How Do Trains Get To The Right Place
Discussion
I've always wondered how the right train gets to the right place.
I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the train driver has no control over where his/her train gets directed to.
Presumably there's some central scheduling system that knows which train is where, where it needs to go and how the points/signals need to get set to get it to the right place.
How does it work ?
Do trains ever get sent to the wrong place ?
I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the train driver has no control over where his/her train gets directed to.
Presumably there's some central scheduling system that knows which train is where, where it needs to go and how the points/signals need to get set to get it to the right place.
How does it work ?
Do trains ever get sent to the wrong place ?
They usually load them on to the back of trucks and drive them to where they need to be (assuming that they end up in the wrong place).
So if a virgin train is running late and end up in Euston too late for the driver to take it back they load it onto a lorry and drive it back up to Edinburgh - you have probably seem them on the back on 240ft low loaders.
So if a virgin train is running late and end up in Euston too late for the driver to take it back they load it onto a lorry and drive it back up to Edinburgh - you have probably seem them on the back on 240ft low loaders.
Seight_Returns said:
I've always wondered how the right train gets to the right place.
I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the train driver has no control over where his/her train gets directed to.
Presumably there's some central scheduling system that knows which train is where, where it needs to go and how the points/signals need to get set to get it to the right place.
How does it work ?
Do trains ever get sent to the wrong place ?
I've been meaning to ask the exact same question so will be interested in the answer I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the train driver has no control over where his/her train gets directed to.
Presumably there's some central scheduling system that knows which train is where, where it needs to go and how the points/signals need to get set to get it to the right place.
How does it work ?
Do trains ever get sent to the wrong place ?
Mr Gearchange said:
They usually load them on to the back of trucks and drive them to where they need to be (assuming that they end up in the wrong place).
So if a virgin train is running late and end up in Euston too late for the driver to take it back they load it onto a lorry and drive it back up to Edinburgh - you have probably seem them on the back on 240ft low loaders.
Lmao So if a virgin train is running late and end up in Euston too late for the driver to take it back they load it onto a lorry and drive it back up to Edinburgh - you have probably seem them on the back on 240ft low loaders.
To answer the question er well trains are of course driven by a person although of course there are some that are fully automated, they simply follow signals that tell them if the next portion of line is clear and also at diverging points which route has been set for them. On the main network in the UK the signalling is controlled by signalmen from various signalboxs, there are basically 3 types of signalbox old leverframes with signals and points being worked from the box by metal rods and wires, electronic 'panels' whereby the signals and points are controlled by switches mounted quite literally on a panel, finally there are computer controlled signalboxs whereby the signals etc are controlled by a computer workstation instead of actual switches and buttons, in some of these the computer itself has a programme that can route the various trains but some are fully manual.
The signalmen know where each train is either by the trains making an electric circuit through their wheels that is indicated in the signalbox or in the older less high tech areas by manually operated indications and when passing from one area to another by a morse code like system of bells.
Do they ever end up going the wrong way? Well they can be routed towards the wrong direction simply by human error on the part of the signalman or by a wrongly programmed computer. Usually the driver will notice the error and stop before going the wrong way although there have been cases of brain fade from both driver and signalman and trains have ended up miles from their correct route. Mercifully rare these days.
Very rough description I know train spotters but hope this helps.
The signalmen know where each train is either by the trains making an electric circuit through their wheels that is indicated in the signalbox or in the older less high tech areas by manually operated indications and when passing from one area to another by a morse code like system of bells.
Do they ever end up going the wrong way? Well they can be routed towards the wrong direction simply by human error on the part of the signalman or by a wrongly programmed computer. Usually the driver will notice the error and stop before going the wrong way although there have been cases of brain fade from both driver and signalman and trains have ended up miles from their correct route. Mercifully rare these days.
Very rough description I know train spotters but hope this helps.
Signal men also use axle counters and treadles (more for level crossings) for locating trains.
Signalmen lock in a trains journey into the system (called interlocking) and it is checked and double checked for line clearence, to see where it waits at signals, where a train has priority and to stop it running into trains in front etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlocking
Signalmen lock in a trains journey into the system (called interlocking) and it is checked and double checked for line clearence, to see where it waits at signals, where a train has priority and to stop it running into trains in front etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlocking
Thanks all. Very interesting responses.
What I was really trying to understand wasn't so much the mechanics of how signalling and interlockign works, but how the route planning and scheduling works.
What sparked my thinking was the preserved Deltic that's been contracted to work the freight route in Blythe. In order for it to get from wherever it's kept (Barrow Hill?) to Blythe - presumably someone had to pick up the phone and arrange for it to be scheduled to get from A to B and for all the right points/signals to be set so it ended up in the right place.
What I was really trying to understand wasn't so much the mechanics of how signalling and interlockign works, but how the route planning and scheduling works.
What sparked my thinking was the preserved Deltic that's been contracted to work the freight route in Blythe. In order for it to get from wherever it's kept (Barrow Hill?) to Blythe - presumably someone had to pick up the phone and arrange for it to be scheduled to get from A to B and for all the right points/signals to be set so it ended up in the right place.
Kermit power said:
Do human drivers serve any purpose at all?
If you set out tomorrow to design the perfect computer-controlled mass transportation system, would you not immediately start with putting it on rails, and go from there?
They've got it in Singapore, it was on 'How Do They Do It?' last week I think. Totally driver free, and works very well.If you set out tomorrow to design the perfect computer-controlled mass transportation system, would you not immediately start with putting it on rails, and go from there?
goforbroke said:
Kermit power said:
Do human drivers serve any purpose at all?
If you set out tomorrow to design the perfect computer-controlled mass transportation system, would you not immediately start with putting it on rails, and go from there?
They've got it in Singapore, it was on 'How Do They Do It?' last week I think. Totally driver free, and works very well.If you set out tomorrow to design the perfect computer-controlled mass transportation system, would you not immediately start with putting it on rails, and go from there?
Kermit power said:
Do human drivers serve any purpose at all?
If you set out tomorrow to design the perfect computer-controlled mass transportation system, would you not immediately start with putting it on rails, and go from there?
It has always struck me as being far easier to computerize the rail network than to bugger about with road pricing.If you set out tomorrow to design the perfect computer-controlled mass transportation system, would you not immediately start with putting it on rails, and go from there?
Seight_Returns said:
Thanks all. Very interesting responses.
What I was really trying to understand wasn't so much the mechanics of how signalling and interlockign works, but how the route planning and scheduling works.
What sparked my thinking was the preserved Deltic that's been contracted to work the freight route in Blythe. In order for it to get from wherever it's kept (Barrow Hill?) to Blythe - presumably someone had to pick up the phone and arrange for it to be scheduled to get from A to B and for all the right points/signals to be set so it ended up in the right place.
When I worked on the railway I seem to recall that once a month we use to get sent a timetable of all the movements on the region, light engines, empty stock,frait ect What I was really trying to understand wasn't so much the mechanics of how signalling and interlockign works, but how the route planning and scheduling works.
What sparked my thinking was the preserved Deltic that's been contracted to work the freight route in Blythe. In order for it to get from wherever it's kept (Barrow Hill?) to Blythe - presumably someone had to pick up the phone and arrange for it to be scheduled to get from A to B and for all the right points/signals to be set so it ended up in the right place.
Singapore is fully automated, as is the Docklands light railway and the Jubilee line. Automation is the future. Not only does it stop strikes it also allows a train to stop in the same place, day in day out. Allowing for Singpore style screening, prevent Joe Bloggs from track access and touching the 3/4th rail.
A problem with this is the mix of rolling stock employed on the railway, with different length carriages having different distances betweem doors, making the stopping of a train at the same spot somewhat problematic.
Train movements from one place to another are scheduled way in advance, and in some cases they are sent through the night. It is also really expensive, so the suggestion earlier that they are moved by road, is in fact, not ludicrous, and it does happen.
A movement schedule is released by Network Rail every week, showing planned possesions, work sites and protection limits for certain areas, I'm not sure on movements, but it is likely.
A problem with this is the mix of rolling stock employed on the railway, with different length carriages having different distances betweem doors, making the stopping of a train at the same spot somewhat problematic.
Train movements from one place to another are scheduled way in advance, and in some cases they are sent through the night. It is also really expensive, so the suggestion earlier that they are moved by road, is in fact, not ludicrous, and it does happen.
A movement schedule is released by Network Rail every week, showing planned possesions, work sites and protection limits for certain areas, I'm not sure on movements, but it is likely.
Kermit power said:
Do human drivers serve any purpose at all?
Kermit power said:
I just love the thought of Bob Crow and his band of scum trying to stop computers from crossing their picket line!
from a drivers point of view -
the driver gets a diagram which will have the route to take .
he knows which signals he needs for the route required .
any doubt and a call to the relevant control or a look at TRUST will sort it out .
a basic diagram -
location A depart at 1200 as 1E23
via location B
location C arrive at 1300
rest break
location C depart at 1400 as 1F23
via location D
location A arrive at 1500
does that answer your question Seight_Returns ?
tight5 said:
does that answer your question Seight_Returns ?
Getting there, thanks. Still a bit curious as to who/how the presumably hugely complcated schedule to ensure that all the passenger/freight/other services gets co-ordianted.What's "TRUST" ? Is that the scheduling system that produces these route maps - similar to the "TOPS" system that Tonker describes above ?
If for example, the owner/operator of Tornado needs to get the loco from Hither Green where I believe it lives, to Kings Cross to pull a mainline special, then back to Hither Green again at the end of the day - do they just call up Railtrack with their requirements and one of these route maps with the times and route get emailed to them along with an invoice for whatever parts of the network they've used ?
Edited by Seight_Returns on Thursday 2nd June 17:00
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