The Red Arrows - what is their purpose?
Discussion
Firstly, I am a great admirer of theirs and have seen them perform a few times over the years.
I was of course sorry to learn of the death of Flt Lt Egging at the weekend but it's led me to ask the role the Red Arrows play in the RAF.
We are all aware that defence budgets have been cut to the bone so why does the MoD decide to continue to fund an aerobatic display team. I would imagine that The Red Arrows merchandise makes a lot of money and I have no idea if organisers pay for them to display at airshows but these pilots cost the taxpayer millions to train and are risking their lives for entertainment purposes. The same really goes for any airshow the RAF participate in.
Its a sign of the times that if this pilot had been killed in action the media attention and public sympathy would have been a lot less simply because of the celebrity status of The Red Arrows. So maybe The Red Arrows also draw attention away from the very serious role of the RAF?
Hope someone can educate me on how they make millions for MoD coffers.
I was of course sorry to learn of the death of Flt Lt Egging at the weekend but it's led me to ask the role the Red Arrows play in the RAF.
We are all aware that defence budgets have been cut to the bone so why does the MoD decide to continue to fund an aerobatic display team. I would imagine that The Red Arrows merchandise makes a lot of money and I have no idea if organisers pay for them to display at airshows but these pilots cost the taxpayer millions to train and are risking their lives for entertainment purposes. The same really goes for any airshow the RAF participate in.
Its a sign of the times that if this pilot had been killed in action the media attention and public sympathy would have been a lot less simply because of the celebrity status of The Red Arrows. So maybe The Red Arrows also draw attention away from the very serious role of the RAF?
Hope someone can educate me on how they make millions for MoD coffers.
Edited by pattyg on Monday 22 August 21:52
Edited by pattyg on Monday 22 August 21:53
I think you will find that from the point of view of the RAF the Red Arrows are actually great publicity, and a fantastic recruitment tool. Lots of young men will want to sign up to be a pilot and join the Red Arrows. Also I suspect it is a great tool for encouraging motivation within the RAF. I suspect most fast jet pilots would want to be in the Red Arrows although very few can do it.
They are also a great showcase for the RAF being world renowned for their skills. The reality is they probably dont serve any military purpose but its that unquantifiable promotion that justifies them. One thing is for certain is that if they were cut in defence cuts they would never return, so lets not even question their role.
Lets all agree that we have no problem with our taxes funding the Red Arrows.
They are also a great showcase for the RAF being world renowned for their skills. The reality is they probably dont serve any military purpose but its that unquantifiable promotion that justifies them. One thing is for certain is that if they were cut in defence cuts they would never return, so lets not even question their role.
Lets all agree that we have no problem with our taxes funding the Red Arrows.
Recruitment is one. The other is the promotion of the Bae Systems Hawk trainer. Quite a good thing to send over to a country if they are considering buying new trainer aircraft.
I think BAe Systems probably supports them quite a bit. The Red Arrows team, also take part in charity events aswell. I think there is a charity event (cycling I think) taking place this year.
It is also a sense of national pride, identity, The French have the Patrouille De France, the Italians the Frecce Tricolorri, the Spanish the Patrouille Aguila, the Swiss the Patrouille Suisse, Turkish have the Turkish Stars and so on.
I think BAe Systems probably supports them quite a bit. The Red Arrows team, also take part in charity events aswell. I think there is a charity event (cycling I think) taking place this year.
It is also a sense of national pride, identity, The French have the Patrouille De France, the Italians the Frecce Tricolorri, the Spanish the Patrouille Aguila, the Swiss the Patrouille Suisse, Turkish have the Turkish Stars and so on.
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Arrows
"After displaying 1,292 times in the Folland Gnat, the Red Arrows took delivery of the BAe Hawk in the winter of 1979. Since being introduced into service with the Red Arrows, the Hawk has performed with the Red Arrows in fifty countries.
Folland Gnat T1 on display in 2009 in Red Arrows markings at the former team base Kemble.
In July 2004 there was speculation in the British media that the Red Arrows would be disbanded, after a defence spending review, due to running costs of between £5 million and £6 million.[4] The Arrows were not disbanded and their expense has been justified through their public relations benefit of helping to develop business in the defence industry and promoting recruitment for the RAF. According to the BBC, it is highly unlikely that the Red Arrows will be disbanded, as they are a considerable attraction throughout the world.
they're the best at what they do, a huge advert for our air force. crowds flock to see them whenever they display or practice.
£9 million a year for that is well worth it
"After displaying 1,292 times in the Folland Gnat, the Red Arrows took delivery of the BAe Hawk in the winter of 1979. Since being introduced into service with the Red Arrows, the Hawk has performed with the Red Arrows in fifty countries.
Folland Gnat T1 on display in 2009 in Red Arrows markings at the former team base Kemble.
In July 2004 there was speculation in the British media that the Red Arrows would be disbanded, after a defence spending review, due to running costs of between £5 million and £6 million.[4] The Arrows were not disbanded and their expense has been justified through their public relations benefit of helping to develop business in the defence industry and promoting recruitment for the RAF. According to the BBC, it is highly unlikely that the Red Arrows will be disbanded, as they are a considerable attraction throughout the world.
they're the best at what they do, a huge advert for our air force. crowds flock to see them whenever they display or practice.
£9 million a year for that is well worth it
I can think of no better promotional tool for the RAF than having the best aerial display team in the world.
I've seen them many, many times. Each and every time I have seen them their skill has astounded me.
I seriously doubt the death of Flt Lt Jon Egging will seriously affect their future. If it did though, I would be the first in line to demand the decision be reversed.
I've seen them many, many times. Each and every time I have seen them their skill has astounded me.
I seriously doubt the death of Flt Lt Jon Egging will seriously affect their future. If it did though, I would be the first in line to demand the decision be reversed.
I think the Reds charge about £10k for a display, which is a fraction of what they actually cost to fly.
So they don't make any money, they cost money, however it is small money compared to the amounts being given to things like Climate change and International Aid.
The moment you start questioning the Reds, you then say what is the point of the BBMF?
The Red Arrows are a sign of UK "Business as usual." What would it be like at the start of the Olympics with no flypast or no jets trailing Red White & Blue down the length of the Mall at The Queen's Official Birthday?
Anyone looking at scrapping the Reds would be facing political suicide.
So they don't make any money, they cost money, however it is small money compared to the amounts being given to things like Climate change and International Aid.
The moment you start questioning the Reds, you then say what is the point of the BBMF?
The Red Arrows are a sign of UK "Business as usual." What would it be like at the start of the Olympics with no flypast or no jets trailing Red White & Blue down the length of the Mall at The Queen's Official Birthday?
Anyone looking at scrapping the Reds would be facing political suicide.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
i actually found some figures regarding the red arrows which i thought would make for interesting debate but got roundly criticised for it.... apparently, the costs of such things can not be discussed because too many people have rose (red?!) tinted glasses surrounding these things.... i think they are a wonderful asset and something to be proud of but i do think the tangible benefits one can identify are pretty slim.
i seriously doubt many children look at them and think "i want to do that" then go through the years doing all that they can to make it so, i'm thinking here of education, training etc etc they are pretty much the best of the best, you get chosen, you dont get to choose. sure it gets kids interested in aviation and some may go on to join the aviation industry but i doubt there are many who joined the RAF or any other service, primarily on account of the red arrows.
the value to UK industry and tourism can not be realised in tangible terms. in terms of industry, BAe do the support work that the RAF themselves do not do. in terms of tourism, i would imagine only a small number attend an event purely to see the red arrows and not for other exhibitors. they feature at many events in the country so you dont need to go too far to see them.
thus their purpose is to fly the flag for the UK throughout the world, letting johnny foreigner know that we have the best aerobatic team in the world and giving 9 ruperts something to do for three years
there are many, many defence assets which can be scrapped before we have to resort to losing them...
i actually found some figures regarding the red arrows which i thought would make for interesting debate but got roundly criticised for it.... apparently, the costs of such things can not be discussed because too many people have rose (red?!) tinted glasses surrounding these things.... i think they are a wonderful asset and something to be proud of but i do think the tangible benefits one can identify are pretty slim.
i seriously doubt many children look at them and think "i want to do that" then go through the years doing all that they can to make it so, i'm thinking here of education, training etc etc they are pretty much the best of the best, you get chosen, you dont get to choose. sure it gets kids interested in aviation and some may go on to join the aviation industry but i doubt there are many who joined the RAF or any other service, primarily on account of the red arrows.
the value to UK industry and tourism can not be realised in tangible terms. in terms of industry, BAe do the support work that the RAF themselves do not do. in terms of tourism, i would imagine only a small number attend an event purely to see the red arrows and not for other exhibitors. they feature at many events in the country so you dont need to go too far to see them.
thus their purpose is to fly the flag for the UK throughout the world, letting johnny foreigner know that we have the best aerobatic team in the world and giving 9 ruperts something to do for three years
there are many, many defence assets which can be scrapped before we have to resort to losing them...
kING AWESOME.BoRED S2upid said:
Are the pilots not active service personel? Im sure a distant memory that they were trainers and had day jobs over and above wowing the crowds of a weekend. I may be wrong.
they are serving pilots, they normally do 2 or 3 years iwth the display team before going back to a front line role. although the website says they are volunteers, and thats strictly true, you do put your name forward, i am led to believe its a case of if you have to ask....
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