ordering a daytona
Discussion
taffyracer said:
that's the problem, I want new and don't want to pay upto 45% more
Supply & demand plus an unhealthy amount of 'clubbiness' means that's not possible. And after a lot of insistence and research you do find a Daytona at list price as a 'favour' from a non-authorised dealer - be wary as hell, because Rolex are the most copied watch on the planet and there are some absolutely excellent replicas available.When I say 'excellent' I mean just that - they use a similar grade of stainless steel, the bracelets on some replicas are good enough that I've read some genuine watch owners on the TZ forums reckon they'd buy the watch just for the bracelet as a spare (!!), and whilst the movement will quite obviously not be a genuine Rolex movement (or a Zenith for the older Daytonas), Seiko make damn good movements for the 'Japanese' replicas, and of course ETA flog the Valjoux 7750 to everyone else for their chronographs. Obviously a £200 'replica' Daytona will be easily recognisable as a fake, but for some bizarre reason (which I don't understand - I can understand the owner of a £100,000 Patek who loves the style of the watch to have a very good replica to wear in cases when the watch may be damaged, or stolen, but surely such people have a collection of other quality watches?) there are £1000 replica Daytonas out there that are absolutely indistinguishable from the real thing until you take the back off and have a good poke around. And as we all know, the steel Daytona has a solid back and most Rolex owners don't have the tool to get the back off to have a shifty at the movement at home for a laugh.
Funnily, there are some that claim that the best Daytona replicas keep better time than the current real thing because they reckon a well 'tuned' Valjoux 7750 keeps better time than the 116520 Rolex
(they're just El Primero fanboys, I think)The reason I'm mentioning this is because the steel Daytona is the perfect watch for a scam. There is massive demand, and quite a large amount of this demand is not from watch-nut enthusiasts who can spot all the genuine variations like trainspotters, but people who want the watch for its status and rarity. And I don't think much of Rolex's policy of restricting supply and the 'golf club' type situation where you have to be good mates with the Rolex agent, or have to already be a 'good customer' (i.e. have already spent a hell of a lot of money) at a jeweller's to get bumped up the queue when the Daytona does finally arrive.
As a result, if you produce an absolutely top-notch replica, with a 7750 movement and made from the same steel, even if it costs £1000 to make you'll make a massive profit by selling to those who want one NOW. I'm not condoning this, it goes against all my morals, but Rolex have brought it upon themselves.
Therefore, if you want a steel Daytona now, you have to take a chance with the watch dealer you buy from. It goes without saying that reputation is paramount, and they can take the piss with their prices as a result.
I sound a tad bitter here - I'm not, I'm just more aware of the bulls
t now. I wanted a steel Daytona since I became aware of cool watches in my teens. I ended up in the same situation - no golf club watch dealer mates, no authorised dealer (and I went into about 20 shops in different parts of the country from Somerset, Wales, London, Kent, Lincolnshire and Oxfordshire) would put me on their 'waiting list', the duty free shop at Geneva Airport were very nice guys but also wouldn't put me on the list (I'm only ever at Geneva airport in scruffy ski gear though, but I think I was wearing an Explorer II at the time I asked). The only option was buying from an indie dealer - at a massive markup. And I was concerned about fakes - I was inexperienced at the time and could easily have been fobbed off.As a result I went with David Duggan hoping that the reputation would ensure me a proper watch. It did, but I paid £7500 for the privilege (back in 2002).
I don't think the situation has changed much since then (other than the average price being £6500 or so).
But hell, I loved that watch and only sold it last year because I had to. I'm not buying another one though.
They do seem to turn up quickly when you 'know someone'. Friend of mine does a lot of business with a jeweller who is an AD for Rolex, I asked if he could do me a favour and ask him to put me on the wait list.. was expecting a couple of years min if at all - 4 weeks later I was told I could collect it from him.
EK993 said:
They do seem to turn up quickly when you 'know someone'. Friend of mine does a lot of business with a jeweller who is an AD for Rolex, I asked if he could do me a favour and ask him to put me on the wait list.. was expecting a couple of years min if at all - 4 weeks later I was told I could collect it from him.
Would you be prepared to share the identity of the dealer with me? If so PM mecyberface said:
As a result, if you produce an absolutely top-notch replica, with a 7750 movement and made from the same steel,
Will an ETA/valjoux 7750 fit inside a Daytona case? Every 7750 watch i've seen has been quite large and very thick.I know the more expensive fake Rolex often have ETA movements but I'd be surprised if a 7750 would be used due to it's size.
wargriff said:
if you are after a daytona steel, michael spiers in plymouth devon have a new one in the window, saw it yesterday.
give them a call
They're quite good for putting stuff in the windown. Their Truro shop has two Daytonas, a green sub, a normal sub, a sea dweller...etc. One of their guys told me they didn't take lists on stuff, everything went in the window.give them a call
El stovey said:
cyberface said:
As a result, if you produce an absolutely top-notch replica, with a 7750 movement and made from the same steel,
Will an ETA/valjoux 7750 fit inside a Daytona case? Every 7750 watch i've seen has been quite large and very thick.I know the more expensive fake Rolex often have ETA movements but I'd be surprised if a 7750 would be used due to it's size.
And this is one of the 'best' replicas I've seen (on the web, I haven't knowingly browsed fakes in watch shops - but there are some startlingly accurate replicas on the web... of course what picture was used, and what actual watch you receive after sending money, is a lottery with grey-market internet dealers...) - the replica watch is a steel / gold Daytona, and these guys show pics of the movements, which don't seem to be photoshopped (perhaps an expert here could tell?)
There are obvious differences here, such as the central bearing finish and the polished fine rate regulator on the ETA version, but the replica isn't a 7750, either I'm a moron with non-functional eyes, or it's a damn good copy of a 7750. So not only do we have fake Rolexes, we have fake movements too...
Now whether this is a copied 7750 that's scaled down a touch to fit in the 'Rolex' case (which doesn't sound feasible), or whether the 'Rolex' case is bigger than a real Daytona, I don't know. What I do know is that this replica supplier says his Daytonas are 40mm diameter and 17mm thick. The (assumed) genuine one I sold last year didn't feel that thick, but I can't tell really. What I did think was that the Daytona was meant to be a 38mm watch, then again my Sinn is meant to have a 7750 and that's 38mm (measured just now) - so the 7750 should fit in the case OK.
What is definitely true is that photo of the replica Rolex isn't a pic of a real one, to scam potential buyers into thinking the watch is a 'perfect replica' - since Rolex has never put the 7750 in a Daytona
The 7750 was designed specifically to be inexpensive and economical to build, requiring less precision in manufacture according to the Timezone article about it - so it's perhaps not surprising that the copyists, needing a chronograph movement to put in their replicas, copied the 7750. Its ubiquity ensures that such replica watches are even serviceable by any watchmaker who doesn't have an ethical problem with working on counterfeit pieces.The only fake watches I've come into contact with were rubbish - quite clearly bogus from just a close look. Having been spurred into doing a bit of internet research about it - it's obvious that plenty of the 'real' Rolexes I've seen may have been fakes, because there are some pretty amazing fakes out there.
The 7750 'feels' different to operate (chronograph pushers) than the 116520 Rolex chronograph pushers, though you'd need both side by side to tell. I have no experience of the El Primero movement Daytona so can't comment on that, but I'd expect that to 'feel' different as well.
What I *DO* know now is that if I was buying a Daytona from a non-AD, I'd have no chance of telling a really good fake without taking the back off!
Great post cyberface.
It wasn't the width of the 7750 I thought was the problem but the thickness but you have a photo of a 'Daytona' with a 7750 so it must fit.
I wonder why other 7750 watches like the Navitimer and many Sinn's like the 756
seem so thick.(In fact looking into it i've seen all these 7750 watches are about 14mm like a Daytona)
BTW I'm liking the schwartz 756s with red hands, do you think that's a Sinn mod or something the owner did.
It wasn't the width of the 7750 I thought was the problem but the thickness but you have a photo of a 'Daytona' with a 7750 so it must fit.
I wonder why other 7750 watches like the Navitimer and many Sinn's like the 756
seem so thick.(In fact looking into it i've seen all these 7750 watches are about 14mm like a Daytona)
BTW I'm liking the schwartz 756s with red hands, do you think that's a Sinn mod or something the owner did.
Murph7355 said:
El stovey said:
...
BTW I'm liking the schwartz 756s with red hands, ...
Me too.BTW I'm liking the schwartz 756s with red hands, ...
I found out that Sinn can do it for you when you buy the watch from them. Apparently all sorts of stuff like this is possible.
I got some contact details if anyone wants to find out about it.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 2nd May 08:02
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