
El stovey said:
hixster said:
This is pedantic - the ADs are Rolex's sale channel and the sales strategy is tightly controlled, and sanctioned by the corporation.
Training and guidelines are provided through seminars. Why do think nearly all ADs exhibit the same behaviour?
The AD pays a significant fee to Rolex to have the concession in addition to sales revenue - the AD status can be removed if performance is not good or adhered to.
Rolex control the sales process.
I think the trouble is that you’ve backed yourself into a corner by describing a very exact process and called it a “U.K. sales procedure” adhered to by all dealers which clearly isn’t the case. Training and guidelines are provided through seminars. Why do think nearly all ADs exhibit the same behaviour?
The AD pays a significant fee to Rolex to have the concession in addition to sales revenue - the AD status can be removed if performance is not good or adhered to.
Rolex control the sales process.
Edited by hixster on Friday 1st February 08:32
Although dealers have rules from Rolex, they still have leeway over who they sell to, whether they keep lists etc and things like whether they keep the warranty card.
So now you’re having to reluctantly concede that not all dealers are following the same procedure.
I haven’t backed myself into anything or conceded anything. I’ve consistently stated the case that there is a defined sales process which Rolex use.
You’re irrationally clutching at straws.My reference to the UK is related to my experience, but you'll see this Worldwide.. go and have a look at a few other Watch Forums, you'll see the same in Europe, North America, all over.
I happen to have explored the possibility of buying in Spain, France and Germany, the experience has been the same.
Of course there is flexibility, stores are run by humans, not robots, I haven't denied that. I said that ultimately it is the MD of the store who decides. (read my posts).
But the supply and distribution is what it is and comes from Rolex. Nearly all of examples you’ve sited as being first time buyers have actually transpired to be prior Rolex customers.
As far as I can see - There are two people in these forums who have walked into a store and 'claimed' to have purchased an SS Daytona with no prior purchase, both are in Switzerland and both in Financial Services..both could be considered VIP customers.
Edited by hixster on Friday 1st February 09:45
El stovey said:
Could you state clearly what this “defined sales process” is and who it’s defined by?
More obfuscation and avoiding debate. If you can't read El, I can't help you. Work it out - look at the forums and you can reverse engineer it.
Edited by hixster on Friday 1st February 09:51
hixster said:
El stovey said:
Could you state clearly what this “defined sales process” is and who it’s defined by?
Work it out - look at the forums and you can reverse engineer it.Then there’s you banging on about defined processes but some shops obviously not following it. Then you’re saying they’re free to do what they want but are strictly controlled by Rolex. Then earlier on there’s other people saying they’ve bought Daytona’s as first watches.
It doesn’t look that defined really.
So what exactly do you think this “defined sales process” is?
If you can’t do that, perhaps it’s easier just to agree that although generally most dealerships are allocating harder to get watches to known customers, there is actually no defined process at all.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 1st February 09:57
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