Has the Rolex bubble finally burst? Perhaps it has
Discussion
At the end of the day guys Rolex didn't create this madness, the public did (i may get flamed for that but hey ho). There is no law in Switzerland that states they have to up their production to meet demand, not that i'm aware of anyway. There are other excellent brands out there in this price band so look elsewhere, plus they're not that amazing. Their bracelets are excellent though to be fair.
All i know is i'm sick of online Watch Youtubers beating the crap out of the brand just because they can't get one (even Federico Talks Watches - for someone who spits bullets at them and constantly bangs on about how many other 'better' brands there are out there he still finds plenty of time to talk about them. Funny that.). They clearly just do it for the hits / subs and it's turning into a pretty pathetic slanging match online and the youtubers like Russ the Mad Watch Collector, Fed etc are just embarrassing themselves these days.
If you really MUST have one my advice is just pony up. They're still f*cking expensive even at retail so if you're in a position to pay nearly £8K on a Submariner you're likely in a position to spend £11K on one, and they market has generally / historically protected that extra couple of grand so what's the problem? I just realised that rather than suck up to AD's and spend hours moaning online about lack of availability i might as well put some overtime at work in and pay the extra. That was easier for me than trudging the streets sucking up to AD's which i'd never do anyway. I then found that weirdly i was getting more traction in the AD anyway as i walked in wearing one so they then know you're serious.
If people like the idea of paying only retail as that's their inner principles then fair enough i get that. But i suspect there's more to it than that. Some people love the idea of being 'ahead' and banking that equity but if that's what turns people on then go for it.
Horses for courses but i just realised i may be dead tomorrow so i may as well pay the market rate. Each to his / her own.
All i know is i'm sick of online Watch Youtubers beating the crap out of the brand just because they can't get one (even Federico Talks Watches - for someone who spits bullets at them and constantly bangs on about how many other 'better' brands there are out there he still finds plenty of time to talk about them. Funny that.). They clearly just do it for the hits / subs and it's turning into a pretty pathetic slanging match online and the youtubers like Russ the Mad Watch Collector, Fed etc are just embarrassing themselves these days.
If you really MUST have one my advice is just pony up. They're still f*cking expensive even at retail so if you're in a position to pay nearly £8K on a Submariner you're likely in a position to spend £11K on one, and they market has generally / historically protected that extra couple of grand so what's the problem? I just realised that rather than suck up to AD's and spend hours moaning online about lack of availability i might as well put some overtime at work in and pay the extra. That was easier for me than trudging the streets sucking up to AD's which i'd never do anyway. I then found that weirdly i was getting more traction in the AD anyway as i walked in wearing one so they then know you're serious.
If people like the idea of paying only retail as that's their inner principles then fair enough i get that. But i suspect there's more to it than that. Some people love the idea of being 'ahead' and banking that equity but if that's what turns people on then go for it.
Horses for courses but i just realised i may be dead tomorrow so i may as well pay the market rate. Each to his / her own.
Just to add, and i know this may sound a bit profound, but you have to ask yourselves why you really want one so much. For me it's because my late father loved them but never got around to affording one before he died, so i did it partly for him but also partly as i love the engineering, robustness, history and believe it or not a way to reliably tell the time for the rest of the days i have on this earth (which is also why i chose a Sub not a Sub Date as i don't really care what the date is and i just use my phone for that).
If all you want a Rolex for is to tick it off your bucket list, for bragging rights down the pub or to make a profit then i think you'll be disappointed. Also that kind of attitude is only feeding back into the whole thing making the problem worse.
Buy one if you really must but i wouldn't sell a kidney for one they ain't that great.
If all you want a Rolex for is to tick it off your bucket list, for bragging rights down the pub or to make a profit then i think you'll be disappointed. Also that kind of attitude is only feeding back into the whole thing making the problem worse.
Buy one if you really must but i wouldn't sell a kidney for one they ain't that great.
An interest subtext to all of this in RRP pricing. Rolex clearly feel that substantial rises can be taken by the market. Whilst I am sure much of this is weakness of GBP and general inflation, rises have been heavy. I'm sure their assessment of what people are willing to pay over RRP led to some of the decision making.
But has anyone seen what Omega has done? A watch I bought for £5600 RRP (admittedly I got a small discount) two years ago is now £7500 RRP. That is a big change.
But has anyone seen what Omega has done? A watch I bought for £5600 RRP (admittedly I got a small discount) two years ago is now £7500 RRP. That is a big change.
In Schipol at the moment & wandered past the Rolex shop.
Witnessed one of the sweetest ways of trying to charm the assistant. There was a boy of around 8 or 9 staring at all the watches on display. From what I could gather the assistant was explaining he had none to actually sell. Little boy had a big bag of Haribo’s…… he opened the bag & offered the assistant some…. The assistant smiled & I caught him shake his head & say not even for some Haribo’s
Witnessed one of the sweetest ways of trying to charm the assistant. There was a boy of around 8 or 9 staring at all the watches on display. From what I could gather the assistant was explaining he had none to actually sell. Little boy had a big bag of Haribo’s…… he opened the bag & offered the assistant some…. The assistant smiled & I caught him shake his head & say not even for some Haribo’s
Dimebars said:
Louis Balfour said:
I don't know what a "blether" is, but a "cuppy" sounds like some sort of reach-around, the details of which I am happy should evade me.
It's all a bit...................tragic.......Dimebars said:
Louis Balfour said:
I don't know what a "blether" is, but a "cuppy" sounds like some sort of reach-around, the details of which I am happy should evade me.
It's all a bit...................tragic.......Like most on here, I don't play these games - walk in and buy or walk away. Life's too short and the dealers are just moving cups of water about in the desert.
Harry Flashman said:
An interest subtext to all of this in RRP pricing. Rolex clearly feel that substantial rises can be taken by the market. Whilst I am sure much of this is weakness of GBP and general inflation, rises have been heavy. I'm sure their assessment of what people are willing to pay over RRP led to some of the decision making.
But has anyone seen what Omega has done? A watch I bought for £5600 RRP (admittedly I got a small discount) two years ago is now £7500 RRP. That is a big change.
My P.O admittedly last of the prior movement was £3123 in 2017 & I've just checked Beaverbrooks website & the equivalent new movement version is now £6200! But has anyone seen what Omega has done? A watch I bought for £5600 RRP (admittedly I got a small discount) two years ago is now £7500 RRP. That is a big change.
okgo said:
"blether
SCOTTISH
verb
talk in a long-winded way without making very much sense.
"there's plenty of stuff I could blether about from today"
noun
long-winded talk with no real substance.
"some stupid blether about puns surrounding the Beatles""
Ha.
I'm Scottish and have never, ever used or heard of the phrase "cuppy"SCOTTISH
verb
talk in a long-winded way without making very much sense.
"there's plenty of stuff I could blether about from today"
noun
long-winded talk with no real substance.
"some stupid blether about puns surrounding the Beatles""
Ha.
Reach-around, yes. Cuppy, no.
As I said earlier, PH operates at the extremes, those with an agenda exaggerate everything. The AD I use didn't know what I did for a living for ages, never asked when I first registered.
So all this stuff about being interviewed for a watch is nonsense in my opinion. After you deal with the same individual on a number of occasions it's inevitable that you will get to know a bit about each other.
If you're the sort of person who would walk in and literally say "here's my card now just give me the watch and don't give me any chit chat" then good luck to you.
If SA's do ask some general questions about you it's because they are told to do so in an effort to enhance your 'customer experience'. They will note it down so that they have something to talk to you about next time. They see it as part of the 'luxury experience'.
It's not something that I'm particularly interested in but it's no different to how the concierge at a luxury hotel will know your name and ask how your day has been. Or the Maitre D will remember which table, wine, dish you like. After all, you're spending a lot more on this watch then you ever would at a restaurant
So all this stuff about being interviewed for a watch is nonsense in my opinion. After you deal with the same individual on a number of occasions it's inevitable that you will get to know a bit about each other.
If you're the sort of person who would walk in and literally say "here's my card now just give me the watch and don't give me any chit chat" then good luck to you.
If SA's do ask some general questions about you it's because they are told to do so in an effort to enhance your 'customer experience'. They will note it down so that they have something to talk to you about next time. They see it as part of the 'luxury experience'.
It's not something that I'm particularly interested in but it's no different to how the concierge at a luxury hotel will know your name and ask how your day has been. Or the Maitre D will remember which table, wine, dish you like. After all, you're spending a lot more on this watch then you ever would at a restaurant
To a large extent, I suppose it depends on what sort of person you are. Introvert, extrovert, gregarious, reserved, and so on.
I can only speak for myself, but when I'm either making a purchase, or selling something, I want the encounter to be polite, honest, brief, and transactional. I ask to buy something, I pay, I thank them for their assistance, and I leave with the purchase made.
I am a very polite person, but I find making small talk or engaging in chit chat of a personal nature with salesmen or strangers somewhat forced, and I would rather not do it. I'm quite a private person. I have a great circle of friends who I socialise with regularly, but I'm not one of those who can 'work the room', not do I want to become friends with everyone I meet. I honestly do not want to know a random persons life story, and I don't want them to know mine.
I have zero interest in any associated pomp and ceremony when buying anything and would find it embarrassing. Some people are a lot more outgoing, or more chatty, or happy to make smalltalk with salesmen, and other people, which is absolutely fine. We are all different.
If knowing the names of salesmens kids, popping into a shop once a month pretending to be interested, or being added to some imaginary waiting list is what is involved in buying a watch, then personally, I would just buy something else, and indeed have done.
I bought a GMT and a Sub, and a Datejust for my wife in the years before all this silliness started, and that was totally fine. Once things went daft (which let us remember was only a few years ago) then I lost all interest in buying another Rolex.
t you had to endure to get one.
There are so many other brands.
Absolutely this.
Just buy from another brand. Even if you manage to get an AirKing, you probably won't forget the unpleasant nature of the buying experience. The waiting time, the apparent requirement to explain yourself to the AD, the lies and evasive answers about waiting lists or your position in the pecking order, the smoke and mirrors. Really, all anyone wants is to go into a shop, hand the money over, and walk out with the item they want. No one wants to wait or play games.
The brands worn most by myself now are Seiko, Breitling, and Casio. Sub/GMT rarely get worn for various reasons.
Go into a Seiko/Grand Seiko or an Omega boutique/AD, speak to the salespeople, and see what watch buying should actually be like. (IMO of course)
I can only speak for myself, but when I'm either making a purchase, or selling something, I want the encounter to be polite, honest, brief, and transactional. I ask to buy something, I pay, I thank them for their assistance, and I leave with the purchase made.
I am a very polite person, but I find making small talk or engaging in chit chat of a personal nature with salesmen or strangers somewhat forced, and I would rather not do it. I'm quite a private person. I have a great circle of friends who I socialise with regularly, but I'm not one of those who can 'work the room', not do I want to become friends with everyone I meet. I honestly do not want to know a random persons life story, and I don't want them to know mine.
I have zero interest in any associated pomp and ceremony when buying anything and would find it embarrassing. Some people are a lot more outgoing, or more chatty, or happy to make smalltalk with salesmen, and other people, which is absolutely fine. We are all different.
If knowing the names of salesmens kids, popping into a shop once a month pretending to be interested, or being added to some imaginary waiting list is what is involved in buying a watch, then personally, I would just buy something else, and indeed have done.
I bought a GMT and a Sub, and a Datejust for my wife in the years before all this silliness started, and that was totally fine. Once things went daft (which let us remember was only a few years ago) then I lost all interest in buying another Rolex.
gregs656 said:
Octoposse said:
Thanks - I think I’ll avoid the watch bit of Pistonheads for a while now!
Backstory’s more to try to understand why this stupid first world problem has got under my (generally a rational being) skin so much.
Touched by genuine kindness shown.
Forget about the Airking. Every time you look at it you will just be reminded of the bullsBackstory’s more to try to understand why this stupid first world problem has got under my (generally a rational being) skin so much.
Touched by genuine kindness shown.
t you had to endure to get one.There are so many other brands.
Absolutely this.
Just buy from another brand. Even if you manage to get an AirKing, you probably won't forget the unpleasant nature of the buying experience. The waiting time, the apparent requirement to explain yourself to the AD, the lies and evasive answers about waiting lists or your position in the pecking order, the smoke and mirrors. Really, all anyone wants is to go into a shop, hand the money over, and walk out with the item they want. No one wants to wait or play games.
The brands worn most by myself now are Seiko, Breitling, and Casio. Sub/GMT rarely get worn for various reasons.
Go into a Seiko/Grand Seiko or an Omega boutique/AD, speak to the salespeople, and see what watch buying should actually be like. (IMO of course)
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 29th March 12:52
Deep said:
If SA's do ask some general questions about you it's because they are told to do so in an effort to enhance your 'customer experience'. They will note it down so that they have something to talk to you about next time.
Are they not like car sales people who change jobs every 5 mins so you never see the same one twice?Lord Marylebone said:
Absolutely this.
Just buy from another brand. Even if you manage to get an AirKing, you probably won't forget the unpleasant nature of the buying experience. The waiting time, the apparent requirement to explain yourself to the AD, the lies and evasive answers about waiting lists or your position in the pecking order, the smoke and mirrors. Really, all anyone wants is to go into a shop, hand the money over, and walk out with the item they want. No one wants to wait or play games.
The brands worn most by myself now are Seiko, Breitling, and Casio. Sub/GMT rarely get worn for various reasons.
Go into a Seiko/Grand Seiko or an Omega boutique/AD, speak to the salespeople, and see what watch buying should actually be like. (IMO of course)
Edited by Lord Marylebone on Wednesday 29th March 12:52
My AD does not know my children's names even though they have been in the store. I do not know my AD's children's names.
Any conversation we have is probably about 20 minutes whilst they're sizing the watch and I'm paying. At least half of that will be about watches.
I think I may have popped in once when I wasn't actually buying a watch to say hello and that was only because they spotted me walking past and waved. There was no cupping involved.
However those short 20 minute conversations when done 3 or 4 times a year mean you do get to know a little about each other. They know my favourite hobby and will ask about it when I'm there. I know his particular interest/hobby and I will do likewise. It's just polite and avoids awkward silences whilst purchasing.
The PH mob are trying to make this into something it isn't.
Deep said:
I'm the same as you. I'm not socially awkward but also not an extrovert by any stretch. I don't like to talk about my inner thoughts, my children or anything else personal with anyone other than those people I have known for decades...my inner circle.
My AD does not know my children's names even though they have been in the store. I do not know my AD's children's names.
Any conversation we have is probably about 20 minutes whilst they're sizing the watch and I'm paying. At least half of that will be about watches.
I think I may have popped in once when I wasn't actually buying a watch to say hello and that was only because they spotted me walking past and waved. There was no cupping involved.
However those short 20 minute conversations when done 3 or 4 times a year mean you do get to know a little about each other. They know my favourite hobby and will ask about it when I'm there. I know his particular interest/hobby and I will do likewise. It's just polite and avoids awkward silences whilst purchasing.
The PH mob are trying to make this into something it isn't.
I totally get all that, but clearly you are being sold watches, which is great. I'm sure if Octoposse was being sold the watches he wanted, he wouldn't mind a brief sit down and chat for 20 mins during the sale. I wouldn't mind that.My AD does not know my children's names even though they have been in the store. I do not know my AD's children's names.
Any conversation we have is probably about 20 minutes whilst they're sizing the watch and I'm paying. At least half of that will be about watches.
I think I may have popped in once when I wasn't actually buying a watch to say hello and that was only because they spotted me walking past and waved. There was no cupping involved.
However those short 20 minute conversations when done 3 or 4 times a year mean you do get to know a little about each other. They know my favourite hobby and will ask about it when I'm there. I know his particular interest/hobby and I will do likewise. It's just polite and avoids awkward silences whilst purchasing.
The PH mob are trying to make this into something it isn't.
But he isn't being sold any watches, despite asking. He is one of the tens of thousands who keep asking to buy something, and are just given the run around, with absolutely no end in sight, for reasons known only to the AD.
I was just trying to suggest that he should bomb Rolex off and buy something else, as it doesn't seem worth the anguish to continue going into Rolex AD's and made to feel worthless because they still haven't sold him what he wants.
Lord Marylebone said:
I totally get all that, but clearly you are being sold watches, which is great. I'm sure if Octoposse was being sold the watches he wanted, he wouldn't mind a brief sit down and chat for 20 mins during the sale. I wouldn't mind that.
But he isn't being sold any watches, despite asking. He is one of the tens of thousands who keep asking to buy something, and are just given the run around, with absolutely no end in sight, for reasons known only to the AD.
I was just trying to suggest that he should bomb Rolex off and buy something else, as it doesn't seem worth the anguish to continue going into Rolex AD's and made to feel worthless because they still haven't sold him what he wants.
Completely agree on your last point and said exactly the same to him earlier.But he isn't being sold any watches, despite asking. He is one of the tens of thousands who keep asking to buy something, and are just given the run around, with absolutely no end in sight, for reasons known only to the AD.
I was just trying to suggest that he should bomb Rolex off and buy something else, as it doesn't seem worth the anguish to continue going into Rolex AD's and made to feel worthless because they still haven't sold him what he wants.
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