boaty help required

[insurance_jon]

Hi guys,

We've just changed/updated our yacht insurance pages, and would appreciate it if you boating types could try submitting a couple of test quote requests for us. Just so we know it makes sense to boat owners.

http://www.lockyers.co.uk/business-insurance/yacht...

please use TEST as your surname.

Thanks in advance

Regards

Jon

[Simpo Two]

Some people may not know what 'bareboat' means; I had to think about it, sounds like a rowing boat. 'Self-drive' might be better

[insurance_jon]

Cheers simpo,

I'm stuck on what to do with that bit, as self drive might sound a "bit thick" to experienced owners, but as you say bareboat conjours up the wrong image to novices.

[MOTORVATOR]

Not that hard to solve, just don't ask the same question twice.

Do you Pilot the Craft Yourself or Use A Skipper

[insurance_jon]

That still wouldn't cover bareboat charter though is renting the boat to others 'selfdrive'

[MOTORVATOR]

I think you have answered the question yourself. If I put down private and pleasure I don't want (need) to be asked questions that relate to charter and vice versa.

As you rightly say bareboat is a charter term and should only be asked of those it is relevant to who would understand it. And conversely the additional question doesn't need to be asked of a charter individual / company, the only pertinent question being qualifications carried for a skippered charter.

[Simpo Two]

MOTORVATOR said:

Do you Pilot the Craft Yourself or Use A Skipper

Pilot, skipper, helmsman...

AFAIK a pilot either drives an airplane or is a chap who gets onto big ships to guide them into port.

Which leaves Skipper and Helmsman. And probably Captain, which can be a verb.

It's a big field as you have millionaires with crew at one end, ocean-going yachtsman at another and small inland users (like Commander Simpo RMN) at a third end...

[MOTORVATOR]

Simpo Two said:

(like Commander Simpo RMN) at a third end...

You've gone and got yourself one of those peaked caps haven't you? Does it have gold braid.

[Simpo Two]

MOTORVATOR said:

You've gone and got yourself one of those peaked caps haven't you? Does it have gold braid.

You'll be pleased to hear that although some friends were planning to buy me one I told them it was naff!




I much prefer my Japanese Admiral's uniform. 'Atora Atora Atora' - attack with suet.

[MOTORVATOR]

Ah the infamous last words of the suetcide bombers as they went in.

[insurance_jon]

Made some changes, given a private owner may want to charter the vessel out. Does this flow better?
http://www.lockyers.co.uk/business-insurance/yacht...

[MOTORVATOR]

I'd say so Jon.

After my last post I was thinking your market is probably five fold.

Private use only - owner skippered

Private use only - crewed

Charter only - owner skippered

Charter only - crewed

any mix of above.

So I guess it needs to flow for each of those scenarios?

[insurance_jon]

Hmmm, the policies are basically private, but can have racing and charter as options.

I think I need to move the skippering questions to the same area as the chartering ones though to give a bit move clarity

[maser_spyder]

Slightly off topic, but how much (very, very approximately) would adding bareboat charter on to a private policy add to the premium?

Don't want to hold you to anything, just interested if it's 20% more, or 200% more.

Assuming 40' sailing yacht, standard make/type (call it a Bavaria 39 or something).

We're thinking of adding to our fleet (so I can call myself 'Commodore' - stick that up your trumpet Commander Simpo RNM ), just interested as to what extent the insurance would change if we decided to go bigger and get some charter revenue to offset the extra costs.

[MOTORVATOR]

maser_spyder said:

so I can call myself 'Commodore' - stick that up your trumpet Commander Simpo RNM

I believe the title of Rear Admiral of the United Kingdom is vacant at present so I'm going to grab that before he can.

[insurance_jon]

maser_spyder said:

Slightly off topic, but how much (very, very approximately) would adding bareboat charter on to a private policy add to the premium?

Don't want to hold you to anything, just interested if it's 20% more, or 200% more.

Assuming 40' sailing yacht, standard make/type (call it a Bavaria 39 or something).

We're thinking of adding to our fleet (so I can call myself 'Commodore' - stick that up your trumpet Commander Simpo RNM ), just interested as to what extent the insurance would change if we decided to go bigger and get some charter revenue to offset the extra costs.

If you can get it (much twisting of underwriters arms needed), your looking at around 300% load and onerous terms. Whereas skippered charter add's very little as long as the vehicle is coded (if required).

[maser_spyder]

insurance_jon said:

maser_spyder said:

Slightly off topic, but how much (very, very approximately) would adding bareboat charter on to a private policy add to the premium?

Don't want to hold you to anything, just interested if it's 20% more, or 200% more.

Assuming 40' sailing yacht, standard make/type (call it a Bavaria 39 or something).

We're thinking of adding to our fleet (so I can call myself 'Commodore' - stick that up your trumpet Commander Simpo RNM ), just interested as to what extent the insurance would change if we decided to go bigger and get some charter revenue to offset the extra costs.

If you can get it (much twisting of underwriters arms needed), your looking at around 300% load and onerous terms. Whereas skippered charter add's very little as long as the vehicle is coded (if required).

That's interesting.

I thought every charter boat (anything used for commercial purposes of any sort) had to be coded though?

So basically, insurance for bareboat charter is around three times the cost of a personal policy. Just to make sure I'm in the right ball park!

That's not actually too bad, given what we're looking to spend, and what the potential returns could be based on where she'll be living.

[MOTORVATOR]

maser_spyder said:

That's interesting.

I thought every charter boat (anything used for commercial purposes of any sort) had to be coded though?

I might be wrong but I thought that was only if you carry the british flag. I guess where ever you register her will have their own standard (or not) but then there must also be some rules that apply from the countries waters she operates in.

[SpeedYellow]

Yup any yacht used anywhere in the world HAS to be coded to standards of the flagged country.

The flagged country will then dictate which countries the vessel can operate in. For example a UK flagged vessel cannot operate in US waters (without lots of strange paperwork to hand it over to US citizen) and a US vessel can only operate in European waters under charter with a permit. This is normally basically charged at European VAT rates on the yacht.

As with anything there are loop holes etc but remember the skipper is ultimately responsible when operating the vessel so be careful about paperwork.

[maser_spyder]

MOTORVATOR said:

maser_spyder said:

That's interesting.

I thought every charter boat (anything used for commercial purposes of any sort) had to be coded though?

I might be wrong but I thought that was only if you carry the british flag. I guess where ever you register her will have their own standard (or not) but then there must also be some rules that apply from the countries waters she operates in.

Yes of course. I was thinking rather small canvas, and would only be operating UK (and only the south at that), and maybe France. Certainly no further than EU, where most of this is harmonised anyway. I was basically thinking of getting the relevant equipment (liferaft, correct lifejackets, etc.) and just using the RYA to do the inspection. You can kind of trust the RYA I think!

I guess it's like the big container and oil ships, where they are checked whilst in port, and aren't allowed to leave until they're up to standard to be used in this part of the world. The MCA publishes a list of which ships have been impounded until remedial works are undertaken, I remember reading it online once.



ETA - http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-home/newsandpubli...