HMS Queen Elizabeth
Discussion
Godalmighty83 said:
Would be happier if the outer skin was thicker though, the invincible's were fairly thin skinned and had some issues with light knocks puncturing through.
Utter guesswork here, but if the outer skin is heavy enough to trigger the warhead/missile etc, the second skin only needs to be strong enough to absorb the shrapnel, as it were, rather than the full force of the blast. It is weakened and dissipated.Multi Layer Armour I think
Guesswork here too - but I think the Kinetic Energy of the missile hit is as much of a threat to the ship as the warhead.
AIUI the warhead of the Exocet that hit Sheffield didn't even explode - it was the momentum of the missile and the resultant fire from the missile's unburnt fuel that did the damage.
Sunburn and other Russian anti-ship missiles that the Iranians and others have at their disposal are orders of magnitude heavier and faster than Exocet.
AIUI the warhead of the Exocet that hit Sheffield didn't even explode - it was the momentum of the missile and the resultant fire from the missile's unburnt fuel that did the damage.
Sunburn and other Russian anti-ship missiles that the Iranians and others have at their disposal are orders of magnitude heavier and faster than Exocet.
Interesting documentary about armour piercing shells and suchforth on TV a while back. Extremely interesting in the way the explosive and head of the shell is shaped. There is a copper (I think) core that turns into plasma (I think) and instantly vaporises its way through the armour. Or something like that, it was a while ago I saw it.
It also showed how 'shaped' charges can be made to explode in a particular direction, or make a specific hole in armour plate they are stuck too, without sending a blast in all directions. And how you can engrave a shape, or engrave writing even, in steel plate by moulding the explosive properly. Not at all the sort of thing you expect from explosives.
I'll have to get some Semtex and have a play myself
It also showed how 'shaped' charges can be made to explode in a particular direction, or make a specific hole in armour plate they are stuck too, without sending a blast in all directions. And how you can engrave a shape, or engrave writing even, in steel plate by moulding the explosive properly. Not at all the sort of thing you expect from explosives.
I'll have to get some Semtex and have a play myself
King Herald said:
Interesting documentary about armour piercing shells and suchforth on TV a while back. Extremely interesting in the way the explosive and head of the shell is shaped. There is a copper (I think) core that turns into plasma (I think) and instantly vaporises its way through the armour. Or something like that, it was a while ago I saw it.
It also showed how 'shaped' charges can be made to explode in a particular direction, or make a specific hole in armour plate they are stuck too, without sending a blast in all directions. And how you can engrave a shape, or engrave writing even, in steel plate by moulding the explosive properly. Not at all the sort of thing you expect from explosives.
I'll have to get some Semtex and have a play myself
All that HEAT stuff only goes so far - what you really need is a good long-rod penetrator. Missus.It also showed how 'shaped' charges can be made to explode in a particular direction, or make a specific hole in armour plate they are stuck too, without sending a blast in all directions. And how you can engrave a shape, or engrave writing even, in steel plate by moulding the explosive properly. Not at all the sort of thing you expect from explosives.
I'll have to get some Semtex and have a play myself
I would agree in the vast amount of circumstance, and there are only a few defences.
- Intercept the torp before it hits, very very tricky even if you knew it was coming.
- Move something less important in the way, sucks to be them and again tricky.
- Make your ship big enough to take that energy and remain with enough undamaged rooms to float, even the big yank supercarriers will struggle there.
- Design your ship to take the hit, lots of small rooms and bulkheads that can be sacrificed to that massive amount of energy to prevent it spreading and snapping the ship in two, pure luck and a big ship required.
So no real defence that doesn't rely on pure chance which is why it is so devastating that the RN escort fleet has been butchered and our air surveillance systems have been pretty much culled. I think its fairly safe to say that anywhere one of these carriers goes an Astute will be underneath it.
- Intercept the torp before it hits, very very tricky even if you knew it was coming.
- Move something less important in the way, sucks to be them and again tricky.
- Make your ship big enough to take that energy and remain with enough undamaged rooms to float, even the big yank supercarriers will struggle there.
- Design your ship to take the hit, lots of small rooms and bulkheads that can be sacrificed to that massive amount of energy to prevent it spreading and snapping the ship in two, pure luck and a big ship required.
So no real defence that doesn't rely on pure chance which is why it is so devastating that the RN escort fleet has been butchered and our air surveillance systems have been pretty much culled. I think its fairly safe to say that anywhere one of these carriers goes an Astute will be underneath it.
This it what happens when a modern torpedo hits a frigate sized vessel:
http://youtu.be/vYAWrkvyYdc
Basically there are two types of ships, submarines & targets
http://youtu.be/vYAWrkvyYdc
Basically there are two types of ships, submarines & targets
MBBlat said:
This it what happens when a modern torpedo hits a frigate sized vessel:
http://youtu.be/vYAWrkvyYdc
Basically there are two types of ships, submarines & targets
Modern? That video is ancient!http://youtu.be/vYAWrkvyYdc
Basically there are two types of ships, submarines & targets
Anyone know much about her layout?
Will there be two ring/gallery decks like 2 and 5 in an Invince?
Wardroom still back aft and down like other UK carriers. I hope it will be a 2 room layout still.
On the pics you can see the stores racks already in place in the hangar. Is that the height of the hangar, or will there be a 2 deck with accomodation and spaces above?
Nice to see a nice broad hangar, as opposed to the CVS.
Will there be two ring/gallery decks like 2 and 5 in an Invince?
Wardroom still back aft and down like other UK carriers. I hope it will be a 2 room layout still.
On the pics you can see the stores racks already in place in the hangar. Is that the height of the hangar, or will there be a 2 deck with accomodation and spaces above?
Nice to see a nice broad hangar, as opposed to the CVS.
wildcat45 said:
Nice to see a nice broad hangar, as opposed to the CVS.
Benefits of a much wider ship and the main turbines being 'disconnected' so no air/exhaust systems cutting the size of the hanger like a corset, on the other hand there needs to be plenty of room due to ever growing jets taking up even more room then the little old harrier.As to your other points I don't think that much internal detail has been revealed yet, there have been a few internal cutaway diagrams but iam unsure of their accuracy and they typically only covered the simple bits 'here be the hanger, where the planes sleep'.
I guess I shall have to wait for my first invitation to look round her when she is built.
Love the Invince's to bits, but their history - evolving from a CAH - made some silly design errors. OCEAN's diesel plant makes for a much better shaped hangar. Though I love the scissor lifts, again Ocean's canterlever and cog lifts are just so simple. The lift holes intruding into the runway, fine for helos, bad for harriers. The narrow island with that silly narrow walkway near the heads in 1L.
I just hope QE has a bit of character about her. Wardroom piano, lots of silverware, a bit of wood here and there.
I know she's a fighting ship, and thats the prime purpous, but I hope people will enjoy living in her.
Love the Invince's to bits, but their history - evolving from a CAH - made some silly design errors. OCEAN's diesel plant makes for a much better shaped hangar. Though I love the scissor lifts, again Ocean's canterlever and cog lifts are just so simple. The lift holes intruding into the runway, fine for helos, bad for harriers. The narrow island with that silly narrow walkway near the heads in 1L.
I just hope QE has a bit of character about her. Wardroom piano, lots of silverware, a bit of wood here and there.
I know she's a fighting ship, and thats the prime purpous, but I hope people will enjoy living in her.
Accommodation for the lower ranks doesn't appear too bad and the size of ship with its relatively low crew count should keep things from getting too crowded, should be better then just about anything else the navy has made.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/qeclasscarriers/78237...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/qeclasscarriers/78237...
Godalmighty83 said:
I would agree in the vast amount of circumstance, and there are only a few defences.
- Intercept the torp before it hits, very very tricky even if you knew it was coming.
- Move something less important in the way, sucks to be them and again tricky.
- Make your ship big enough to take that energy and remain with enough undamaged rooms to float, even the big yank supercarriers will struggle there.
- Design your ship to take the hit, lots of small rooms and bulkheads that can be sacrificed to that massive amount of energy to prevent it spreading and snapping the ship in two, pure luck and a big ship required.
So no real defence that doesn't rely on pure chance which is why it is so devastating that the RN escort fleet has been butchered and our air surveillance systems have been pretty much culled. I think its fairly safe to say that anywhere one of these carriers goes an Astute will be underneath it.
You missed the most common solution, convince the torpedo to go somewhere else than you aircraft carrier. There are plenty of solution from curtains of bubbles to dynamic noise makers.- Intercept the torp before it hits, very very tricky even if you knew it was coming.
- Move something less important in the way, sucks to be them and again tricky.
- Make your ship big enough to take that energy and remain with enough undamaged rooms to float, even the big yank supercarriers will struggle there.
- Design your ship to take the hit, lots of small rooms and bulkheads that can be sacrificed to that massive amount of energy to prevent it spreading and snapping the ship in two, pure luck and a big ship required.
So no real defence that doesn't rely on pure chance which is why it is so devastating that the RN escort fleet has been butchered and our air surveillance systems have been pretty much culled. I think its fairly safe to say that anywhere one of these carriers goes an Astute will be underneath it.
What the CVF will have fitted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSTD
Well iam a few hours late but LB04 arrived from its southern tour and will hopefully be joining the front end to constitute 'most' of a carrier early next year.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/qeclasscarriers/81748...
Expect the Babcock workers to burn off the BAE banner within 3 or 4 seconds of opening the gates tomorrow.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/qeclasscarriers/81748...
Expect the Babcock workers to burn off the BAE banner within 3 or 4 seconds of opening the gates tomorrow.
wildcat45 said:
Anyone know much about her layout?
Will there be two ring/gallery decks like 2 and 5 in an Invince?
Wardroom still back aft and down like other UK carriers. I hope it will be a 2 room layout still.
On the pics you can see the stores racks already in place in the hangar. Is that the height of the hangar, or will there be a 2 deck with accomodation and spaces above?
Nice to see a nice broad hangar, as opposed to the CVS.
Some detail in here:Will there be two ring/gallery decks like 2 and 5 in an Invince?
Wardroom still back aft and down like other UK carriers. I hope it will be a 2 room layout still.
On the pics you can see the stores racks already in place in the hangar. Is that the height of the hangar, or will there be a 2 deck with accomodation and spaces above?
Nice to see a nice broad hangar, as opposed to the CVS.
http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1107/25_168...
Looks like your hopes will be fulfilled.
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