HMS Queen Elizabeth
Discussion
Cold said:
Nice little send off this evening. Large crowd turnout along the Hot Walls, the Round Tower and Gunwharf, all in good spirits.
HMS QE slid out of the harbour rather serenely with the crew standing to attention, the fog horn sounding and three extra rotaries on display. The band was playing on deck loud enough to be heard from the shore, and hopefully the crew could hear the public's cheers and applause from where they were.
I wish I could stop thinking of it as a sitting duck HMS QE slid out of the harbour rather serenely with the crew standing to attention, the fog horn sounding and three extra rotaries on display. The band was playing on deck loud enough to be heard from the shore, and hopefully the crew could hear the public's cheers and applause from where they were.
What would it take to sink it?
My daughter and I had a day out doing the Portsmouth Historic Dockyard visit last week and spotted ths fabulous looking ship; as an engineer I can't help but marvel at the technical achievement and capability of this ship, but as an ex-Submariner I just see a rather huge, obvious and easy sitting duck.
The Americans have Carrier Groups where a Carrier of this size and importance has a little Fleet of seven or eight other ships around it to protect it, as well as a Submarine to see off the rather obvious threat.
I am rather afraid we don't actually have that many suitable and operational ships, nor a working Submarine, to protect our large Carrier.
The Americans have Carrier Groups where a Carrier of this size and importance has a little Fleet of seven or eight other ships around it to protect it, as well as a Submarine to see off the rather obvious threat.
I am rather afraid we don't actually have that many suitable and operational ships, nor a working Submarine, to protect our large Carrier.
E24man said:
My daughter and I had a day out doing the Portsmouth Historic Dockyard visit last week and spotted ths fabulous looking ship; as an engineer I can't help but marvel at the technical achievement and capability of this ship, but as an ex-Submariner I just see a rather huge, obvious and easy sitting duck.
The Americans have Carrier Groups where a Carrier of this size and importance has a little Fleet of seven or eight other ships around it to protect it, as well as a Submarine to see off the rather obvious threat.
. I am rather afraid we don't actually have that many suitable and operational ships, nor a working Submarine, to protect our large Carrier.
She’ll deploy in anger with enough escorts above and below the water to keep the Akula pictured above honest. Add P8 (2019?) and the Merlins into the mix and she’ll be just fine. Nimrod left a hole in the jigsaw, but we’re not far off having enough quality, if not quantity to keep peer threats at bay in the unlikely event of having to operate alone rather than under the NATO umbrella.The Americans have Carrier Groups where a Carrier of this size and importance has a little Fleet of seven or eight other ships around it to protect it, as well as a Submarine to see off the rather obvious threat.
. I am rather afraid we don't actually have that many suitable and operational ships, nor a working Submarine, to protect our large Carrier.
For now, given Monmouth doesn’t have a tail fitted, I’d be surprised if there’s not an RN SSN getting ready to meet her in the Western Approaches and keep her company for this deployment.
So 9 P8 are going to be able to cover what 40 Nimrods did?
Cloud cuckoo land!
The idea theat the RN has enough blue water assets to protect a carrier is just risible at best, and downright duplicitous at worst.
You're a fishead donuts, tell me why the USN battle groups are so large to protect their strikefleets.
Cloud cuckoo land!
The idea theat the RN has enough blue water assets to protect a carrier is just risible at best, and downright duplicitous at worst.
You're a fishead donuts, tell me why the USN battle groups are so large to protect their strikefleets.
aeropilot said:
mikal83 said:
The Harrier flew around with a lump of concrete in its nose for a while, so no big deal
Tornado F.2, not Harrier.
doing something even a GR4 can't do....
Edited by Kccv23highliftcam on Saturday 18th August 22:04
donutsina911 said:
She’ll deploy in anger with enough escorts above and below the water to keep the Akula pictured above honest. Add P8 (2019?) and the Merlins into the mix and she’ll be just fine. Nimrod left a hole in the jigsaw, but we’re not far off having enough quality, if not quantity to keep peer threats at bay in the unlikely event of having to operate alone rather than under the NATO umbrella.
For now, given Monmouth doesn’t have a tail fitted, I’d be surprised if there’s not an RN SSN getting ready to meet her in the Western Approaches and keep her company for this deployment.
It's good to see such....faith.......For now, given Monmouth doesn’t have a tail fitted, I’d be surprised if there’s not an RN SSN getting ready to meet her in the Western Approaches and keep her company for this deployment.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/contest-to-buil...
Contest to build a ‘budget frigate’ on hold as MoD runs out of funds
Government plans to buy a “budget frigate” within five years have been thrown into chaos after a competition to build the warship was suspended amid a funding crisis. Sources warned last night that the Type 31e frigate may never materialise It is a serious blow for the Royal Navy, which needs at least five of the ships to maintain the size of its surface fleet.
Shipbuilders and yards in the running for the £1.25 billion contract were taken by surprise when the Ministry of Defence announced the freeze on Friday, just as they prepared to finalise their respective ship designs. Defence Equipment and Support, the branch of the MoD in charge of buying kit, claimed that there had not been enough “compliant bids”. Industry insiders disputed this, saying that a failure by Gavin Williamson, the defence secretary, to secure new money by the summer to fund his ambitions for the armed forces had thrown into doubt a range of equipment contracts.
They noted that bidders for the frigate work had been waiting to receive funding from the MoD to start the competitive design phase. This should have happened by May, with initial construction targeted for next spring. Instead there was silence then the freeze. The MoD said that the competition would be restarted soon but sources said that the delay would probably be at least a year, undermining a plan to deliver the first of the new ships by 2023.
Defence experts agreed. “It is cloud-cuckoo-land,” Admiral Lord West of Spithead, a former head of the Royal Navy, said. Francis Tusa, editor of Defence Analysis, said: “It’s impossible.” Paul Beaver, a defence analyst, said: “It has taken three years to get to a point where they appear to need to start again. This is not smart procurement.”......
Aside from the question of funding, it is understood that officials at Defence Equipment and Support were starting to realise that a cheap warship without the array of expensive radars, sensors and weapons would struggle to operate in submarine-infested waters. During Sir Michael Fallon’s time as defence secretary a funding shortage for the equipment programme worsened, scuppering plans to buy a full fleet of 13 more sophisticated but expensive Type 26 frigates Instead he signed off on a 2015 plan to purchase eight Type 26 frigates and five cheaper versions.
A failure by the MoD to secure new warships into service by 2023 will leave the Royal Navy without 13 operational frigates as the ageing Type 23 warships start to be brought out of service.
A spokeswoman for the MoD said: “This is an early contract in a wider procurement process and we will incorporate the lessons learnt and begin again as soon as possible so the programme can continue at pace.”
Now, why have the RN run out of ship money?
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
So 9 P8 are going to be able to cover what 40 Nimrods did?
Cloud cuckoo land!
The idea theat the RN has enough blue water assets to protect a carrier is just risible at best, and downright duplicitous at worst.
You're a fishead donuts, tell me why the USN battle groups are so large to protect their strikefleets.
First, seeing as this is PH and pendantry mattersCloud cuckoo land!
The idea theat the RN has enough blue water assets to protect a carrier is just risible at best, and downright duplicitous at worst.
You're a fishead donuts, tell me why the USN battle groups are so large to protect their strikefleets.
it’s a Carrier Strike Group - strikefleet is an 80’s computer game.
Second, given I’ve deployed with one rather than just guessed about size / capability, I’ll give you a steer - it’s typically half a dozen US DD escorts, plus (usually) a NATO escort in support, plus oilers and SSN.
We rarely operate (anywhere, other than perhaps the South Atlantic) alone, so I’d imagine QE will deploy with a 45, 23, SSN, RFA and two NATO surface combatants. So with respect, your knowledge of the RN’s blue water capability is either guesswork, out of date or your being deliberately difficult / obtuse.
Third, I’ve acknowledged the gap left by Nimrod, but unlike some of the miserable f
kers on this thread, I see the Carrier Strike and F-35 pint as being half full - the P8 is better than nothing. It is, like all air assets, JAWS (just another weapon system) in our layered defence and 9 is better than fkall.In my humble opinion, albeit now outside of the RN, I believe that even in our threadbare state, we are capable of mustering sufficient escorts to deploy globally, with (preferably) and at a push, without our allies. How long could we sustain ops at any kind of intensity is up for debate, but the proof will be in the pudding when she goes east of suez on her first deployment with jets.
johnxjsc1985 said:
A lot of people have far more information than I do on this subject I just hope Whitehall and the Government don't fk this up. How long have they got before its actually ready for active service.
With or without fully capable aircraft. ~k this up. How long have they got before its actually ready for active service.A choice of one actually. See the problem can wee?
~puddle jumpers don't count.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
So 9 P8 are going to be able to cover what 40 Nimrods did?
Cloud cuckoo land!
The idea theat the RN has enough blue water assets to protect a carrier is just risible at best, and downright duplicitous at worst.
You're a fishead donuts, tell me why the USN battle groups are so large to protect their strikefleets.
But we will NEVER have to operate alone! Get on message will ya!Cloud cuckoo land!
The idea theat the RN has enough blue water assets to protect a carrier is just risible at best, and downright duplicitous at worst.
You're a fishead donuts, tell me why the USN battle groups are so large to protect their strikefleets.
Well until the frenchies say farcir ceci pour un jeu de soldats~~~ish...
Kccv23highliftcam said:
It's good to see such....faith.......
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/contest-to-buil...
Contest to build a ‘budget frigate’ on hold as MoD runs out of funds
Government plans to buy a “budget frigate” within five years have been thrown into chaos after a competition to build the warship was suspended amid a funding crisis. Sources warned last night that the Type 31e frigate may never materialise It is a serious blow for the Royal Navy, which needs at least five of the ships to maintain the size of its surface fleet.
Shipbuilders and yards in the running for the £1.25 billion contract were taken by surprise when the Ministry of Defence announced the freeze on Friday, just as they prepared to finalise their respective ship designs. Defence Equipment and Support, the branch of the MoD in charge of buying kit, claimed that there had not been enough “compliant bids”. Industry insiders disputed this, saying that a failure by Gavin Williamson, the defence secretary, to secure new money by the summer to fund his ambitions for the armed forces had thrown into doubt a range of equipment contracts.
They noted that bidders for the frigate work had been waiting to receive funding from the MoD to start the competitive design phase. This should have happened by May, with initial construction targeted for next spring. Instead there was silence then the freeze. The MoD said that the competition would be restarted soon but sources said that the delay would probably be at least a year, undermining a plan to deliver the first of the new ships by 2023.
Defence experts agreed. “It is cloud-cuckoo-land,” Admiral Lord West of Spithead, a former head of the Royal Navy, said. Francis Tusa, editor of Defence Analysis, said: “It’s impossible.” Paul Beaver, a defence analyst, said: “It has taken three years to get to a point where they appear to need to start again. This is not smart procurement.”......
Aside from the question of funding, it is understood that officials at Defence Equipment and Support were starting to realise that a cheap warship without the array of expensive radars, sensors and weapons would struggle to operate in submarine-infested waters. During Sir Michael Fallon’s time as defence secretary a funding shortage for the equipment programme worsened, scuppering plans to buy a full fleet of 13 more sophisticated but expensive Type 26 frigates Instead he signed off on a 2015 plan to purchase eight Type 26 frigates and five cheaper versions.
A failure by the MoD to secure new warships into service by 2023 will leave the Royal Navy without 13 operational frigates as the ageing Type 23 warships start to be brought out of service.
A spokeswoman for the MoD said: “This is an early contract in a wider procurement process and we will incorporate the lessons learnt and begin again as soon as possible so the programme can continue at pace.”
Now, why have the RN run out of ship money?
Good to see you’re sharing out of date news articles. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/contest-to-buil...
Contest to build a ‘budget frigate’ on hold as MoD runs out of funds
Government plans to buy a “budget frigate” within five years have been thrown into chaos after a competition to build the warship was suspended amid a funding crisis. Sources warned last night that the Type 31e frigate may never materialise It is a serious blow for the Royal Navy, which needs at least five of the ships to maintain the size of its surface fleet.
Shipbuilders and yards in the running for the £1.25 billion contract were taken by surprise when the Ministry of Defence announced the freeze on Friday, just as they prepared to finalise their respective ship designs. Defence Equipment and Support, the branch of the MoD in charge of buying kit, claimed that there had not been enough “compliant bids”. Industry insiders disputed this, saying that a failure by Gavin Williamson, the defence secretary, to secure new money by the summer to fund his ambitions for the armed forces had thrown into doubt a range of equipment contracts.
They noted that bidders for the frigate work had been waiting to receive funding from the MoD to start the competitive design phase. This should have happened by May, with initial construction targeted for next spring. Instead there was silence then the freeze. The MoD said that the competition would be restarted soon but sources said that the delay would probably be at least a year, undermining a plan to deliver the first of the new ships by 2023.
Defence experts agreed. “It is cloud-cuckoo-land,” Admiral Lord West of Spithead, a former head of the Royal Navy, said. Francis Tusa, editor of Defence Analysis, said: “It’s impossible.” Paul Beaver, a defence analyst, said: “It has taken three years to get to a point where they appear to need to start again. This is not smart procurement.”......
Aside from the question of funding, it is understood that officials at Defence Equipment and Support were starting to realise that a cheap warship without the array of expensive radars, sensors and weapons would struggle to operate in submarine-infested waters. During Sir Michael Fallon’s time as defence secretary a funding shortage for the equipment programme worsened, scuppering plans to buy a full fleet of 13 more sophisticated but expensive Type 26 frigates Instead he signed off on a 2015 plan to purchase eight Type 26 frigates and five cheaper versions.
A failure by the MoD to secure new warships into service by 2023 will leave the Royal Navy without 13 operational frigates as the ageing Type 23 warships start to be brought out of service.
A spokeswoman for the MoD said: “This is an early contract in a wider procurement process and we will incorporate the lessons learnt and begin again as soon as possible so the programme can continue at pace.”
Now, why have the RN run out of ship money?
https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/type-31e-frigate-...
donutsina911 said:
it’s a Carrier Strike Group - strikefleet is an 80’s computer game.
Yawn. You knowdonutsina911 said:
When exactly that the carriers were part of the Strike Fleets. Stop being obtuse,
Second, given I’ve deployed with one rather than just guessed about size / capability, I’ll give you a steer - it’s typically half a dozen US DD escorts, plus (usually) a NATO escort in support, plus oilers and SSN.
So 6x DD probably Arleigh Burgh. Are you seriously; saying 2x T45 are capable?Second, given I’ve deployed with one rather than just guessed about size / capability, I’ll give you a steer - it’s typically half a dozen US DD escorts, plus (usually) a NATO escort in support, plus oilers and SSN.
donutsina911 said:
We rarely operate (anywhere, other than perhaps the South Atlantic) alone, so I’d imagine QE will deploy with a 45, 23, SSN, RFA and two NATO surface combatants. So with respect, your knowledge of the RN’s blue water capability is either guesswork, out of date or your being deliberately difficult / obtuse.
Please aswer above.donutsina911 said:
Third, I’ve acknowledged the gap left by Nimrod, but unlike some of the miserable fkers on this thread, I see the Carrier Strike and F-35 pint as being half full - the P8 is better than nothing. It is, like all air assets, JAWS (just another weapon system) in our layered defence and 9 is better than fkall.
So you accept what we did with Nimrod yet you think fkers on this thread, I see the Carrier Strike and F-35 pint as being half full - the P8 is better than nothing. It is, like all air assets, JAWS (just another weapon system) in our layered defence and 9 is better than fkall.k all capability is what will equal what we had. Yeah right,GG15G, you’ve a habit of being a pedant on PH in general, and this thread in particular, so if you live by the sword and all that...
Anyway, your quoting has gone to ratst so in the interests of brevity, I’ll answer your two questions directly.
In my humble opinion, a theoretical UK carrier strike deployment with two T45s and a couple of T23s with tails offers a broader mix of capability than the laser like AAW / ASuW focus of US Arleigh Burke and Ticonderoga.
Is 6 DDG ‘better’ or more capable than 2 DD and 2 FF from the RN, who fking knows - it depends on the area of operations, threat, weather and price of fish. It’s a daft question to ask and reinforces my comment earlier that you litterally know bugger all about how the RN goes about its business.
Your last comment around Nimrod makes zero sense - you’ve made up words I simply didn’t say. My original observation was that nimrod going left a hole in our collective capability. P8 offers something rather than nothing. Is is ideal? No. Is it better than fkall? Yes. I think we agree on that, but you seem inclined to put words into my mouth.
For what it’s worth, I see QE operating in areas where the impact of Nimrod would be marginal in the grand scheme of things anyway. That’s not to say that’s where she should be given what I believe to be our most pressing threats, nor to take anything away from Nimrod - just my tuppence.
Anyway, your quoting has gone to rats
t so in the interests of brevity, I’ll answer your two questions directly.In my humble opinion, a theoretical UK carrier strike deployment with two T45s and a couple of T23s with tails offers a broader mix of capability than the laser like AAW / ASuW focus of US Arleigh Burke and Ticonderoga.
Is 6 DDG ‘better’ or more capable than 2 DD and 2 FF from the RN, who f
king knows - it depends on the area of operations, threat, weather and price of fish. It’s a daft question to ask and reinforces my comment earlier that you litterally know bugger all about how the RN goes about its business.Your last comment around Nimrod makes zero sense - you’ve made up words I simply didn’t say. My original observation was that nimrod going left a hole in our collective capability. P8 offers something rather than nothing. Is is ideal? No. Is it better than f
kall? Yes. I think we agree on that, but you seem inclined to put words into my mouth.For what it’s worth, I see QE operating in areas where the impact of Nimrod would be marginal in the grand scheme of things anyway. That’s not to say that’s where she should be given what I believe to be our most pressing threats, nor to take anything away from Nimrod - just my tuppence.
saaby93 said:
ok suppose there was a war tomorrow ( or today) similar to the falklands
What equivalent to Harriers do we have, and what could be brought out of mothballs like the Vulcans
Luckily, the argentinians dont have the capability eitherWhat equivalent to Harriers do we have, and what could be brought out of mothballs like the Vulcans
https://www.naval-technology.com/features/featuref...
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
So 9 P8 are going to be able to cover what 40 Nimrods did?
Cloud cuckoo land!
The idea theat the RN has enough blue water assets to protect a carrier is just risible at best, and downright duplicitous at worst.
You're a fishead donuts, tell me why the USN battle groups are so large to protect their strikefleets.
Depends who the enemy is.Cloud cuckoo land!
The idea theat the RN has enough blue water assets to protect a carrier is just risible at best, and downright duplicitous at worst.
You're a fishead donuts, tell me why the USN battle groups are so large to protect their strikefleets.
williamp said:
saaby93 said:
ok suppose there was a war tomorrow ( or today) similar to the falklands
What equivalent to Harriers do we have, and what could be brought out of mothballs like the Vulcans
Luckily, the argentinians dont have the capability eitherWhat equivalent to Harriers do we have, and what could be brought out of mothballs like the Vulcans
https://www.naval-technology.com/features/featuref...
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