Has the Rolex bubble finally burst? Perhaps it has
Discussion
don logan said:
I remember the guys in a Rolex AD looking at mine with real excitement, they couldn’t get their heads around the quality for the price!
Did they think it was better quality than the Rolex? Or good for the price?Tudors used to have the Rolex coronet on their crowns, take a look at Tudor history if you want some perspective of the brand, not what they make now!
Savings give zero interest Perhaps negative soon.
Plus possible government raids in the future, to pay for Covid
Also form part of your estate, when you pop your clogs (ok watches do too, but surely purely academic)
It is tempting to buy some reasonable Rolex to get around all of the above
Plus the pleasure of owning, rather than looking at a number on banking app!
Plus possible government raids in the future, to pay for Covid
Also form part of your estate, when you pop your clogs (ok watches do too, but surely purely academic)
It is tempting to buy some reasonable Rolex to get around all of the above
Plus the pleasure of owning, rather than looking at a number on banking app!
lowdrag said:
I had a Tudor as my 21st birthday present. Worst watch I've ever owned, and that was when I discovered Seiko. The Tudor was probably the worst watch I've ever owned, but then it was aeons ago. Maybe they weren't part of Rolex then.
I bought my first Tudor last year and have to agree , its by far the most disappointing watch I own , sold a Rolex to buy it as well which I don't regret but the Tudor is even less of a keeper Algarve said:
I'm struggling to understand how the Tudor is a bargain, and the GMT is over priced, when it looks like if I'd bought a Tudor I'd be hoping to get my money back if I sold it tomorrow. Instead I went with the "massively overpriced" option of paying 8 or 9 grand for a watch thats now worth 15.
Because you seem to be basing a watch's "value" on what some watch dealer reckons he can gouge out of a mug punter rather than an assessment of the watch's merits?That £15k asking price is based on scarcity, hype and FOMO. This is fine but risky - what happens when you run out of "greater fools" to offload the watch on to? There can't be that many people willing to drop Patek money on a pre-owned mass produced SS watch...
I was window shopping earlier this week as it happens. Nothing of interest in the Rolex windows of course but there were BB 58s and GMTs there - I think you'd struggle to find anyone who'd argue that these watches weren't solid value for money.
Lots of good stuff in the Omega windows too - in particular the Seamaster - the equal at least of the Sub and I can't for the life of me see why the the Rolex should cost 50%+ more...
Algarve said:
I'm not sneering at anyone at all.
And yet ... “Tudor is the watch you buy when you wanted a Rolex but couldn't afford one .. a knock off”. There’s not much subtlety in a forum post, but it must be obvious that some people would consider that sneering.Anyway, no-one’s pointed out yet that the 58 in the Tudor’s name is a call back to the 1958 watch it’s based on.
bigandclever said:
Anyway, no-one’s pointed out yet that the 58 in the Tudor’s name is a call back to the 1958 watch it’s based on.
YepIt’s ironic that they aren’t a “new” brand and that they are directly connected to Rolex!
I keep looking at Tudor Subs, they are becoming a bit of a problem for me but I DON’T need another steel watch with a black bezel!
don logan said:
bigandclever said:
Anyway, no-one’s pointed out yet that the 58 in the Tudor’s name is a call back to the 1958 watch it’s based on.
YepIt’s ironic that they aren’t a “new” brand and that they are directly connected to Rolex!
I keep looking at Tudor Subs, they are becoming a bit of a problem for me but I DON’T need another steel watch with a black bezel!
It seems though that by constantly increasing the price of Rolex branded watches, Rolex have managed to basically slot tudor in where Rolex used to sit on the watch spectrum, with more ‘tool’ type models
It’s very clever as some people always want a Rolex but now more people will want a tudor too.
Rolex basically again demonstrating that they know a lot about making nice watches and money.
Let's accept that Algarve enjoys his Rolex and isn't a watch person. Its interesting to have somebody with that perspective on the forum.
Algarve - believe it or not, there are lots of people who care about the details and differences. Those people recognise and celebrate what may appear to be small differences. To us, it sounds ridiculous that you think a Black Bay 58 Blue and a GMT2 look the same. Hence a few people thought you were initially trolling.
For a watch person, they wouldn't even consider them to do the same thing - one is a dive watch, the other a travel watch. Both niches to be understood and cherished (and collected).
It may also be news to you that Rolex are pretty mid-market when it comes to watch brands.
If you want to ask questions, there are loads of people on this forum who know their stuff. Just ask, maybe start a thread?
Anyway, nice GMT2. Looks like you're enjoying using it.
Algarve - believe it or not, there are lots of people who care about the details and differences. Those people recognise and celebrate what may appear to be small differences. To us, it sounds ridiculous that you think a Black Bay 58 Blue and a GMT2 look the same. Hence a few people thought you were initially trolling.
For a watch person, they wouldn't even consider them to do the same thing - one is a dive watch, the other a travel watch. Both niches to be understood and cherished (and collected).
It may also be news to you that Rolex are pretty mid-market when it comes to watch brands.
If you want to ask questions, there are loads of people on this forum who know their stuff. Just ask, maybe start a thread?
Anyway, nice GMT2. Looks like you're enjoying using it.
My comments about the Rolex GMT Master being poor value are based upon buying one now, not 4/6/8 years ago.
Case in point: a mate of mine in the village bought his in Zermatt in 2001(ish), they weren’t selling well back then (apparently) and he even got a discount!
It’s not 2001 any more and GMT Masters are funny money now, it’s a brave man who will sink £15k into one (or whatever) and expect value appreciation.
Now, the Tudor GMT; buy pre-owned possibly at a slight discount, or new at an AD (they’re not in every window but they are out there), it’s not going to lose much if anything over the next few years as the wannabe Rolex GMT crowd shuffles over, a bit disappointed but realistic, sees the Tudor as the relative bargain it is, and continues to drive up demand for them.
The only downsides with them are:
-too thick, they’re chunky beasts
-the date issue with the early watches, which hopefully has now been sorted.
-the leather straps have the durability of wet cardboard and are arse-rapingly expensive to replace.
All just my opinions; I‘m not trying to start a fight, just add to the discussion.
Now, if any of you are in the market for a really good GMT check the new Mido Ocean Star gmt, which looks terrific.
Cheers all!
Case in point: a mate of mine in the village bought his in Zermatt in 2001(ish), they weren’t selling well back then (apparently) and he even got a discount!
It’s not 2001 any more and GMT Masters are funny money now, it’s a brave man who will sink £15k into one (or whatever) and expect value appreciation.
Now, the Tudor GMT; buy pre-owned possibly at a slight discount, or new at an AD (they’re not in every window but they are out there), it’s not going to lose much if anything over the next few years as the wannabe Rolex GMT crowd shuffles over, a bit disappointed but realistic, sees the Tudor as the relative bargain it is, and continues to drive up demand for them.
The only downsides with them are:
-too thick, they’re chunky beasts
-the date issue with the early watches, which hopefully has now been sorted.
-the leather straps have the durability of wet cardboard and are arse-rapingly expensive to replace.
All just my opinions; I‘m not trying to start a fight, just add to the discussion.
Now, if any of you are in the market for a really good GMT check the new Mido Ocean Star gmt, which looks terrific.
Cheers all!
Barchettaman said:
-the leather straps have the durability of wet cardboard and are arse-rapingly expensive to replace.
Anything I buy with a strap, I take it off just after purchase and put on an aftermarket one. I pretty much do the same with bracelets - I put the watches on straps normally, as I find I can't get a good fit with most OEM ones. Modern Rolex excepted.If I ever sell I just put the OEM strap back on. No arse raping costs incurred.
Tudor has always been a 'Diffusion' range of the main Brand Rolex. This is how it is now and how it was from the beginning.
I'm have no problem having Tudor as well as Rolex (and others) in my collection, variety is the spice of life.
Don't see why we need all the hate shown towards Tudor... It's well made watch, sold at a price that is reasonable for what you get.
I don't expect to make money if I sell my Tudors but then again, I have never bought any of my collection as a point of investment. I buy them (the watches in my collection) cause I like them and I really mean 'I' like them, not just what social media tells me what I should be liking.
I'm have no problem having Tudor as well as Rolex (and others) in my collection, variety is the spice of life.
Don't see why we need all the hate shown towards Tudor... It's well made watch, sold at a price that is reasonable for what you get.
I don't expect to make money if I sell my Tudors but then again, I have never bought any of my collection as a point of investment. I buy them (the watches in my collection) cause I like them and I really mean 'I' like them, not just what social media tells me what I should be liking.
I bought mines to keep forever, value of it was never really a major concern at the time of purchase. But now going into month 8 of zero wages its certainly a massive plus point knowing its effectively turned into an enjoyable saving account that could be cashed in with minimal hassle if I wanted to / needed to.
I originally bought a GMT around 15 years ago - red and blue dial. It cost me £2,350. It was worth 2-3 times that when I gave it away to a family member. Maybe I should have kept it, the cheapest one on watch finder is 12k now
My own current GMT was a simple, enjoyable purchase. No messing about with waiting lists or anything else. I bought another Rolex for mrs last year too, I can't remember what that one was so I can't check how much that's worth now. But like mines there would be zero intention to sell it. Again no hassle to buy it.
I think price gains alone would entirely remove any interest I may have ever had in considering other brands for my next watch when I start getting paid again.
For casual buyers like me that have no interest in watches as a whole, I can't see Rolex waiting lists etc scaring buyers off to any other brands. And certainly not ones a lot of people haven't heard of. My (very limited) experience with the brand has been nothing but positive. They'd need to do something pretty horrific with me for me to go buy elsewhere now. A few friends that have bought rolexes from the same shop as me (there is only one in the algarve) have all been happy with them too.
I originally bought a GMT around 15 years ago - red and blue dial. It cost me £2,350. It was worth 2-3 times that when I gave it away to a family member. Maybe I should have kept it, the cheapest one on watch finder is 12k now
My own current GMT was a simple, enjoyable purchase. No messing about with waiting lists or anything else. I bought another Rolex for mrs last year too, I can't remember what that one was so I can't check how much that's worth now. But like mines there would be zero intention to sell it. Again no hassle to buy it.
I think price gains alone would entirely remove any interest I may have ever had in considering other brands for my next watch when I start getting paid again.
For casual buyers like me that have no interest in watches as a whole, I can't see Rolex waiting lists etc scaring buyers off to any other brands. And certainly not ones a lot of people haven't heard of. My (very limited) experience with the brand has been nothing but positive. They'd need to do something pretty horrific with me for me to go buy elsewhere now. A few friends that have bought rolexes from the same shop as me (there is only one in the algarve) have all been happy with them too.
I thought for casual buyers the conversation went like this...
- Hello Mr Rolex salesperson, I’d like to buy a Rolex please.
- Certainly, I would be delighted to put you onto a secret waiting list. In a couple of years I might give you a call.
- You what mate?
Nice to hear that’s not always the case
- Hello Mr Rolex salesperson, I’d like to buy a Rolex please.
- Certainly, I would be delighted to put you onto a secret waiting list. In a couple of years I might give you a call.
- You what mate?
Nice to hear that’s not always the case
I have bought both Tudor and Rolex GMTs - admittedly the Tudor purchase was due to the inaccessibility of the Rolex. However, since purchasing the supposedly "real" GMT I'm keeping both as they're very different watches IMO.
The finishing is better on the R but arguably not 2-3x better, T is showing wear a lot faster than the R, T has had issues with the date wheel recently, despite the weight and chunkiness of the T it doesn't feel as robust as the R, but I will say that the T is far more legible to me.
I'll not be hitting the gym, doing DIY, or going to a work meeting with the Rolex any time soon.
Oddly I had to go through a waitlist for the Tudor but picked up the Rolex same day along with another purchase.
The finishing is better on the R but arguably not 2-3x better, T is showing wear a lot faster than the R, T has had issues with the date wheel recently, despite the weight and chunkiness of the T it doesn't feel as robust as the R, but I will say that the T is far more legible to me.
I'll not be hitting the gym, doing DIY, or going to a work meeting with the Rolex any time soon.
Oddly I had to go through a waitlist for the Tudor but picked up the Rolex same day along with another purchase.
I think as Tudor do more and more watches that are different they will get more and more desirable.
Rolex don't offer a BB58 type watch. I really thought they would add a sub with similar colours this year, but they didn't and that was probably a wise move as it allows them to push the desirability of Tudor up a notch as we have seen with wait lists and above list on the BB58 on the second hand market.
I really like many of the Rolex pieces, but I am also very aware that as a brand it can also have a negative view too. Tudor seems to offer a few pieces that fly under the radar a bit more than Rolex.
I actually prefer the Tudor GMT look wise to the Rolex GMT, however I find the 15mm case a little too deep, but aesthetically I prefer the less dressy look of the Tudor version.
Rolex don't offer a BB58 type watch. I really thought they would add a sub with similar colours this year, but they didn't and that was probably a wise move as it allows them to push the desirability of Tudor up a notch as we have seen with wait lists and above list on the BB58 on the second hand market.
I really like many of the Rolex pieces, but I am also very aware that as a brand it can also have a negative view too. Tudor seems to offer a few pieces that fly under the radar a bit more than Rolex.
I actually prefer the Tudor GMT look wise to the Rolex GMT, however I find the 15mm case a little too deep, but aesthetically I prefer the less dressy look of the Tudor version.
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