Discussion
Jayho said:
I've played with a few homage type watches in the past and will never buy a fake or even homage now. End of the day, spending £500 on a fake, at the end of the day you've spent / wasted £500. If you buy a genuine watch Rolex / Omega etc, end of the day you pay £5000 and probably still be able to sell it for £5000.
^ThisAlthough there is a second hand market for fakes, they're never going to appreciate or hold their value.
It's quite simple to sum up why people buy a fake, especially the 1:1 high end ones.
They want to decieve without splashing the cash.
It's nothing to do whether the wearer can afford the real deal or not.
The person who buys a high end 1:1 fake has only one goal. To be able to flex without the expense of buying a real one.
This could be the fact that they cannot afford a real one or that they value the real one they have too much and thus buy a 1:1 for daily wear.
Whichever way, you are trying to fool anyone who sees your 1:1 as the real thing.
They want to decieve without splashing the cash.
It's nothing to do whether the wearer can afford the real deal or not.
The person who buys a high end 1:1 fake has only one goal. To be able to flex without the expense of buying a real one.
This could be the fact that they cannot afford a real one or that they value the real one they have too much and thus buy a 1:1 for daily wear.
Whichever way, you are trying to fool anyone who sees your 1:1 as the real thing.
Ninjin said:
It's quite simple to sum up why people buy a fake, especially the 1:1 high end ones.
They want to decieve without splashing the cash.
It's nothing to do whether the wearer can afford the real deal or not.
The person who buys a high end 1:1 fake has only one goal. To be able to flex without the expense of buying a real one.
This could be the fact that they cannot afford a real one or that they value the real one they have too much and thus buy a 1:1 for daily wear.
Whichever way, you are trying to fool anyone who sees your 1:1 as the real thing.
So you're second sentence says the exact opposite of your first two ??They want to decieve without splashing the cash.
It's nothing to do whether the wearer can afford the real deal or not.
The person who buys a high end 1:1 fake has only one goal. To be able to flex without the expense of buying a real one.
This could be the fact that they cannot afford a real one or that they value the real one they have too much and thus buy a 1:1 for daily wear.
Whichever way, you are trying to fool anyone who sees your 1:1 as the real thing.
FWIW said:
Tomo1971 said:
Maybe people who pay for a Genuine Rolex are erm....odd...... (IMO) ;-)
It’s an interesting question. I have a selection of fakes, cost on average around £70 each I guess. They look OK but they’re a bit crap. So I’ve lost about £400 on fakes.
A few years ago I spent an extravagant £6.5k on a Rolex...very odd, as you say.
Which purchase would you say was the least ‘odd’, and why?
Edited by FWIW on Sunday 26th January 15:27
I buy a Rolex because I like the watch, I like the history of the watch and the history of the brand and the design and the mechanical nature of the watch and the history of the movement. it makes me feel good wearing it. A fake only really meets the looks good requirement and maybe the mechanical aspect.
It would make me feel bad wearing a fake though, so I simply wouldn’t enjoy the experience.
If you want to wear a Rolex just to show off or just because you like the look of the watch then I suppose a fake meets both requirements for a fraction of the price.
To me though, arguing why it’s ok to wear fakes is like saying why tell the truth or why have manners or why treat people like you want to be treated, it just seems wrong to me in my world view and dishonest somehow. Like the person wearing the fake is being false.
Obviously we’re all different though.
Stories like this are why I like the Rolex brand.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/on-the-block-rol...
Similarly with the story of the omega speedmaster and the moon connection
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/understanding-th...
Or the history and links between Rolex GMTs and aviation
https://www.qpmagazine.com/long-reads/a27387734/ro...
And so on
Fakes don’t really give me that sense of connection that you get from iconic watches with great history at all.
Plus also I buy a watch to leave for my kids so fakes aren’t going to be that great as a connection between generations and loved ones. Similarly I’ve got some lovely watches from my dad, would I cherish a fake submariner as much? Possibly if he wore it but it’s not really the same. To think a loved one worked hard and bought a great watch and cherished it and passed it on to a loved one to enjoy is part of the attraction of watches. A fake that someone bought to con people isn’t going to ever have that same appeal.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 27th January 23:16
El stovey said:
It depends entirely on why you’re buying the watches.
I buy a Rolex because I like the watch, I like the history of the watch and the history of the brand and the design and the mechanical nature of the watch and the history of the movement. it makes me feel good wearing it. A fake only really meets the looks good requirement and maybe the mechanical aspect.
It would make me feel bad wearing a fake though, so I simply wouldn’t enjoy the experience.
If you want to wear a Rolex just to show off or just because you like the look of the watch then I suppose a fake meets both requirements for a fraction of the price.
To me though, arguing why it’s ok to wear fakes is like saying why tell the truth or why have manners or why treat people like you want to be treated, it just seems wrong to me in my world view and dishonest somehow. Like the person wearing the fake is being false.
Obviously we’re all different though.
Stories like this are why I like the Rolex brand.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/on-the-block-rol...
Similarly with the story of the omega speedmaster and the moon connection
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/understanding-th...
Or the history and links between Rolex GMTs and aviation
https://www.qpmagazine.com/long-reads/a27387734/ro...
And so on
Fakes don’t really give me that sense of connection that you get from iconic watches with great history at all.
Plus also I buy a watch to leave for my kids so fakes aren’t going to be that great as a connection between generations and loved ones. Similarly I’ve got some lovely watches from my dad, would I cherish a fake submariner as much? Possibly if he wore it but it’s not really the same. To think a loved one worked hard and bought a great watch and cherished it and passed it on to a loved one to enjoy is part of the attraction of watches. A fake that someone bought to con people isn’t going to ever have that same appeal.
Haha! It’s a brilliantly emotive subject and I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I buy a Rolex because I like the watch, I like the history of the watch and the history of the brand and the design and the mechanical nature of the watch and the history of the movement. it makes me feel good wearing it. A fake only really meets the looks good requirement and maybe the mechanical aspect.
It would make me feel bad wearing a fake though, so I simply wouldn’t enjoy the experience.
If you want to wear a Rolex just to show off or just because you like the look of the watch then I suppose a fake meets both requirements for a fraction of the price.
To me though, arguing why it’s ok to wear fakes is like saying why tell the truth or why have manners or why treat people like you want to be treated, it just seems wrong to me in my world view and dishonest somehow. Like the person wearing the fake is being false.
Obviously we’re all different though.
Stories like this are why I like the Rolex brand.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/on-the-block-rol...
Similarly with the story of the omega speedmaster and the moon connection
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/understanding-th...
Or the history and links between Rolex GMTs and aviation
https://www.qpmagazine.com/long-reads/a27387734/ro...
And so on
Fakes don’t really give me that sense of connection that you get from iconic watches with great history at all.
Plus also I buy a watch to leave for my kids so fakes aren’t going to be that great as a connection between generations and loved ones. Similarly I’ve got some lovely watches from my dad, would I cherish a fake submariner as much? Possibly if he wore it but it’s not really the same. To think a loved one worked hard and bought a great watch and cherished it and passed it on to a loved one to enjoy is part of the attraction of watches. A fake that someone bought to con people isn’t going to ever have that same appeal.
Edited by El stovey on Monday 27th January 23:16
But most of the above is marketing b
ks, product placement, or extremely tenuous links to interesting events. How much do Rolex spend on marketing? f
king stloads. And some. Fair play to them, but surely we see should it for what it is. Who’s the mug? Well, I guess it depends on the criteria, but I don’t think there’s any need to get all sanctimonious about It (as ‘gen’ buyers tend to). At least on a face value level (organised crime connections are another matter).
Anyway, you get the gist.
El stovey said:
If you want to wear a Rolex just to show off or just because you like the look of the watch then I suppose a fake meets both requirements for a fraction of the price.
I think that is the crux of it. If the fake is perfect or it takes a very qualified and expert person to identify it as such, then for all practical purposes the fake wearer can confidently wear it in any company including people with expensive watches. They will ever know. Thus the fake wearer is protected from discovery.However, it is still a fake.
The only issue is brand damage. Say Rolex produces a very limited edition, and a superb fake is produced in significant quantities. There is a bit less satisfaction for the wearer of the real thing. He meets fake wearer and they compare them.. no difference noted. Fake wearer is relieved, genuine wearer is surprised that he has come across a comparable watch so quickly.. and of course Mr Fake says it was a gift from his wife, so no supplier details are available.
Thus the fake worked.
I agree with you that the feeling of a genuine article is for yourself and not for anyone else, and I would never buy a fake. I understand it though.
Like James Stunt's art collection, you can fool a lot of people for a long time.
Brads67 said:
Ninjin said:
It's quite simple to sum up why people buy a fake, especially the 1:1 high end ones.
They want to decieve without splashing the cash.
It's nothing to do whether the wearer can afford the real deal or not.
The person who buys a high end 1:1 fake has only one goal. To be able to flex without the expense of buying a real one.
This could be the fact that they cannot afford a real one or that they value the real one they have too much and thus buy a 1:1 for daily wear.
Whichever way, you are trying to fool anyone who sees your 1:1 as the real thing.
So you're second sentence says the exact opposite of your first two ??They want to decieve without splashing the cash.
It's nothing to do whether the wearer can afford the real deal or not.
The person who buys a high end 1:1 fake has only one goal. To be able to flex without the expense of buying a real one.
This could be the fact that they cannot afford a real one or that they value the real one they have too much and thus buy a 1:1 for daily wear.
Whichever way, you are trying to fool anyone who sees your 1:1 as the real thing.
Anyone who wears a high end 1:1 fake is looking to deceive. This could be because they can't afford the real one, can't justify the price of a real one or have a real one but don't want to wear it, due to the value of it and thus buy a 1:1 to wear instead, keeping the real one stored somewhere.
Bottom line, spending £500 on a 1:1 is for only 1 purpose and that's deception.
On the opposite end of the spectrum:
Anyone who spends £30 in Costa del Sol,Bangkok, HK etc (you get the idea) on a fake is buying not to deiceve, as they are so bad that you could see a mile away. With these type of purchases you'll usually say to you mates, " look at the Rolex I bought for £30 on hols", either you'll all have a good laugh at how bad it is, or for the ones that aren't WIS, say how good it is and people are crazy to buy a real one for £5k when you can get a fake for £30.
I was in my Rolex AD last summer and a youngish lad in cheap bad fitting suit came in brandishing a Rolex. I could tell a mile off it was a fake. He had come in because the bracelet was damaged and wanted to get it repaired.
When the AD said sorry, we can't repair fake Rolex nor would we have the parts, he was stunned. He genuinely thought what he was wearing was real. Maybe that's why he put on a suit, just to come into the Rolex store. He sure didn't look comfortable in it.
Edited by Ninjin on Tuesday 28th January 00:27
Brads67 said:
So you're second sentence says the exact opposite of your first two ??
Yeh sorry about that I meant the 5th says the opposite of the first 3
Just up after a nightshift sleep lol.
You say its not about affording one, then say it is, then state it's because they don't want to pay for one then say they already have but don't want to wear it and wear an expensive fake instead.
If someone can't afford a real Rolex then if they wear an expensive fake then so what ? I wouldn't wear one but that's me, I've no issue with someone wanting one but struggling to afford the (quite frankly ludicrous ) price of an original.
Anyone wearing a fake to save the real one is a fud, I see no point in that at all. Not really a "deceiver" are they though , cause the real one will be on the wrist next time.
Brads67 said:
Yeh sorry about that
I meant the 5th says the opposite of the first 3
Just up after a nightshift sleep lol.
You say its not about affording one, then say it is, then state it's because they don't want to pay for one then say they already have but don't want to wear it and wear an expensive fake instead.
If someone can't afford a real Rolex then if they wear an expensive fake then so what ? I wouldn't wear one but that's me, I've no issue with someone wanting one but struggling to afford the (quite frankly ludicrous ) price of an original.
Anyone wearing a fake to save the real one is a fud, I see no point in that at all. Not really a "deceiver" are they though , cause the real one will be on the wrist next time.
My point is, a 1:1 fake is only to decieve. Lots of reasons to do it but what you are wearing is not the 'real' thing and thus a deception.I meant the 5th says the opposite of the first 3
Just up after a nightshift sleep lol.
You say its not about affording one, then say it is, then state it's because they don't want to pay for one then say they already have but don't want to wear it and wear an expensive fake instead.
If someone can't afford a real Rolex then if they wear an expensive fake then so what ? I wouldn't wear one but that's me, I've no issue with someone wanting one but struggling to afford the (quite frankly ludicrous ) price of an original.
Anyone wearing a fake to save the real one is a fud, I see no point in that at all. Not really a "deceiver" are they though , cause the real one will be on the wrist next time.
FWIW said:
Haha! It’s a brilliantly emotive subject and I don’t necessarily disagree with you.
But most of the above is marketing bks, product placement, or extremely tenuous links to interesting events.
How much do Rolex spend on marketing? fking stloads. And some. Fair play to them, but surely we see should it for what it is.
Who’s the mug? Well, I guess it depends on the criteria, but I don’t think there’s any need to get all sanctimonious about It (as ‘gen’ buyers tend to). At least on a face value level (organised crime connections are another matter).
Anyway, you get the gist.
What of the above is marketing bBut most of the above is marketing b
ks, product placement, or extremely tenuous links to interesting events. How much do Rolex spend on marketing? f
king stloads. And some. Fair play to them, but surely we see should it for what it is. Who’s the mug? Well, I guess it depends on the criteria, but I don’t think there’s any need to get all sanctimonious about It (as ‘gen’ buyers tend to). At least on a face value level (organised crime connections are another matter).
Anyway, you get the gist.
ks or product placement? Many of these iconic watches have a proud history because they were chosen and selected by professionals and organisations because of their quality or the features or complications etc. As I said, people have many different reasons to be attracted to watches. The history of a model or brand isn’t all “marketing b
ks”I like pilots’ watches and ones linked to aerospace because it’s my job and I’m interested in it. A watch like a Rolex gmt is inextricably linked to aviation. Some of these companies like Breitling made instruments for aircraft and watches issued to pilots at various points in time, I don’t particularly like watches with a fake history or worse a fake watch. That to me is partly why a fake is not something I want to wear.
Others obviously have no interest whatsoever in the history of a brand or iconic model of watch, the design and design language and how it’s all evolved and the engineering and the movement etc, we’re all different.
Plus also, if everyone bought fakes instead of the genuine products, nobody would be making nice watches anymore.
I’m not going to get upset if someone wears a fake copy of a watch I own or am wearing, it doesn’t affect my enjoyment of it as I (hopefully) don’t see it as a status symbol, but let’s be honest, the main reason for wearing a fake, is for people trying to show off and to pretend they have earned something that shows their wealth. It’s not only that they’re materialistic and victims of consumerism, it’s that they’re wanting to look well off but are also lying about how well off they are.
You can’t be surprised though that fake watches get a negative reception on a watch forum.
El stovey said:
What of the above is marketing bks or product placement? Many of these iconic watches have a proud history because they were chosen and selected by professionals and organisations because of their quality or the features or complications etc.
As I said, people have many different reasons to be attracted to watches. The history of a model or brand isn’t all “marketing bks”
I like pilots’ watches and ones linked to aerospace because it’s my job and I’m interested in it. A watch like a Rolex gmt is inextricably linked to aviation. Some of these companies like Breitling made instruments for aircraft and watches issued to pilots at various points in time, I don’t particularly like watches with a fake history or worse a fake watch. That to me is partly why a fake is not something I want to wear.
Others obviously have no interest whatsoever in the history of a brand or iconic model of watch, the design and design language and how it’s all evolved and the engineering and the movement etc, we’re all different.
Plus also, if everyone bought fakes instead of the genuine products, nobody would be making nice watches anymore.
I’m not going to get upset if someone wears a fake copy of a watch I own or am wearing, it doesn’t affect my enjoyment of it as I (hopefully) don’t see it as a status symbol, but let’s be honest, the main reason for wearing a fake, is for people trying to show off and to pretend they have earned something that shows their wealth. It’s not only that they’re materialistic and victims of consumerism, it’s that they’re wanting to look well off but are also lying about how well off they are.
You can’t be surprised though that fake watches get a negative reception on a watch forum.
Brilliant! Exactly what I've been trying to say but much better written than my efforts!ks or product placement? Many of these iconic watches have a proud history because they were chosen and selected by professionals and organisations because of their quality or the features or complications etc. As I said, people have many different reasons to be attracted to watches. The history of a model or brand isn’t all “marketing b
ks”I like pilots’ watches and ones linked to aerospace because it’s my job and I’m interested in it. A watch like a Rolex gmt is inextricably linked to aviation. Some of these companies like Breitling made instruments for aircraft and watches issued to pilots at various points in time, I don’t particularly like watches with a fake history or worse a fake watch. That to me is partly why a fake is not something I want to wear.
Others obviously have no interest whatsoever in the history of a brand or iconic model of watch, the design and design language and how it’s all evolved and the engineering and the movement etc, we’re all different.
Plus also, if everyone bought fakes instead of the genuine products, nobody would be making nice watches anymore.
I’m not going to get upset if someone wears a fake copy of a watch I own or am wearing, it doesn’t affect my enjoyment of it as I (hopefully) don’t see it as a status symbol, but let’s be honest, the main reason for wearing a fake, is for people trying to show off and to pretend they have earned something that shows their wealth. It’s not only that they’re materialistic and victims of consumerism, it’s that they’re wanting to look well off but are also lying about how well off they are.
You can’t be surprised though that fake watches get a negative reception on a watch forum.
I've not long been interested in watches so I've not had the time to bed down into some of the strong opinions the fake / homage debate always brings.
I think like anything where large sums can be spent, there's the danger of snobbery and that's definitely there to some extent. There are some people who can afford to spend £50k on a Nautilus and want to make damn sure that people see what they have and how rich they are. The prevalence of fakes and homage pieces dilutes this message and I'm sure that some of the fury is driven by this sort of thing. You're not going to be admired so much if people think it's not real.
Barring some earth-changing good fortune, I am never going to be able to afford a £50k nautilus, and I'm not going to be in a position where I ever have even £15k to spend and not have several things more deserving to spend it on than a watch. There's bound to be stuff needed round the house, a car upgrading, savings, that sort of thing.
I'm not ashamed of this, it's the case for 99% of the population so what's the point in pretending it's not for me too. That, for me, is what a fake does, it's a tool that helps people to pretend to be someone they're not.
A homage on the other hand is a different story - it makes the design more accessible (and lets face it, most watch designs lean heavily on previous watches anyway). There's snobbery here too in a lot of watch forums - why is a Steinhart GMT ok but a Parnis GMT not - they look virtually identical.
I do feel a bit uncomfortable with a very close homage - think a sterile dialled, otherwise virtually perfect replica, but since I've got into modifying watches I can play around a bit and make my own watches that are unique - these give me more satisfaction than buying a 10 years old no date sub ever could.
In short, if you have the money and want it - well done, pull the trigger and enjoy the wrist time in good health. If not, don't pretend, find something you can afford, enjoy it and stop comparing yourself to others. That way lies misery.
I think like anything where large sums can be spent, there's the danger of snobbery and that's definitely there to some extent. There are some people who can afford to spend £50k on a Nautilus and want to make damn sure that people see what they have and how rich they are. The prevalence of fakes and homage pieces dilutes this message and I'm sure that some of the fury is driven by this sort of thing. You're not going to be admired so much if people think it's not real.
Barring some earth-changing good fortune, I am never going to be able to afford a £50k nautilus, and I'm not going to be in a position where I ever have even £15k to spend and not have several things more deserving to spend it on than a watch. There's bound to be stuff needed round the house, a car upgrading, savings, that sort of thing.
I'm not ashamed of this, it's the case for 99% of the population so what's the point in pretending it's not for me too. That, for me, is what a fake does, it's a tool that helps people to pretend to be someone they're not.
A homage on the other hand is a different story - it makes the design more accessible (and lets face it, most watch designs lean heavily on previous watches anyway). There's snobbery here too in a lot of watch forums - why is a Steinhart GMT ok but a Parnis GMT not - they look virtually identical.
I do feel a bit uncomfortable with a very close homage - think a sterile dialled, otherwise virtually perfect replica, but since I've got into modifying watches I can play around a bit and make my own watches that are unique - these give me more satisfaction than buying a 10 years old no date sub ever could.
In short, if you have the money and want it - well done, pull the trigger and enjoy the wrist time in good health. If not, don't pretend, find something you can afford, enjoy it and stop comparing yourself to others. That way lies misery.
Ninjin said:
My point is, a 1:1 fake is only to decieve. Lots of reasons to do it but what you are wearing is not the 'real' thing and thus a deception.
What if no one else ever sees it?If you love the style and design of a Rol... sorry, bad example, the style and design of a Blancpain and just want a 3D example of the design to look at occasionally ?
If you never wear it outside your home, no one else will ever be impressed by it.
BOR said:
What if no one else ever sees it?
If you love the style and design of a Rol... sorry, bad example, the style and design of a Blancpain and just want a 3D example of the design to look at occasionally ?
If you never wear it outside your home, no one else will ever be impressed by it.
Like buying a full scale model of something as an ornament? If you love the style and design of a Rol... sorry, bad example, the style and design of a Blancpain and just want a 3D example of the design to look at occasionally ?
If you never wear it outside your home, no one else will ever be impressed by it.
Tbh I doubt many people buy fake watches just because they liked the design and want to appreciate it at home.
BOR said:
Ninjin said:
My point is, a 1:1 fake is only to decieve. Lots of reasons to do it but what you are wearing is not the 'real' thing and thus a deception.
What if no one else ever sees it?If you love the style and design of a Rol... sorry, bad example, the style and design of a Blancpain and just want a 3D example of the design to look at occasionally ?
If you never wear it outside your home, no one else will ever be impressed by it.
The fake is in a drawer somewhere - I genuinely don't know where.
NDA said:
I own a fake/counterfeit Patek. I bought it because I could not try on the real thing and I was considering buying one. I didn't leave the house wearing it and did end up buying a real one.
The fake is in a drawer somewhere - I genuinely don't know where.
What if you’ve muddled them up? The fake is in a drawer somewhere - I genuinely don't know where.
i have a 1:1 patek 5711. cost a few hundred and its very very close to the original, you wouldnt be able to tell unless you had both in your hands.
i got it because i wanted to see if i liked it before splashing out, and i now wear it as a daily basher if i get bored of wearing something else.
i got it because i wanted to see if i liked it before splashing out, and i now wear it as a daily basher if i get bored of wearing something else.
Gassing Station | Watches | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff