Seventy Years late

[telecat]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13768410

Two words

Fairey Rotodyne.

Another cut and forget from the idiots who make up the MOD.

[scubadude]

They'll be no hanging out the sides to fire guns or lift people on a winch coastguard style with those side rotors! I'm sure its revolutionary but it does look like a cut-n-shut job with an old helicopter and spare plane parts :-)

The Sikorsky attempt looks more advanced to me.

[MrPeters]

[quote]Eurocopter's Jean-Michel Billig: 'It's a game changer in the way we use helicopters in our day-to-day life'
[/quote]
Couldn't agree more.

[Odie]

and 20 years too late http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-22_Osprey

and the 8 year old Bell 609 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_609

The bell-boeing V-22 & bell609 already fills all the roles that they have designed the X-Cubed to carry out..

But im guessing it will be alot cheaper since its just a helicopter with 2 engines strapped too it.

[annodomini2]

Odie said:

and 20 years too late http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-22_Osprey

and the 8 year old Bell 609 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_609

The bell-boeing V-22 & bell609 already fills all the roles that they have designed the X-Cubed to carry out..

But im guessing it will be alot cheaper since its just a helicopter with 2 engines strapped too it.

Depending on how much weight the extra prop assemblies add, but possibly lighter too.

As tilting assemblies are quite heavy as the have to take most of the weight of the aircraft and payload.

[Mr Dave]

Watching the videos of it, I dont like how it seems all the bits bounce around something shocking seemingly independantly of the other bits.

Its also uglier than most helicopters.

[db]

i see a fatal flaw in this.
at some point they'll set one down in an emergency and the passengers will egress straight into the blades. could the blades be ducted or is there some way of stopping the rotation instantly?

[Fat Albert]

db said:

i see a fatal flaw in this.
at some point they'll set one down in an emergency and the passengers will egress straight into the blades. could the blades be ducted or is there some way of stopping the rotation instantly?

How is this different in this respect from most mid-sized propellor twins?

My question is; do the wings produce enough translational lift to counter-act the retreating blade stall at higher speeds?

[telecat]

The reasoning behind the Eurocopter and Sikorsky is that they are Simpler to make and fly than the "Tilt" wings. The fact that the Fairey Rotodyne did everything these "new" versions do in the 1950's and did it as fast with a passenger cabin that would have seated at least 10 people.

[eharding]

telecat said:

The reasoning behind the Eurocopter and Sikorsky is that they are Simpler to make and fly than the "Tilt" wings. The fact that the Fairey Rotodyne did everything these "new" versions do in the 1950's and did it as fast with a passenger cabin that would have seated at least 10 people.

Yes, but it failed because it was so bloody LOUD.

It was so loud, I swear you can still hear it, when wandering around the peri-track at White Waltham on a quiet evening.

[Mojocvh]

eharding said:

Yes, but it failed because it was so bloody LOUD.

It was so loud, I swear you can still hear it, when wandering around the peri-track at White Waltham on a quiet evening.

Did the fairy duct exhaust gas to drive the lift rotor ?

[mybrainhurts]

Mojocvh said:

eharding said:

Yes, but it failed because it was so bloody LOUD.

It was so loud, I swear you can still hear it, when wandering around the peri-track at White Waltham on a quiet evening.

Did the fairy duct exhaust gas to drive the lift rotor ?

Do you have any fairy in mind...?

[telecat]

Mojocvh said:

eharding said:

Yes, but it failed because it was so bloody LOUD.

It was so loud, I swear you can still hear it, when wandering around the peri-track at White Waltham on a quiet evening.

Did the fairy duct exhaust gas to drive the lift rotor ?

Yes it did use Eland engines on the rotors. As for the loudness it was about 107db initially. By the time of the flights over London to Battersea Heliport it had been cut to 96db and people who phoned the complaint line asked IF the Rotodyne had flown past.

[Zad]

Now consider how noisy jets were in 1957, and how relatively quiet they are now. It isn't unreasonable to expect a similar level of noise reduction in the Rotodyne.

[hidetheelephants]

The title ought to say 'Fifty years late', but whatever.

The Rotodyne programme was run on a shoe string; despite that they had a reasonable prospect of producing a medium lift(5-6t) aircraft that would cost about 50% of the equivalent helicopter, and in production by 1961. Yes the rotor jets were noisy, but that was due largely to the lack of funding for newer and more powerful rotor tip jets. Extracting more power from the existing jets was possible, but made lots of noise; as a temporary means of speeding up development it worked. New quieter designs were being tested when the programme was chopped.

Having spent nearly £30 million in government funding and being within sniffing distance of a commercial contract worth twice that, the government in the form of the MoD and BEA pulled the rug out from under Fairey and effectively forced them abandon the Rotodyne and sell their helicopter division to Westlands. Westlands played with designing medium lift choppers but never actually sold any. The RAF had to make do with stuff like the Bristol 192(3t lift) and Wessex(2t lift) until Chinooks were finally ordered in 1978. Another great 'defeat snatched from the jaws of victory' moment in British aviation.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Sunday 19th June 00:20

[Eric Mc]

I've always felt that the biggest reason the Rotodyne got the chop was that Westland had no interest in the concept whatsoever. It was a classic case of "not invented here" syndrome.

A great shame - and still a concept worth pursuing - by someone.

[hidetheelephants]

Eric Mc said:

I've always felt that the biggest reason the Rotodyne got the chop was that Westland had no interest in the concept whatsoever. It was a classic case of "not invented here" syndrome.

A great shame - and still a concept worth pursuing - by someone.

There doesn't seem to be evidence of that; Westlands were working on the Westminster, but that seems to have been a technical failure with only prototypes built and no government support as the rotodyne was so much nearer to production. Having read the Rotodyne book written by one of the Fairey development team, seemingly Westlands didn't care much either way; the Rotodyne work continued under their management until the money ran out, then it was all shelved and most of the metalwork scrapped. Managerial disinterest, coupled with the government saying no to civil or military orders and overseas orders dependent entirely upon the UK ordering first; a catch 22 situation ending in nothing being built.

It was a good concept then; building one now with modern manufacturing techniques it would piss all over heavy lift choppers and Osprey in terms of running costs. The benign failure modes compared to choppers are a compelling argument on their own; the majority of non-pilot error helicopter casualtys are gearbox-related.