I'm a happy boy!
Discussion
ShadownINja said:
To be fair, aren't the likes of Seiko, Citizen and Rotary copying the big name brands with their diving and chronograph watches?
Interesting you say this - the Hamilton Jazzmaster Valjoux 7750 Chronograph is regarded as and sold used as 'the nearest thing to an IWC Portuguese for a third of the price'. There's also a Precista which bears more than a passing resemblence to a Radomir but people seem to forget these...Incidently - the Precista is next on my list. I guess I won't be posting about it on here though
Cheers
DC
Edited by Dai Capp on Tuesday 3rd February 11:42
Dai Capp said:
ShadownINja said:
To be fair, aren't the likes of Seiko, Citizen and Rotary copying the big name brands with their diving and chronograph watches?
Interesting you say this - the Hamilton Jazzmaster Valjoux 7750 Chronograph is regarded as and sold used as 'the nearest thing to an IWC Portuguese for a third of the price'. There's also a Precista which bears more than a passing resemblence to a Radomir but people seem to forget these...Incidently - the Precista is next on my list. I guess I won't be posting about it on here though
Cheers
DC
Edited by Dai Capp on Tuesday 3rd February 11:42
in what way is the Hamilton analogous to an IWC Portuguese?
Dai Capp said:
Interesting you say this - the Hamilton Jazzmaster Valjoux 7750 Chronograph is regarded as and sold used as 'the nearest thing to an IWC Portuguese for a third of the price'. There's also a Precista which bears more than a passing resemblence to a Radomir but people seem to forget these...
That's because it's completely different. They aren't watches that are made with exactly the same case and hands, numerals subdial etc.They are just watches that look like another watch.
whoami said:
Dai Capp said:
ShadownINja said:
To be fair, aren't the likes of Seiko, Citizen and Rotary copying the big name brands with their diving and chronograph watches?
Interesting you say this - the Hamilton Jazzmaster Valjoux 7750 Chronograph is regarded as and sold used as 'the nearest thing to an IWC Portuguese for a third of the price'. There's also a Precista which bears more than a passing resemblence to a Radomir but people seem to forget these...Incidently - the Precista is next on my list. I guess I won't be posting about it on here though
Cheers
DC
Edited by Dai Capp on Tuesday 3rd February 11:42
in what way is the Hamilton analogous to an IWC Portuguese?
At the end of the day though the original post was 'here's my new watch/strap combination, I like it what do others think'. You've already said you don't like it in a constructive way and that's all cool but to see how the rest of the thread has degenerated into a frankly pointless debate about what constitutes a copy/hommage/fake is somewhat disappointing.
Edited by Dai Capp on Tuesday 3rd February 12:52
el stovey said:
Dai Capp said:
Interesting you say this - the Hamilton Jazzmaster Valjoux 7750 Chronograph is regarded as and sold used as 'the nearest thing to an IWC Portuguese for a third of the price'. There's also a Precista which bears more than a passing resemblence to a Radomir but people seem to forget these...
That's because it's completely different. They aren't watches that are made with exactly the same case and hands, numerals subdial etc.They are just watches that look like another watch.
Listen to yourself.
Dai Capp said:
whoami said:
Dai Capp said:
ShadownINja said:
To be fair, aren't the likes of Seiko, Citizen and Rotary copying the big name brands with their diving and chronograph watches?
Interesting you say this - the Hamilton Jazzmaster Valjoux 7750 Chronograph is regarded as and sold used as 'the nearest thing to an IWC Portuguese for a third of the price'. There's also a Precista which bears more than a passing resemblence to a Radomir but people seem to forget these...Incidently - the Precista is next on my list. I guess I won't be posting about it on here though
Cheers
DC
Edited by Dai Capp on Tuesday 3rd February 11:42
in what way is the Hamilton analogous to an IWC Portuguese?
At the end of the day though the original post was 'here's my new watch/strap combination, I like it what do others think'. You've already said you don't like it in a constructive way and that's all cool but to see how the rest thread has degenerated into a frankly pointless debate about what constitues a copy/hommage/fake is somewhat disappointing.
I was genuinley interested in the Hamilton comparison. I have an IWC Portuguese and couldn't for the life of me see where the similarities lie. I'm glad you are not convinced either as I thought I was going mad.
whoami said:
Dai Capp said:
whoami said:
Dai Capp said:
ShadownINja said:
To be fair, aren't the likes of Seiko, Citizen and Rotary copying the big name brands with their diving and chronograph watches?
Interesting you say this - the Hamilton Jazzmaster Valjoux 7750 Chronograph is regarded as and sold used as 'the nearest thing to an IWC Portuguese for a third of the price'. There's also a Precista which bears more than a passing resemblence to a Radomir but people seem to forget these...Incidently - the Precista is next on my list. I guess I won't be posting about it on here though
Cheers
DC
Edited by Dai Capp on Tuesday 3rd February 11:42
in what way is the Hamilton analogous to an IWC Portuguese?
At the end of the day though the original post was 'here's my new watch/strap combination, I like it what do others think'. You've already said you don't like it in a constructive way and that's all cool but to see how the rest thread has degenerated into a frankly pointless debate about what constitues a copy/hommage/fake is somewhat disappointing.
I was genuinley interested in the Hamilton comparison. I have an IWC Portuguese and couldn't for the life of me see where the similarities lie. I'm glad you are not convinced either as I thought I was going mad.
I guess there's a passing resemblence but that's about it...
Cheers
DC
Dai Capp said:
el stovey said:
Dai Capp said:
Interesting you say this - the Hamilton Jazzmaster Valjoux 7750 Chronograph is regarded as and sold used as 'the nearest thing to an IWC Portuguese for a third of the price'. There's also a Precista which bears more than a passing resemblence to a Radomir but people seem to forget these...
That's because it's completely different. They aren't watches that are made with exactly the same case and hands, numerals subdial etc.They are just watches that look like another watch.
Listen to yourself.
Your watch is an exact Panerai copy. The maker has taken a genuine Panerai and copied it exactly. The only difference is that on yours the numbers are a slightly different colour to a genuine one and it doesn't have a Panerai logo on the front.
Are you suggesting Hamilton make a watch with exactly the same case and hands and numerals as an IWC Portuguese?
Dai,
I think the point is that these Panerai "homages" look exactly like Panerais and copy the distinctive dial fonts and case shape of the watch that they "pay tribute" to. Plenty of watches have the generic look of a marine timer, or a sub, or a B-Uhr flieger, but have enough individual design elements so that they can't be described as being fakes, merely "of the genre."
In my eyes, and I suspect many other watch enthusiasts feel the same, these Panerai-esque watches are just fakes trying to be something they aren't. I have the utmost respect for the craftsmanship, quality of reproduction and movements that go into some of them, but can't help feeling that so much hard work is undermined by the fact that they borrow their design cues wholesale, without any attempt at originality, from the designs of another company. And before you ask, no I don't consider a black face and coloured dial inserts original enough to change my view.
Take a look at the difference between Panerai and Anonimo. Created by the same workmen in some cases, and with the same purpose in mind as Panerai, but still managing to be so completely individual in design that they avoid any accusation of being Panerai fakes. Probably no less work goes into them than goes into the Ray Knight watches, but the respect they enjoy from the watch enthusiast community is real and well deserved.
I suspect that you won't change our view of your watch, and I won't try to do the same to you. Ultimately it is you who wears it, so it only really matters that it is you that likes it.
Stuart
I think the point is that these Panerai "homages" look exactly like Panerais and copy the distinctive dial fonts and case shape of the watch that they "pay tribute" to. Plenty of watches have the generic look of a marine timer, or a sub, or a B-Uhr flieger, but have enough individual design elements so that they can't be described as being fakes, merely "of the genre."
In my eyes, and I suspect many other watch enthusiasts feel the same, these Panerai-esque watches are just fakes trying to be something they aren't. I have the utmost respect for the craftsmanship, quality of reproduction and movements that go into some of them, but can't help feeling that so much hard work is undermined by the fact that they borrow their design cues wholesale, without any attempt at originality, from the designs of another company. And before you ask, no I don't consider a black face and coloured dial inserts original enough to change my view.
Take a look at the difference between Panerai and Anonimo. Created by the same workmen in some cases, and with the same purpose in mind as Panerai, but still managing to be so completely individual in design that they avoid any accusation of being Panerai fakes. Probably no less work goes into them than goes into the Ray Knight watches, but the respect they enjoy from the watch enthusiast community is real and well deserved.
I suspect that you won't change our view of your watch, and I won't try to do the same to you. Ultimately it is you who wears it, so it only really matters that it is you that likes it.
Stuart
el stovey said:
Dai Capp said:
el stovey said:
Dai Capp said:
Interesting you say this - the Hamilton Jazzmaster Valjoux 7750 Chronograph is regarded as and sold used as 'the nearest thing to an IWC Portuguese for a third of the price'. There's also a Precista which bears more than a passing resemblence to a Radomir but people seem to forget these...
That's because it's completely different. They aren't watches that are made with exactly the same case and hands, numerals subdial etc.They are just watches that look like another watch.
Listen to yourself.
Your watch is an exact Panerai copy. The maker has taken a genuine Panerai and copied it exactly. The only difference is that on yours the numbers are a slightly different colour to a genuine one and it doesn't have a Panerai logo on the front.
Are you suggesting Hamilton make a watch with exactly the same case and hands and numerals as an IWC Portuguese?
I'm not getting uppity either, I just find it hard to see the difference between 'They are just watches that look like another watch' which seems to be fine and 'That's a hommage therefore it's not fine'. At the end of the day surely a hommage is just a watch that looks like another watch.
Oh well - I posted this thread originally because I was really happy with my new watch and strap. That remains so. It's just a shame that it couldn't have been left as a simple 'I like it too' or 'I don't like it'. Whoami had the right idea - he didn't like and said so contructively.
There's plenty of other threads on here that go on endlessly about the fake/replica/hommage debate, I did, somewhat short-sightedly, hope this one wouldn't.
Stuart said:
Dai,
I think the point is that these Panerai "homages" look exactly like Panerais and copy the distinctive dial fonts and case shape of the watch that they "pay tribute" to. Plenty of watches have the generic look of a marine timer, or a sub, or a B-Uhr flieger, but have enough individual design elements so that they can't be described as being fakes, merely "of the genre."
In my eyes, and I suspect many other watch enthusiasts feel the same, these Panerai-esque watches are just fakes trying to be something they aren't. I have the utmost respect for the craftsmanship, quality of reproduction and movements that go into some of them, but can't help feeling that so much hard work is undermined by the fact that they borrow their design cues wholesale, without any attempt at originality, from the designs of another company. And before you ask, no I don't consider a black face and coloured dial inserts original enough to change my view.
Take a look at the difference between Panerai and Anonimo. Created by the same workmen in some cases, and with the same purpose in mind as Panerai, but still managing to be so completely individual in design that they avoid any accusation of being Panerai fakes. Probably no less work goes into them than goes into the Ray Knight watches, but the respect they enjoy from the watch enthusiast community is real and well deserved.
I suspect that you won't change our view of your watch, and I won't try to do the same to you. Ultimately it is you who wears it, so it only really matters that it is you that likes it.
Stuart
StuartI think the point is that these Panerai "homages" look exactly like Panerais and copy the distinctive dial fonts and case shape of the watch that they "pay tribute" to. Plenty of watches have the generic look of a marine timer, or a sub, or a B-Uhr flieger, but have enough individual design elements so that they can't be described as being fakes, merely "of the genre."
In my eyes, and I suspect many other watch enthusiasts feel the same, these Panerai-esque watches are just fakes trying to be something they aren't. I have the utmost respect for the craftsmanship, quality of reproduction and movements that go into some of them, but can't help feeling that so much hard work is undermined by the fact that they borrow their design cues wholesale, without any attempt at originality, from the designs of another company. And before you ask, no I don't consider a black face and coloured dial inserts original enough to change my view.
Take a look at the difference between Panerai and Anonimo. Created by the same workmen in some cases, and with the same purpose in mind as Panerai, but still managing to be so completely individual in design that they avoid any accusation of being Panerai fakes. Probably no less work goes into them than goes into the Ray Knight watches, but the respect they enjoy from the watch enthusiast community is real and well deserved.
I suspect that you won't change our view of your watch, and I won't try to do the same to you. Ultimately it is you who wears it, so it only really matters that it is you that likes it.
Stuart
Thanks for your constuctive view
I pretty much agree and thought long and hard about the Ray Knight but I just really liked it which was the original point of the thread. I guess I'm lucky - I am a watch enthustiast, I own several Tags, many cheapies which I tend to take apart and ruin
plus a couple of other mid priced pieces and if I wanted to I could buy a Panerai and most likely will do at some point. When I do will I stop wearing my Ray Knight? No because I like at as a time piece, it serves me well and I wear it in good health.As the title said, I'm a happy boy!
Cheers
DC
Dai Capp said:
I just find it hard to see the difference between 'They are just watches that look like another watch' which seems to be fine and 'That's a hommage therefore it's not fine'. At the end of the day surely a hommage is just a watch that looks like another watch.
Your (and the other Panerai pictured) don't just "look like another watch" though. They copy the Panerai exactly with minor changes in colour of the numbers.It's the level of emulation that makes a difference. There are plenty of watches that look like others but when the maker copies the distinctive Panerai case and crown guard and numerals exactly it's no longer 'in the style of'.
For what it's worth I like the way your watch looks, because I like the genuine Panerai that it is the same as.
el stovey said:
Dai Capp said:
I just find it hard to see the difference between 'They are just watches that look like another watch' which seems to be fine and 'That's a hommage therefore it's not fine'. At the end of the day surely a hommage is just a watch that looks like another watch.
Your (and the other Panerai pictured) don't just "look like another watch" though. They copy the Panerai exactly with minor changes in colour of the numbers.It's the level of emulation that makes a difference. There are plenty of watches that look like others but when the maker copies the distinctive Panerai case and crown guard and numerals exactly it's no longer 'in the style of'.
For what it's worth I like the way your watch looks, because I like the genuine Panerai that it is the same as.
All the best
DC
ShadownINja said:
What about this?
The Precista "Italian" PRS-20.
What about it? Falls into the same category in my view. The Precista "Italian" PRS-20.
I wonder what it is about Panerai which means that fakes of this brand in particular have acquired a legitimacy in some quarters entirely lacking in other brands? Is it because the design itself is so old?
Stuart said:
I wonder what it is about Panerai which means that fakes of this brand in particular have acquired a legitimacy in some quarters entirely lacking in other brands? Is it because the design itself is so old?
Good question.I expect it's a combination of a couple of things.
Firstly, the fact that many people consider them to have a great looking design but to be wildly overpriced perhaps makes fans think it's fair game to copy them.
I also think it's the 'cult' status that PAM watches had and their relative rarity makes a copy one easier to pass as a new creation amongst the public in the way that no copy Submariner with just different coloured hands and no logo ever would.
You hear many people saying their copy panerai is unique etc which is at least a bit odd seeing as it's a copy of a genuine one with minor cosmetic changes. Nobody would ever consider an unbranded daytona copy with slightly different hour markers to be a unique creation.
el stovey said:
It's a bit of a shame as the maker of the PRS-20 makes some new and interesting watches but that isn't one of them.
I expect he receives less criticism of the closeness of the PRS 20 to the radiomir base due to his link with a certain website.
First point you make: he does make some nice stuff and from what I understand it they are a really well made watch but yes this is one of his less interesting pieces. I like it though but as you said earlier, probably because if its similarity to a genuine Radomir. I expect he receives less criticism of the closeness of the PRS 20 to the radiomir base due to his link with a certain website.
Second point: reckon you've probably hit the nail on the head
Cheers
DC
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