Has the Rolex bubble finally burst? Perhaps it has
Discussion
Lord Marylebone said:
Following the recent Rolex statement, several watch industry commentators have suggested that Rolex isn't happy with the way that AD's are 'allocating' the supply of watches, and Rolex worries it is harming the brand image.
This all speculation of course, but if the speculation is correct and Rolex are worried about leaving the allocation decisions to AD's, how would they solve the problem? They have made it clear they cannot solve the supply and demand issue anytime soon, which is understandable, but the allocation issue is a different matter.
Perhaps they will instruct the AD's to ignore customer spend, and allocate to people who haven't purchased a Rolex recently? Or maybe they will start saying that each individual customer can only buy one watch every 5 years or something? Or some other system to ensure that every customer gets the same opportunity to buy a watch as anyone else.
No idea really. I can't really see Rolex wanting to get involved in it all, but if they see the current AD shenanigans as being bad press, then I suppose they have to act.
I doubt they will do anything. The purchase history system means that punters buy a whole load of lady watches to push themselves up the list. Those watches would otherwise just sit around in stores.This all speculation of course, but if the speculation is correct and Rolex are worried about leaving the allocation decisions to AD's, how would they solve the problem? They have made it clear they cannot solve the supply and demand issue anytime soon, which is understandable, but the allocation issue is a different matter.
Perhaps they will instruct the AD's to ignore customer spend, and allocate to people who haven't purchased a Rolex recently? Or maybe they will start saying that each individual customer can only buy one watch every 5 years or something? Or some other system to ensure that every customer gets the same opportunity to buy a watch as anyone else.
No idea really. I can't really see Rolex wanting to get involved in it all, but if they see the current AD shenanigans as being bad press, then I suppose they have to act.
Then Rolex would have to cut supply (and profit) or risk being in a situation like other large volume manufacturers where they discount those products.
Lord Marylebone said:
Following the recent Rolex statement, several watch industry commentators have suggested that Rolex isn't happy with the way that AD's are 'allocating' the supply of watches, and Rolex worries it is harming the brand image.
This all speculation of course, but if the speculation is correct and Rolex are worried about leaving the allocation decisions to AD's, how would they solve the problem? They have made it clear they cannot solve the supply and demand issue anytime soon, which is understandable, but the allocation issue is a different matter.
Perhaps they will instruct the AD's to ignore customer spend, and allocate to people who haven't purchased a Rolex recently? Or maybe they will start saying that each individual customer can only buy one watch every 5 years or something? Or some other system to ensure that every customer gets the same opportunity to buy a watch as anyone else.
No idea really. I can't really see Rolex wanting to get involved in it all, but if they see the current AD shenanigans as being bad press, then I suppose they have to act.
I can’t remember where I saw it now, but I’m sure I read an article saying that they wanted their watches to go to a certain type of person - professionals basically. That would be quite something if they made you disclose your profession to make sure you were on the approved list! (I’ve no doubt it’s nonsense.)This all speculation of course, but if the speculation is correct and Rolex are worried about leaving the allocation decisions to AD's, how would they solve the problem? They have made it clear they cannot solve the supply and demand issue anytime soon, which is understandable, but the allocation issue is a different matter.
Perhaps they will instruct the AD's to ignore customer spend, and allocate to people who haven't purchased a Rolex recently? Or maybe they will start saying that each individual customer can only buy one watch every 5 years or something? Or some other system to ensure that every customer gets the same opportunity to buy a watch as anyone else.
No idea really. I can't really see Rolex wanting to get involved in it all, but if they see the current AD shenanigans as being bad press, then I suppose they have to act.
Lord Marylebone said:
Following the recent Rolex statement, several watch industry commentators have suggested that Rolex isn't happy with the way that AD's are 'allocating' the supply of watches, and Rolex worries it is harming the brand image.
This all speculation of course, but if the speculation is correct and Rolex are worried about leaving the allocation decisions to AD's, how would they solve the problem? They have made it clear they cannot solve the supply and demand issue anytime soon, which is understandable, but the allocation issue is a different matter.
Perhaps they will instruct the AD's to ignore customer spend, and allocate to people who haven't purchased a Rolex recently? Or maybe they will start saying that each individual customer can only buy one watch every 5 years or something? Or some other system to ensure that every customer gets the same opportunity to buy a watch as anyone else.
No idea really. I can't really see Rolex wanting to get involved in it all, but if they see the current AD shenanigans as being bad press, then I suppose they have to act.
Something is definitely broken in the Rolex supply chain. This all speculation of course, but if the speculation is correct and Rolex are worried about leaving the allocation decisions to AD's, how would they solve the problem? They have made it clear they cannot solve the supply and demand issue anytime soon, which is understandable, but the allocation issue is a different matter.
Perhaps they will instruct the AD's to ignore customer spend, and allocate to people who haven't purchased a Rolex recently? Or maybe they will start saying that each individual customer can only buy one watch every 5 years or something? Or some other system to ensure that every customer gets the same opportunity to buy a watch as anyone else.
No idea really. I can't really see Rolex wanting to get involved in it all, but if they see the current AD shenanigans as being bad press, then I suppose they have to act.
Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
eccles said:
Something is definitely broken in the Rolex supply chain.
Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
Have you asked Porsche for a build date on a GT3 recently?Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
DoubleSix said:
eccles said:
Something is definitely broken in the Rolex supply chain.
Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
Have you asked Porsche for a build date on a GT3 recently?Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
eccles said:
DoubleSix said:
eccles said:
Something is definitely broken in the Rolex supply chain.
Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
Have you asked Porsche for a build date on a GT3 recently?Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
DoubleSix said:
eccles said:
DoubleSix said:
eccles said:
Something is definitely broken in the Rolex supply chain.
Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
Have you asked Porsche for a build date on a GT3 recently?Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
I agree with your original point - but it certainly isn’t unique to Rolex.
Oh, and I wouldn’t describe a GT3 as “very niche”, you could walk in off the street and order one only a few years back…. (GT2 RS is pretty niche fwiw).
Remember, the watches everyone wants are from the ‘Professional’ range and mainly divers… so they aren’t entry level, like a GT3 isn’t entry level.
Edited by DoubleSix on Monday 27th September 17:03
Edited by DoubleSix on Monday 27th September 17:04
eccles said:
Something is definitely broken in the Rolex supply chain.
Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
I can't get a confirmed build date on a Macan S, let alone a Patek Phillipe. Whether it's the way the dealers allocate the watches or the way Rolex do it at the factory.
The fact that you can't go in and order a watch and get some sort of date, even if it's years away, for delivery is just plain bonkers. There are other high end brands and at least you can order a watch, even if it's a four year wait. The fact you can't even get a build date like you can with cars just seems a mad way to do business.
That looks like guff written by a 10 year old. Poor punctuation, swapping between pronouns and perspectives randomly, plus:
"company house"
"field team leader"
"super high demand model"
Right. If someone wrote me a covering letter on official business similar to the above, I would dismiss them as an incompetent. I imagine that the world's most famous watch company could hire a corporate communications department not staffed by infants?
"company house"
"field team leader"
"super high demand model"
Right. If someone wrote me a covering letter on official business similar to the above, I would dismiss them as an incompetent. I imagine that the world's most famous watch company could hire a corporate communications department not staffed by infants?
Edited by Harry Flashman on Tuesday 28th September 09:08
I agree with the above posts which suggest that matrix is absolutely nothing to do with Rolex, and has not originated from Rolex.
But, it is possible that a document such as that could have been produced by someone in an AD, or AD network, for use by the sales staff.
I've known sales managers and sales directors for car dealership chains who were very good at 'selling stuff' and 'overseeing others selling stuff' but could barely string a literate email together, so nothing would surprise me with regards to the spelling and errors. Being competent with spelling and grammar will never be a particularly important factor when working in sales, provided you are selling.
I'm guessing the blanked out red bits are the name of their sales/customer database that they use in that particular AD. If those bits were not blanked out it would likely be possible to identify which AD or AD chain this was.
Not saying it's definitely real, but I'm saying that it is plausible.
But, it is possible that a document such as that could have been produced by someone in an AD, or AD network, for use by the sales staff.
I've known sales managers and sales directors for car dealership chains who were very good at 'selling stuff' and 'overseeing others selling stuff' but could barely string a literate email together, so nothing would surprise me with regards to the spelling and errors. Being competent with spelling and grammar will never be a particularly important factor when working in sales, provided you are selling.
I'm guessing the blanked out red bits are the name of their sales/customer database that they use in that particular AD. If those bits were not blanked out it would likely be possible to identify which AD or AD chain this was.
Not saying it's definitely real, but I'm saying that it is plausible.
Pro Bono said:
It's far too late for that. As this thread vividly demonstrates, Rolexes have now become irrevocably tarnished with the image of the people who are now buying them at a premium and `flexing' them.
It's a great shame for those of us who have owned a Rolex for decades during which time they only attracted occasional interest from genuine watch enthusiasts. Rolex has always been a respected brand, but rather like Burberry a few years back the brand is now in serious danger of becoming an embarrassment because of its association with rappers, influencers etc.
Some truth in thisIt's a great shame for those of us who have owned a Rolex for decades during which time they only attracted occasional interest from genuine watch enthusiasts. Rolex has always been a respected brand, but rather like Burberry a few years back the brand is now in serious danger of becoming an embarrassment because of its association with rappers, influencers etc.
Lord Marylebone said:
Following the recent Rolex statement, several watch industry commentators have suggested that Rolex isn't happy with the way that AD's are 'allocating' the supply of watches, and Rolex worries it is harming the brand image.
This all speculation of course, but if the speculation is correct and Rolex are worried about leaving the allocation decisions to AD's, how would they solve the problem? They have made it clear they cannot solve the supply and demand issue anytime soon, which is understandable, but the allocation issue is a different matter.
Perhaps they will instruct the AD's to ignore customer spend, and allocate to people who haven't purchased a Rolex recently? Or maybe they will start saying that each individual customer can only buy one watch every 5 years or something? Or some other system to ensure that every customer gets the same opportunity to buy a watch as anyone else.
No idea really. I can't really see Rolex wanting to get involved in it all, but if they see the current AD shenanigans as being bad press, then I suppose they have to act.
This isnt an issue only for Rolex. Ferrari have the same problem with their limited supply models. So do Porsche. I know a chap who bought 4 new "vanilla" Ferraris from his dealer so that he could get his hands on a then newly introduced Pista. But I am far from sure that the manufacturers want to solve this sort of issue. Does it damage their image or does it simply make those without access jealous of those with access.This all speculation of course, but if the speculation is correct and Rolex are worried about leaving the allocation decisions to AD's, how would they solve the problem? They have made it clear they cannot solve the supply and demand issue anytime soon, which is understandable, but the allocation issue is a different matter.
Perhaps they will instruct the AD's to ignore customer spend, and allocate to people who haven't purchased a Rolex recently? Or maybe they will start saying that each individual customer can only buy one watch every 5 years or something? Or some other system to ensure that every customer gets the same opportunity to buy a watch as anyone else.
No idea really. I can't really see Rolex wanting to get involved in it all, but if they see the current AD shenanigans as being bad press, then I suppose they have to act.
As for the supply issue, we all know that could easily be solved. Either raise volume ( subcontract to the Chinese maybe) or jack up the price until demand equals supply. The latter is the best option with an item like a Rolex which you have to show you can afford an item like a Rolex. The raise volume route has undesireable results as Morgan have shown.
There clearly are two markets for upmarket watches. The few who really are are into mechanical watches and a much larger group of money motivated people who either want to flip or want to show they can afford a Rolex. None of eirther group are imterested in knowing the time - their phone will do that much more accurately anyway.
bordseye said:
Pro Bono said:
It's far too late for that. As this thread vividly demonstrates, Rolexes have now become irrevocably tarnished with the image of the people who are now buying them at a premium and `flexing' them.
It's a great shame for those of us who have owned a Rolex for decades during which time they only attracted occasional interest from genuine watch enthusiasts. Rolex has always been a respected brand, but rather like Burberry a few years back the brand is now in serious danger of becoming an embarrassment because of its association with rappers, influencers etc.
Some truth in thisIt's a great shame for those of us who have owned a Rolex for decades during which time they only attracted occasional interest from genuine watch enthusiasts. Rolex has always been a respected brand, but rather like Burberry a few years back the brand is now in serious danger of becoming an embarrassment because of its association with rappers, influencers etc.
There are some reasonable, normal Rolex owners out there, but good grief they're thinly diluted now.
bordseye said:
This isnt an issue only for Rolex. Ferrari have the same problem with their limited supply models. So do Porsche. I know a chap who bought 4 new "vanilla" Ferraris from his dealer so that he could get his hands on a then newly introduced Pista. But I am far from sure that the manufacturers want to solve this sort of issue. Does it damage their image or does it simply make those without access jealous of those with access.
As for the supply issue, we all know that could easily be solved. Either raise volume ( subcontract to the Chinese maybe) or jack up the price until demand equals supply. The latter is the best option with an item like a Rolex which you have to show you can afford an item like a Rolex. The raise volume route has undesireable results as Morgan have shown.
There clearly are two markets for upmarket watches. The few who really are are into mechanical watches and a much larger group of money motivated people who either want to flip or want to show they can afford a Rolex. None of eirther group are imterested in knowing the time - their phone will do that much more accurately anyway.
We have talked about all this quite a lot in this thread over the past year or so, and the consensus is that Rolex cannot easily solve the supply issue.As for the supply issue, we all know that could easily be solved. Either raise volume ( subcontract to the Chinese maybe) or jack up the price until demand equals supply. The latter is the best option with an item like a Rolex which you have to show you can afford an item like a Rolex. The raise volume route has undesireable results as Morgan have shown.
There clearly are two markets for upmarket watches. The few who really are are into mechanical watches and a much larger group of money motivated people who either want to flip or want to show they can afford a Rolex. None of eirther group are imterested in knowing the time - their phone will do that much more accurately anyway.
They absolutely cannot subcontract out the building of watches as most people would be outraged and it would damage their reputation. Can you imagine spending £8k or whatever to buy a Chinese made Rolex? Never going to happen. The 'made in Switzerland' bit is extremely important.
Their Swiss factories are flat out, and I imagine building an additional watchmaking facility complete with another couple of thousand skilled and time-served technicians/watchmakers isn't something you can do in a hurry. They already have 4 Swiss factories producing nearly 1 million watches per year, so I think it is a little unrealistic to expect them to start building a new factory as soon as there is a demand boom.
If demand dropped, they wouldn't want to have an extra factory sat empty.
Increasing prices is something they have done steadily for years, and again, I doubt they will want to go too far with that in case demand does tail off and they are left with watches for sale that are too expensive.
(unless of course they are positioning Rolex to be a super-premium brand starting at £10k minimum and letting Tudor completely take over the £3-10k end of things. But that is another debate)
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