HMS Queen Elizabeth

[Trevatanus]

So she is off the US to embark F35's then.
I know the in-service date is 2020, but presumably, if the st hit the fan, we could start using her sooner, or not?

[aeropilot]

Trevatanus said:

So she is off the US to embark F35's then.

Not many F-35's to embark as they've all been flown over to UK, 5 arrived about a month ago, and another 5 arrived a few weeks back.

I think that just leaves the 4 or so UK test flying/development machines in the USA, which will probably be used for the trials while she's over there.

[DMN]

She's off to train with the USMC B's as they are further down the road than we are with using them on ships.

I think.

[AshVX220]

DMN said:

She's off to train with the USMC B's as they are further down the road than we are with using them on ships.

I think.

Correct.

[Munter]

Trevatanus said:

So she is off the US to embark F35's then.
I know the in-service date is 2020, but presumably, if the st hit the fan, we could start using her sooner, or not?

That would depend on the consistency of the st and the size of the turbine.

If it's bad enough we all get a uniform and a sharpend coxes pippin to defend the nation.

[Z06George]

AshVX220 said:

DMN said:

She's off to train with the USMC B's as they are further down the road than we are with using them on ships.

I think.

Correct.

The ones we've taken delivery of are RAF ones right? Any idea when the RN start getting theirs if this training is done with USMC aircraft?

[Z06George]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

I think they routinely replace the wing shoulders at shorter intervals.

Average life for that on a Herc is around 20 years - the RAF got it's first Hercs in 1967 and were replacing the shoulder joints for the later H model style in the mid 1980s.

The J models, owing to the way we hammered them (coupled with the fact that in the early days they didn't carry the external tanks = no wing bending relief) were needing replacements in about 10 years.

Makes sense, cheers for the info.

[ninja-lewis]

Z06George said:

AshVX220 said:

DMN said:

She's off to train with the USMC B's as they are further down the road than we are with using them on ships.

I think.

Correct.

The ones we've taken delivery of are RAF ones right? Any idea when the RN start getting theirs if this training is done with USMC aircraft?

There's no RAF/RN ones as such. Just a joint pool split across squadrons that will be jointly manned by both RAF and FAA personnel.

The trials will use instrumented test aircraft. The UK has 4 of these at Edwards AFB in California. These will remain there long term as our contribution to the F-35 Integrated Test Force (both as part of bringing the F-35 into service and testing future upgrades/new weapons). The test programme uses a pool of aircraft with tasks allocated to available personnel and aircraft e.g. a USN pilot in a USMC F-35B might be tasked to test carriage of a UK weapon.

As the carrier trials are taking place off the east seaboard, USMC instrument test aircraft from Paxutent River will be used. Less distruptive to the test programme than flying across the country just to use UK aircraft.

FAA and RAF test pilots will be flying them although they'll probably be some USMC and civilian test pilots involved as well.

[donutsina911]

Z06George said:

The ones we've taken delivery of are RAF ones right? Any idea when the RN start getting theirs if this training is done with USMC aircraft?

809 squadron stands up in 2023. Both 809 (RN) and 617 (RAF) will have aviators and ground crew from both services and will be joint assets, based at RAF Marham when not embarked. A little under half of current F35 pilots are RN. IIRC first deployment ‘in anger’ with jets will be a mix of UK wafus of both flavours and USMC F35s

[Cold]

As posted she leaves Saturday evening for an 11 week stint at sea with approximately 1500 personnel on board (800 crew)
The first week or so will be spent around UK waters, liaising with RFA Tiderace and HMS Monmouth. She'll be visited by a handful of Merlins (Mk2 and Mk4) along with collecting 70 marines before heading across the pond to the east coast of the USA for Westland 18.

Towards the mid/end of September the first F35B will land on deck. There will be four aircraft in total taking part in the trials. Three Brit jets and one USA jet. The four pilots are a Royal Navy Commander, a Squadron Leader from the RAF and one civilian test pilot. They will be joined by a Major from the US Marine Corps.
Over 500 landings/takeoffs are planned and the ship will be awash with 200 supporting staff, including pilots, engineers, maintainers and data analysts who will be studying all aspects of the trials.
The official line is that it will "almost certainly" be a Brit pilot who makes the first landing.

Operational testing of the now UK based aircraft will happen next year with the first operational deployment pencilled in for 2021 (premature Armageddon notwithstanding).

[ecsrobin]

She already has 3 merlins in the hangar that landed on at the beginning of the week along with quad bikes from the marines.

[Scrump]

Cold said:

...
Over 500 landings/takeoffs are planned and the ship will be awash with 200 supporting staff, including pilots, engineers, maintainers and data analysts who will be studying all aspects of the trials.

It has been confirmed that at least one of those engineers will be from my employer, the lucky git. I can try to get myself on the team but there is already a long queue.

[mikal83]

Cold said:

As posted she leaves Saturday evening for an 11 week stint at sea with approximately 1500 personnel on board (800 crew)
The first week or so will be spent around UK waters, liaising with RFA Tiderace and HMS Monmouth. She'll be visited by a handful of Merlins (Mk2 and Mk4) along with collecting 70 marines before heading across the pond to the east coast of the USA for Westland 18.

Towards the mid/end of September the first F35B will land on deck. There will be four aircraft in total taking part in the trials. Three Brit jets and one USA jet. The four pilots are a Royal Navy Commander, a Squadron Leader from the RAF and one civilian test pilot. They will be joined by a Major from the US Marine Corps.
Over 500 landings/takeoffs are planned and the ship will be awash with 200 supporting staff, including pilots, engineers, maintainers and data analysts who will be studying all aspects of the trials.
The official line is that it will "almost certainly" be a Brit pilot who makes the first landing.

Operational testing of the now UK based aircraft will happen next year with the first operational deployment pencilled in for 2021 (premature Armageddon notwithstanding).

And you just know the crabs are busting a gut to be the first

[Kccv23highliftcam]

ninja-lewis said:

Z06George said:

AshVX220 said:

DMN said:

She's off to train with the USMC B's as they are further down the road than we are with using them on ships.

I think.

Correct.

The ones we've taken delivery of are RAF ones right? Any idea when the RN start getting theirs if this training is done with USMC aircraft?

There's no RAF/RN ones as such. Just a joint pool split across squadrons that will be jointly manned by both RAF and FAA personnel.

The trials will use instrumented test aircraft. The UK has 4 of these at Edwards AFB in California. These will remain there long term as our contribution to the F-35 Integrated Test Force (both as part of bringing the F-35 into service and testing future upgrades/new weapons). The test programme uses a pool of aircraft with tasks allocated to available personnel and aircraft e.g. a USN pilot in a USMC F-35B might be tasked to test carriage of a UK weapon.

As the carrier trials are taking place off the east seaboard, USMC instrument test aircraft from Paxutent River will be used. Less distruptive to the test programme than flying across the country just to use UK aircraft.

FAA and RAF test pilots will be flying them although they'll probably be some USMC and civilian test pilots involved as well.

Oddly, across on pprunne, we were categorically told that they would be on ops the day after delivery!

Now I think we can forgive some "enthusiasm".

Even so, the above statement blends seamlessly into the corporate image of the program, which is far, far from the reality of the situation.

"some of the military’s oldest F-35s, aircraft availability is suffering as planes sit waiting for spare parts and for key hardware and software modifications."

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/06/01/some-of...

Guess what F35B's we are getting??





Red columns tells the shocking truth about the UK's F35 buy and lack of capabilities...

Even the Yanks are breaking cover now...an example of the deceptions used to justify the programme??

Ref.
https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/do...


"F-35 Joint Strike Fighter
• Extends the prohibition on retirement of the A-10 until F-35 Joint Strike Fighter initial operational testing (IOT&E) and
evaluation is completed. The NDAA also ensures the F-35 IOT&E includes comparison testing and detailed assessment
of A-10 and F-35A abilities to conduct close air support, combat search and rescue, and airborne forward air controller
missions.
Requires F-35 Follow-on Modernization program, which is estimated to cost more than $8 billion for the first block
upgrade, to be treated as a separate major defense acquisition program (MDAP). Given the Department of Defense’s __poor
track record on upgrade programs__ like this one, a separate program will enable rigorous oversight by the Congress to
protect taxpayers.


Disbands F-35 Joint Program Office following the full rate production decision scheduled for April 2019 and devolves
responsibilities to Departments of the Navy and the Air Force. Despite aspirations for a joint aircraft, the F-35A, F-35B, and
F-35C are essentially three distinct aircraft, with significantly different missions and capability requirements. Devolving
this program to the services will help ensure the proper alignment of responsibility and accountability the F-35 program
needs and has too often lacked.

Edited by Kccv23highliftcam on Saturday 18th August 11:31

[ecsrobin]

Kccv23highliftcam said:

Oddly, across on pprunne, we were categorically told that they would be on ops the day after delivery!

Now I think we can forgive some "enthusiasm".

Even so, the above statement blends seamlessly into the corporate image of the program, which is far, far from the reality of the situation.

"some of the military’s oldest F-35s, aircraft availability is suffering as planes sit waiting for spare parts and for key hardware and software modifications."

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/06/01/some-of...

Guess what F35B's we are getting??








Red columns tells the shocking truth about the UK's F35 buy and lack of capabilities...

I’m sure you post this all the time? That is the standard thing for aircraft procurement. Typhoon isn’t at its full capability yet as I don’t believe it’s operational with storm shadow.

[Kccv23highliftcam]

ecsrobin said:

I’m sure you post this all the time? That is the standard thing for aircraft procurement. Typhoon isn’t at its full capability yet as I don’t believe it’s operational with storm shadow.

Interesting comparison you have made between BAe and LM there. I'm sure they will be overjoyed.

Typhoon is at full capability. F35 is not. Adding a weapon clearance is something different to an estimated [and we know what happens to those ]
$8 billion rebuild program.


However I feel it only fair to give you right of reply.

Do you believe accepting [to all extents and purposes] non operational /sub standard equipment is the way the Government should really be doing business? Austerity and all that.

?

[aeropilot]

ecsrobin said:

Typhoon isn’t at its full capability yet as I don’t believe it’s operational with storm shadow.

Hardly a fair comparison, given that A-G mission fit was a UK only requirement, which had to take a back seat until all the other partners A-A development and service delivery took priority so our A-G development is ours only and didn't really start until much later in the program and we're paying for all of it as well.

[ecsrobin]

Kccv23highliftcam said:

Interesting comparison you have made between BAe and LM there. I'm sure they will be overjoyed.

Typhoon is at full capability. F35 is not. Adding a weapon clearance is something different to an estimated [and we know what happens to those ]
$8 billion rebuild program.


However I feel it only fair to give you right of reply.

Do you believe accepting [to all extents and purposes] non operational /sub standard equipment is the way the Government should really be doing business? Austerity and all that.

?

I’ll counter your question with do you work for BAe?

[220]

ecsrobin said:

Kccv23highliftcam said:

Oddly, across on pprunne, we were categorically told that they would be on ops the day after delivery!

Now I think we can forgive some "enthusiasm".

Even so, the above statement blends seamlessly into the corporate image of the program, which is far, far from the reality of the situation.

"some of the military’s oldest F-35s, aircraft availability is suffering as planes sit waiting for spare parts and for key hardware and software modifications."

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/06/01/some-of...

Guess what F35B's we are getting??








Red columns tells the shocking truth about the UK's F35 buy and lack of capabilities...

I’m sure you post this all the time? That is the standard thing for aircraft procurement. Typhoon isn’t at its full capability yet as I don’t believe it’s operational with storm shadow.

Yep he seems too, a lot of hate for the F35. Its funny that the US aircraft aren't on that list. Surely most of those in the red column are 'test' aircraft so without them there wouldnt be a blue column.

[Kccv23highliftcam]

220 said:

ecsrobin said:

Kccv23highliftcam said:

Oddly, across on pprunne, we were categorically told that they would be on ops the day after delivery!

Now I think we can forgive some "enthusiasm".

Even so, the above statement blends seamlessly into the corporate image of the program, which is far, far from the reality of the situation.

"some of the military’s oldest F-35s, aircraft availability is suffering as planes sit waiting for spare parts and for key hardware and software modifications."

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/06/01/some-of...

Guess what F35B's we are getting??








Red columns tells the shocking truth about the UK's F35 buy and lack of capabilities...

I’m sure you post this all the time? That is the standard thing for aircraft procurement. Typhoon isn’t at its full capability yet as I don’t believe it’s operational with storm shadow.

Yep he seems too, a lot of hate for the F35. Its funny that the US aircraft aren't on that list. Surely most of those in the red column are 'test' aircraft so without them there wouldnt be a blue column.

300 test aircraft then

Someone sure fked up there.