Has the Rolex bubble finally burst? Perhaps it has
Discussion
Wheelspinning said:
The safe isn't full, as the watches are allocated very quickly as you understand, and new watches arrive weekly.
Back in the olden days (late 90’s/early 00’s) we had stock in the windows and only a few sports models with waiting lists. We used to get automatic replenishment of generic window stock a couple of days after the watch had sold - all Datejusts etc. We took a £500 deposit for S/S Daytonas but everything else was a free list. Then every four weeks on a Saturday the WAH WAH parcel would arrive! It was dubbed the parcel as the white tape had blue writing with WAH repeated all the way down it. This contained the good stuff! S/S sports models, even the occasional Daytona. You knew you were going to have a good day that day as the list customers would all be in that afternoon.
Good times, maybe one day we’ll get back to them.. but that bubble seems a long way away from bursting.
bristolbaron said:
Back in the olden days (late 90’s/early 00’s) we had stock in the windows and only a few sports models with waiting lists. We used to get automatic replenishment of generic window stock a couple of days after the watch had sold - all Datejusts etc. We took a £500 deposit for S/S Daytonas but everything else was a free list.
Then every four weeks on a Saturday the WAH WAH parcel would arrive! It was dubbed the parcel as the white tape had blue writing with WAH repeated all the way down it. This contained the good stuff! S/S sports models, even the occasional Daytona. You knew you were going to have a good day that day as the list customers would all be in that afternoon.
Good times, maybe one day we’ll get back to them.. but that bubble seems a long way away from bursting.
I can remember putting a £500 deposit on my Daytona in 1999/2000 , only to have it returned about two years later as the AD sold his independent shop.Then every four weeks on a Saturday the WAH WAH parcel would arrive! It was dubbed the parcel as the white tape had blue writing with WAH repeated all the way down it. This contained the good stuff! S/S sports models, even the occasional Daytona. You knew you were going to have a good day that day as the list customers would all be in that afternoon.
Good times, maybe one day we’ll get back to them.. but that bubble seems a long way away from bursting.
I had to write to Rolex and express my concern that I’d lost my place through no fault of my own before the order was satisfied through a different AD.
Picked it up in 2003 , still wear it most weeks , although it has suffered in gaining a patina ….
Buster73 said:
I can remember putting a £500 deposit on my Daytona in 1999/2000 , only to have it returned about two years later as the AD sold his independent shop.
I had to write to Rolex and express my concern that I’d lost my place through no fault of my own before the order was satisfied through a different AD.
Picked it up in 2003 , still wear it most weeks , although it has suffered in gaining a patina ….
Well done for keeping hold of it all this time! After I left watch sales I put my name on a list with Ernest Jones. The call came in after a couple of years, but it was terrible timing - There’d just been a price increase, I had two days to scrape funds together and was absolutely skint.. so turned it down. Had I bought it I’d have definitely ended up having to sell it shortly after, so don’t kick myself too badly, but it would’ve been nice to have owned one. I had to write to Rolex and express my concern that I’d lost my place through no fault of my own before the order was satisfied through a different AD.
Picked it up in 2003 , still wear it most weeks , although it has suffered in gaining a patina ….
Wheelspinning said:
As was explained to me, they have an idea of some of the watches that come in, and others they didn't know about.
Almost every watch has a 'list', and the manager goes through the list for each watch and makes the call; that list will consist of known 'regular' customers, known customers and people that came in, put their name down and have never been in touch again.
The list is in chronological order of date of interest placed, and it is as simple as going through that list as people do decline, don't respond or they no longer desire that watch, as what happens a lot now you aren't making instant huge cash on allocation.
If after x amount of calls and the watch isn't allocated, it then falls into the last 2 categories which is very regular customers getting a call about a watch they didn't request, a call to the 'never heard from again' or what happened to myself, right place, right time.
The more hard to obtain watches aren't decided at branch level; the manager puts forward the list and suggestions, and guess what; those who have a mixed purchase history with the AD shall get offered.
The safe isn't full, as the watches are allocated very quickly as you understand, and new watches arrive weekly.
So in a nutshell it falls into 'regular customer' or 'luck'.
Surely this is contradictory information. Either watches are allocated in chronological order or they are ‘allocated’ randomly based on store relationship. It can’t be both. I’d also say there is no way the list can be allocated chronologically otherwise everyone would eventually get the watch they want (even if you take the extremely popular models out of the equation). Almost every watch has a 'list', and the manager goes through the list for each watch and makes the call; that list will consist of known 'regular' customers, known customers and people that came in, put their name down and have never been in touch again.
The list is in chronological order of date of interest placed, and it is as simple as going through that list as people do decline, don't respond or they no longer desire that watch, as what happens a lot now you aren't making instant huge cash on allocation.
If after x amount of calls and the watch isn't allocated, it then falls into the last 2 categories which is very regular customers getting a call about a watch they didn't request, a call to the 'never heard from again' or what happened to myself, right place, right time.
The more hard to obtain watches aren't decided at branch level; the manager puts forward the list and suggestions, and guess what; those who have a mixed purchase history with the AD shall get offered.
The safe isn't full, as the watches are allocated very quickly as you understand, and new watches arrive weekly.
So in a nutshell it falls into 'regular customer' or 'luck'.
If you walked into any AD you’d never been to, 300 miles from where you live in shorts, flip flops and a football shirt and put your name down for the absolute least desirable model do you think you’d receive the watch in chronological order? I personally doubt it. You would likely never get phoned. Therefore it can’t be chronological.
Geertsen said:
Wheelspinning said:
As was explained to me, they have an idea of some of the watches that come in, and others they didn't know about.
Almost every watch has a 'list', and the manager goes through the list for each watch and makes the call; that list will consist of known 'regular' customers, known customers and people that came in, put their name down and have never been in touch again.
The list is in chronological order of date of interest placed, and it is as simple as going through that list as people do decline, don't respond or they no longer desire that watch, as what happens a lot now you aren't making instant huge cash on allocation.
If after x amount of calls and the watch isn't allocated, it then falls into the last 2 categories which is very regular customers getting a call about a watch they didn't request, a call to the 'never heard from again' or what happened to myself, right place, right time.
The more hard to obtain watches aren't decided at branch level; the manager puts forward the list and suggestions, and guess what; those who have a mixed purchase history with the AD shall get offered.
The safe isn't full, as the watches are allocated very quickly as you understand, and new watches arrive weekly.
So in a nutshell it falls into 'regular customer' or 'luck'.
Surely this is contradictory information. Either watches are allocated in chronological order or they are ‘allocated’ randomly based on store relationship. It can’t be both. I’d also say there is no way the list can be allocated chronologically otherwise everyone would eventually get the watch they want (even if you take the extremely popular models out of the equation). Almost every watch has a 'list', and the manager goes through the list for each watch and makes the call; that list will consist of known 'regular' customers, known customers and people that came in, put their name down and have never been in touch again.
The list is in chronological order of date of interest placed, and it is as simple as going through that list as people do decline, don't respond or they no longer desire that watch, as what happens a lot now you aren't making instant huge cash on allocation.
If after x amount of calls and the watch isn't allocated, it then falls into the last 2 categories which is very regular customers getting a call about a watch they didn't request, a call to the 'never heard from again' or what happened to myself, right place, right time.
The more hard to obtain watches aren't decided at branch level; the manager puts forward the list and suggestions, and guess what; those who have a mixed purchase history with the AD shall get offered.
The safe isn't full, as the watches are allocated very quickly as you understand, and new watches arrive weekly.
So in a nutshell it falls into 'regular customer' or 'luck'.
If you walked into any AD you’d never been to, 300 miles from where you live in shorts, flip flops and a football shirt and put your name down for the absolute least desirable model do you think you’d receive the watch in chronological order? I personally doubt it. You would likely never get phoned. Therefore it can’t be chronological.
If you want to register an interest in a watch, or go on the 'list', you have to go in, submit details and other bits and pieces and that is all logged onto their system.
When a watch comes in, they access that database and look at who put the interest in and when; they then filter as I detailed previously.
You may be the person registered for the longest for that watch, but they filter through on the criteria as previously mentioned.
With the high demand Daytonas, GMTs etc, the same database is checked and filtered even more; that is then put to above branch level. The branch can put forward reasons who they recommend, but they do not make the choice. You don't really need to have 2nd or 3rd options for those watches in the event of someone declining as it very rarely happens.
Unless you enquire and the 'list' is closed for the watch you desire, your details shall be taken, logged and inserted wherever on the list you fall chronologically; but yes, it certainly doesn't mean you will ever be allocated one, but you never know.
The 2nd watch I was offered was a Daytona that I had been told 8 weeks previously that around 5 years is the usual waiting time, so figure that one out.
Later this week when my AD is allowed to open the 'lists' for the new release watches and will be inundated from all over the UK.
You can only register instore though, and allocations shall all be subjected to what I posted previously; you might well have been the first in there at 9am and be chronologically first on the list for say the new GMT, but that doesnt guarantee a call or allocation.
They AD can have it both ways as its their ball unfortunately.
Fair? No. How it is; yes. Sucky? Definitely.
However, it's the similar set up with any luxury item that is hard to aquire new such as Hermes bags, Ferraris, Porsche GT products etc etc.
Wheelspinning said:
And why is that OKGO?
Some keyboard warrior types going to keep posting about 'cupping' or some other stuff everyone else skips over?
Thanks for the advice but I think I might just be able to cope with bores that offer nothing.
Maybe if they could inject a different slant and make it into a funny post, that would be entertaining; but as with these types, just like in the real world, it's way beyond their capabilities.
What’s this cupping thing? Some keyboard warrior types going to keep posting about 'cupping' or some other stuff everyone else skips over?
Thanks for the advice but I think I might just be able to cope with bores that offer nothing.
Maybe if they could inject a different slant and make it into a funny post, that would be entertaining; but as with these types, just like in the real world, it's way beyond their capabilities.
Wheelspinning said:
As was explained to me, they have an idea of some of the watches that come in, and others they didn't know about.
Almost every watch has a 'list', and the manager goes through the list for each watch and makes the call; that list will consist of known 'regular' customers, known customers and people that came in, put their name down and have never been in touch again.
The list in in chronological order of date of interest placed, and it is as simple as going through that list as people do decline, don't respond or they no longer desire that watch, as what happens a lot now you aren't making instant huge cash on allocation.
If after x amount of calls and the watch isn't allocated, it then falls into the last 2 categories which is very regular customers getting a call about a watch they didn't request, a call to the 'never heard from again' or what happened to myself, right place, right time.
The more hard to obtain watches aren't decided at branch level; the manager puts forward the list and suggestions, and guess what; those who have a mixed purchase history with the AD shall get offered.
The safe isn't full, as the watches are allocated very quickly as you understand, and new watches arrive weekly.
So in a nutshell it falls into 'regular customer' or 'luck'.
Surely it varies from shop to shop? What you’ve been told might be true for the shop you went to but it doesn’t mean all dealers are doing the same thing or even the same things all the time. Almost every watch has a 'list', and the manager goes through the list for each watch and makes the call; that list will consist of known 'regular' customers, known customers and people that came in, put their name down and have never been in touch again.
The list in in chronological order of date of interest placed, and it is as simple as going through that list as people do decline, don't respond or they no longer desire that watch, as what happens a lot now you aren't making instant huge cash on allocation.
If after x amount of calls and the watch isn't allocated, it then falls into the last 2 categories which is very regular customers getting a call about a watch they didn't request, a call to the 'never heard from again' or what happened to myself, right place, right time.
The more hard to obtain watches aren't decided at branch level; the manager puts forward the list and suggestions, and guess what; those who have a mixed purchase history with the AD shall get offered.
The safe isn't full, as the watches are allocated very quickly as you understand, and new watches arrive weekly.
So in a nutshell it falls into 'regular customer' or 'luck'.
u-boat said:
Surely it varies from shop to shop? What you’ve been told might be true for the shop you went to but it doesn’t mean all dealers are doing the same thing or even the same things all the time.
Yup, so I can only post what happens at my AD which is part of one of the largest groups and have the same procedures throughout, just like if any staff members does a Rolex with any protection still applied, it is a disciplinary offence if discovered.Small chains or individual ADs will have a different procedure no doubt.
Wheelspinning said:
Yup, so I can only post what happens at my AD which is part of one of the largest groups and have the same procedures throughout, just like if any staff members does a Rolex with any protection still applied, it is a disciplinary offence if discovered.
Small chains or individual ADs will have a different procedure no doubt.
does a Rolex without any protection?Small chains or individual ADs will have a different procedure no doubt.
Sounds a bit kinky
Wheelspinning said:
I do get that, but equally someone popping in twice a year and asking where they are on the list is wasting their time.
For me, we treated ourself to a break at the location where the AD happens to be located; we went in, seen a lovely ring for my wife and bought it. She had also seen a pair of earrings she loved so I took a mental note.
Whilst purchasing, we were offered a glass of champagne, tea or coffee, and then sat chewing the fat, whereby I mentioned no1 son was going to be 21 and would love to buy him a Rolex; the manageress overheard and then came through with a 41mm fluted Wimbledon that had came in that day and the person who ordered was undecided, and I was asked if they declined would we be interested.
We duly accepted.
4 months later I popped in to buy the earrings as a surprise for our wedding anniversary; again, offered a tea or coffee whilst doing the purchase, asked how my son was liking the watch, and if I would like to put 3 watches down on a wishlist.
6 weeks later I was offered a Daytona.
Since then, that's how it has been; no smoozing, and no 'cupping' whatever that is as some really funny dudes keep posting.
For no2 son, they contacted me as they had it on file his 21st was coming up, and offered me a 41 fluted blue faced Datejust.
In between, I would receive a call on a Friday afternoon asking if I would like a watch that had come in and was not allocated on had been declined.
I guess all ADs aren't like that, and maybe a bit of right place at right time, but that's how it all started for myself.
I think it's pretty obvious that the AD tagged you as someone who will probably spend tens of thousands of pounds at their store, on a mix of jewelry and watches, and they were right. For me, we treated ourself to a break at the location where the AD happens to be located; we went in, seen a lovely ring for my wife and bought it. She had also seen a pair of earrings she loved so I took a mental note.
Whilst purchasing, we were offered a glass of champagne, tea or coffee, and then sat chewing the fat, whereby I mentioned no1 son was going to be 21 and would love to buy him a Rolex; the manageress overheard and then came through with a 41mm fluted Wimbledon that had came in that day and the person who ordered was undecided, and I was asked if they declined would we be interested.
We duly accepted.
4 months later I popped in to buy the earrings as a surprise for our wedding anniversary; again, offered a tea or coffee whilst doing the purchase, asked how my son was liking the watch, and if I would like to put 3 watches down on a wishlist.
6 weeks later I was offered a Daytona.
Since then, that's how it has been; no smoozing, and no 'cupping' whatever that is as some really funny dudes keep posting.
For no2 son, they contacted me as they had it on file his 21st was coming up, and offered me a 41 fluted blue faced Datejust.
In between, I would receive a call on a Friday afternoon asking if I would like a watch that had come in and was not allocated on had been declined.
I guess all ADs aren't like that, and maybe a bit of right place at right time, but that's how it all started for myself.
I'm glad that Rolex don't make any watches that I actually like, so don't need to go through the AD rigmarole, it sounds like a nightmare for those only wanting to buy one specific watch.
This whole thread always reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rVV7rUv3p4
Zoon said:
Wheelspinning said:
Yup, so I can only post what happens at my AD which is part of one of the largest groups and have the same procedures throughout, just like if any staff members does a Rolex with any protection still applied, it is a disciplinary offence if discovered.
Small chains or individual ADs will have a different procedure no doubt.
does a Rolex without any protection?Small chains or individual ADs will have a different procedure no doubt.
Sounds a bit kinky
Somehow forgot to insert the words 'purchase handover' after Rolex!I meant all the clear protection thats fitted to all the surfaces from factory; its so it cannot be resold on the grey market 'with stickers'.
Stupot123 said:
Wheelspinning said:
Later this week when my AD is allowed to open the 'lists' for the new release watches and will be inundated from all over the UK.
Not sure they will be that inundated this year, lol!This year was a bit of a non event.
The demand for any of the new watches will still be very high; even the OP celebration last year which was unloved was still trading at 500% x list when they started arriving.
The bubble is reducing, but far from burst unfortunately.
Wheelspinning said:
They already have been and names cannot be added yet.
The demand for any of the new watches will still be very high; even the OP celebration last year which was unloved was still trading at 500% x list when they started arriving.
The bubble is reducing, but far from burst unfortunately.
Genuinely curious which ones?The demand for any of the new watches will still be very high; even the OP celebration last year which was unloved was still trading at 500% x list when they started arriving.
The bubble is reducing, but far from burst unfortunately.
The steel GMT is ok but average at best, and just screams not good enough to get allocated a BLNR or a BLRO.
The rest are all very niche precious metal variants, which would have fairly limited appeal even in the good times, but now gold depreciation is back with a vengeance I would have thought would be window watches.
Or am I missing something obvious?
Stupot123 said:
Genuinely curious which ones?
The steel GMT is ok but average at best, and just screams not good enough to get allocated a BLNR or a BLRO.
The rest are all very niche precious metal variants, which would have fairly limited appeal even in the good times, but now gold depreciation is back with a vengeance I would have thought would be window watches.
Or am I missing something obvious?
Each and every one that has been released will have a list that will have many more multiples of names against the few watches they shall get in.The steel GMT is ok but average at best, and just screams not good enough to get allocated a BLNR or a BLRO.
The rest are all very niche precious metal variants, which would have fairly limited appeal even in the good times, but now gold depreciation is back with a vengeance I would have thought would be window watches.
Or am I missing something obvious?
People will always desire to have the newset and hard to obtain in all materialistic items; fashion, watches, cars, handbags...the list goes on.
Ebay, watch collecting and the grey markets have literally dozens of the watches you named available for sale; they aren't hard to get hold of.
It will be a long time before you see anymore than a handful of the new releases for sale, and that's what creates the desire.
bristolbaron said:
Well done for keeping hold of it all this time! After I left watch sales I put my name on a list with Ernest Jones. The call came in after a couple of years, but it was terrible timing - There’d just been a price increase, I had two days to scrape funds together and was absolutely skint.. so turned it down. Had I bought it I’d have definitely ended up having to sell it shortly after, so don’t kick myself too badly, but it would’ve been nice to have owned one.
Paid £3670 which was rrp at the time , still didn’t stop me asking for a discount which unsurprisingly was rejected.Got a black faced Daytona a bit later at the same price from the same AD , still got that one but unworn with stickers in place in the safe.
Wheelspinning said:
Yup, so I can only post what happens at my AD which is part of one of the largest groups and have the same procedures throughout, just like if any staff members does a Rolex with any protection still applied, it is a disciplinary offence if discovered.
Small chains or individual ADs will have a different procedure no doubt.
Read your various posts about the allocation of watches , a friend of mine has had two Pepsi and a Daytona out of the same AD , I can’t get my head around it either…..Small chains or individual ADs will have a different procedure no doubt.
Wheelspinning said:
Each and every one that has been released will have a list that will have many more multiples of names against the few watches they shall get in.
People will always desire to have the newset and hard to obtain in all materialistic items; fashion, watches, cars, handbags...the list goes on.
Ebay, watch collecting and the grey markets have literally dozens of the watches you named available for sale; they aren't hard to get hold of.
It will be a long time before you see anymore than a handful of the new releases for sale, and that's what creates the desire.
I get the concept, I’ve collected for years, but I’m not so sure there will be the demand you think this time. A combination of the mediocre new watches, the speculative instant profit now gone, and the general change in disposable income/affordability. The market has changed more than you are giving it credit for.People will always desire to have the newset and hard to obtain in all materialistic items; fashion, watches, cars, handbags...the list goes on.
Ebay, watch collecting and the grey markets have literally dozens of the watches you named available for sale; they aren't hard to get hold of.
It will be a long time before you see anymore than a handful of the new releases for sale, and that's what creates the desire.
The steel GMT might have a short honeymoon period, but it’s a lacklustre release and I don’t think its value will have longevity, so you would need to love the watch and I can’t believe there will be that many that will prefer it to the other more colourful GMT’s, it’s bland and boring.
All the others are precious metal and you will absolutely and utterly blow your brains on, so boy would you need to love it.
None of that is conducive to high demand, you won’t need to queue round the block on the day they unlock their new lists! It will only be hardcore collectors putting their money where their mouth is, and they are few and far between.
In a way it’s good the speculative aspect is mostly gone, but the impact that has on demand cannot be underestimated, it’s a snowball effect.
Interesting times ahead.
Which of the new releases are you interested in and going for?
Edited by Stupot123 on Monday 15th April 21:48
Abc321 said:
Question: how do I buy a watch?
I know that's a ridiculous question but I haven't bought a Rolex before and am aware of 'the game'.
It is a milestone birthday for me this year, which I have been told MAY help my case?
Do I call up the store, ask to be put on a list? Go in to the store? Send an email? Obviously I want to give myself the best chance here.
I am torn between an OP41 (any colours easier/harder to get), a Sub (date or no date, whichever is easiest to 'get') or even a GMT 2 (any apart from the Rootbeer).
Is it worth hanging until until after the 2024 watches are announced? Or definitely better to get the ball rolling ASAP?
Any help is appreciated - I appreciate how ridiculous it all is.
Further to this, I have put my name down for a DJ41 green with jubilee strap and smooth bezel. Really happy with my choice and am confident of a phone call before my birthday in September.I know that's a ridiculous question but I haven't bought a Rolex before and am aware of 'the game'.
It is a milestone birthday for me this year, which I have been told MAY help my case?
Do I call up the store, ask to be put on a list? Go in to the store? Send an email? Obviously I want to give myself the best chance here.
I am torn between an OP41 (any colours easier/harder to get), a Sub (date or no date, whichever is easiest to 'get') or even a GMT 2 (any apart from the Rootbeer).
Is it worth hanging until until after the 2024 watches are announced? Or definitely better to get the ball rolling ASAP?
Any help is appreciated - I appreciate how ridiculous it all is.
The lady wouldn't let me put my name down for a green OP41. So a silver/white faced one or the DJ were the options going in to the 'meeting'.
I hate all the @rse kissing stuff but actually enjoyed the 'meeting'(not sure what to call it?!).
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