Commercial yachties...advice please!
Discussion
Without going into too much detail, a number of things are pointing me towards having a few years living the dream and pursuing a career in yachting, ideally with the other half. I know there are a few professional yachties on PH, so I just wanted some "real world" advice.
We are both mid 30s professionals, no kids, limited ties/commitments (could sell the car, rent the house) and keen sailors with lots of experience (we have our own boat). I've had a look at a few of the career guides online, however many are circulated by sailing schools who will obviously have a vested interest. Any advice on the industry would be gratefully accepted, however I have the following questions for starters...
Career path/salary...there seems to be a huge gulf between salaries on superyachts and smaller yachts. I'd like to get into a skipper role ASAP, on something fairly modest, but earning at least enough to justify the fairly hefty training investment! What's the best route in as a couple?
Training...I guess YM Commercial to start with...would that get me work? The investment involved for the ocean ticket is pretty hefty...how important is it if I was just planning on trying to sail in the Caribbean or med? Or does the extra investment on the training command much better salaries?
Training provider...ideally I'd like to find a provider who might offer a more tailored approach, taking into account my existing total mileage (4000 odd) plus experience as skipper on my own boat and existing qualifications. I've only got DS theory, however for leisure use I've always been a bit skeptical of the RYA tickets, basing my judgements on someones experience and ability rather than bits of paper. Any recommendations for a school who might be a bit more realistic and flexible?
Future...realistically, being in our mid 30s, kids may beckon and we wouldn't do this forever. Are potential yachts/employers at the lower end more interested in younger people who may make it their career forever? I'm not ruling anything out, but I'd be a bit miffed to pack it all in, make the time and money investment and then struggle for suitable roles, or is a bit more maturity something that is looked for in the industry? I've heard some rumours that slightly older stable couples with the right outlook are actually in high demand...is this correct?
Lastly, any regrets for those who have done it? Does it live up to expectations? Or is it going like other careers such as being a pilot where the big salaries or yesterday have gone and it's much more of a "pyramid" set up? For us, this isn't about making loads of money or for that matter putting our feet up...it's about taking a few years out to see a bit of the world via a medium we love, and also to throw ourselves into it professionally and purposefully, whilst not ending up blowing a load of cash in qualifications that we would never see a proper return on.
Thanks!
We are both mid 30s professionals, no kids, limited ties/commitments (could sell the car, rent the house) and keen sailors with lots of experience (we have our own boat). I've had a look at a few of the career guides online, however many are circulated by sailing schools who will obviously have a vested interest. Any advice on the industry would be gratefully accepted, however I have the following questions for starters...
Career path/salary...there seems to be a huge gulf between salaries on superyachts and smaller yachts. I'd like to get into a skipper role ASAP, on something fairly modest, but earning at least enough to justify the fairly hefty training investment! What's the best route in as a couple?
Training...I guess YM Commercial to start with...would that get me work? The investment involved for the ocean ticket is pretty hefty...how important is it if I was just planning on trying to sail in the Caribbean or med? Or does the extra investment on the training command much better salaries?
Training provider...ideally I'd like to find a provider who might offer a more tailored approach, taking into account my existing total mileage (4000 odd) plus experience as skipper on my own boat and existing qualifications. I've only got DS theory, however for leisure use I've always been a bit skeptical of the RYA tickets, basing my judgements on someones experience and ability rather than bits of paper. Any recommendations for a school who might be a bit more realistic and flexible?
Future...realistically, being in our mid 30s, kids may beckon and we wouldn't do this forever. Are potential yachts/employers at the lower end more interested in younger people who may make it their career forever? I'm not ruling anything out, but I'd be a bit miffed to pack it all in, make the time and money investment and then struggle for suitable roles, or is a bit more maturity something that is looked for in the industry? I've heard some rumours that slightly older stable couples with the right outlook are actually in high demand...is this correct?
Lastly, any regrets for those who have done it? Does it live up to expectations? Or is it going like other careers such as being a pilot where the big salaries or yesterday have gone and it's much more of a "pyramid" set up? For us, this isn't about making loads of money or for that matter putting our feet up...it's about taking a few years out to see a bit of the world via a medium we love, and also to throw ourselves into it professionally and purposefully, whilst not ending up blowing a load of cash in qualifications that we would never see a proper return on.
Thanks!
Good for you - I wish more people would realise the opportunities...
In my experience, couples are usually preferred as it means that there's more work done and less flirting. Best route is to run a small, plastic MY or SY, with your other half working as deckie/stew/chef, and you working as captain/engineer. Start modest, and work your way up as mileage, training and tickets allow. Look for work in the Med and start building up your contacts in Palma or Antibes. Your partner's cooking skills and wine knowledge must be very good.
YM Commercial is a good start, and will get you work soon enough. You may like to consider a couples role on a much larger vessel - but you would be starting as deckhand and stew on around EUR 2,500 - 3,000 per month each. But this is generally tax and expenses-free.
I know quite a few couples who have based themselves in Palma - having children along the way, too, as they're become permanent expats running permanently locally-based boats.
While there are certainly good salaries still on offer, you will have to be realistic when getting a foot in the door. If you have integrity, common sense and the ability to work hard, you're already ahead of most in the industry...
In my experience, couples are usually preferred as it means that there's more work done and less flirting. Best route is to run a small, plastic MY or SY, with your other half working as deckie/stew/chef, and you working as captain/engineer. Start modest, and work your way up as mileage, training and tickets allow. Look for work in the Med and start building up your contacts in Palma or Antibes. Your partner's cooking skills and wine knowledge must be very good.
YM Commercial is a good start, and will get you work soon enough. You may like to consider a couples role on a much larger vessel - but you would be starting as deckhand and stew on around EUR 2,500 - 3,000 per month each. But this is generally tax and expenses-free.
I know quite a few couples who have based themselves in Palma - having children along the way, too, as they're become permanent expats running permanently locally-based boats.
While there are certainly good salaries still on offer, you will have to be realistic when getting a foot in the door. If you have integrity, common sense and the ability to work hard, you're already ahead of most in the industry...
The first thing I would state is that Yachting is a hospitality industry first and foremost. Keeping guests and crew safe & happy is job one. Training will get you the right paperwork to start with but getting on with people is important.
In the last 25 years I've seen crew with fantastic qualifications looking for work but with the attitude of an angry bulldog with a sore scrotum. They didn't last 5 minutes.
The second thing is work ethic. Clean, clean and clean it again, even when it's already clean. Most Owners have invested a lot of money in their big extravagance and need to know it will be looked after and working in the way it should. There is nothing more infuriating than a breakdown of a system for guests, who have made time in their busy lives to spend time with their family and friends on the boat. The more work you do on the systems yourself, the more you will be able to get it working again.
Get a job, any job, that will get you known within the community. Daywork, day charters and boatshows will get your face known. Agents, Owners and Skippers all seem to know who is a good 'un and word will spread.
Yes, get yourself to Antibes or Palma. In the Caribbean there is Antigua and St.Maarten in the winter. The agencies are good to start with but since 1986 I've only ever got one job through them, the rest has been word of mouth.
In the last 25 years I've seen crew with fantastic qualifications looking for work but with the attitude of an angry bulldog with a sore scrotum. They didn't last 5 minutes.
The second thing is work ethic. Clean, clean and clean it again, even when it's already clean. Most Owners have invested a lot of money in their big extravagance and need to know it will be looked after and working in the way it should. There is nothing more infuriating than a breakdown of a system for guests, who have made time in their busy lives to spend time with their family and friends on the boat. The more work you do on the systems yourself, the more you will be able to get it working again.
Get a job, any job, that will get you known within the community. Daywork, day charters and boatshows will get your face known. Agents, Owners and Skippers all seem to know who is a good 'un and word will spread.
Yes, get yourself to Antibes or Palma. In the Caribbean there is Antigua and St.Maarten in the winter. The agencies are good to start with but since 1986 I've only ever got one job through them, the rest has been word of mouth.
Firstly it's a very competive business with a lot of people chasing a smallish number of jobs, however good people with good qualifications always find work.
The key to getting through the door is taking whatever jobs for whatever money, sometimes basically food and board to start with. Have seen too many people try to get into the business who then say if I'm not skipper I'm not doing it. Someone is going to hand over a very valuable asset to you to run and you have to be realistic and expect them to want proof of your experience and references.
Once you've done a season both summer in the med and winter in the Caribbean you should have some good contacts and the following season it will all get easier but the first year is tough for people but clears out those who aren't really up for it or have the wrong attitude. Just keep in mind when guests are on board you're on 24/7 duty.
A good way to get miles and experience as well as references is doing deliveries with people like PYD but don't expect much cash, advantage is you can meet lots of owners that way as well.
Qualifications are a must and anything over 60 miles offshore you're going to need your Ocean and a lot of yachts do the Atlantic circuit each year so bear that in mind. Minimum you'll need commercial yacht master and your STCW sorted enforce trying for jobs and your other half should get some catering qualifications as well as her STCW then between you then you'd be very attractive to owners. I know there is a shortage of couples at the moment happy to run a 60ish footer like Oysters and Discoveries. It hard work but a fun lifestyle, I've not seen a drop of rain for the last three months now ;-)
The key to getting through the door is taking whatever jobs for whatever money, sometimes basically food and board to start with. Have seen too many people try to get into the business who then say if I'm not skipper I'm not doing it. Someone is going to hand over a very valuable asset to you to run and you have to be realistic and expect them to want proof of your experience and references.
Once you've done a season both summer in the med and winter in the Caribbean you should have some good contacts and the following season it will all get easier but the first year is tough for people but clears out those who aren't really up for it or have the wrong attitude. Just keep in mind when guests are on board you're on 24/7 duty.
A good way to get miles and experience as well as references is doing deliveries with people like PYD but don't expect much cash, advantage is you can meet lots of owners that way as well.
Qualifications are a must and anything over 60 miles offshore you're going to need your Ocean and a lot of yachts do the Atlantic circuit each year so bear that in mind. Minimum you'll need commercial yacht master and your STCW sorted enforce trying for jobs and your other half should get some catering qualifications as well as her STCW then between you then you'd be very attractive to owners. I know there is a shortage of couples at the moment happy to run a 60ish footer like Oysters and Discoveries. It hard work but a fun lifestyle, I've not seen a drop of rain for the last three months now ;-)
Sorry for the slow response but great advice guys, thank you very much. Feelers are still out, discussions to be had, but very interested. Speedyellow, your thing about the 50-60' mark being short of couple crews...would you say in today's market it would be feasible to perhaps do a few months of lower end work before an for something like that as skipper and stew? TBH I'd be more than happy on something pretty modest (ha...Discovery...modest!) or do you really need the full year?
Is there a good time of year to be out there doing he networking? I guess for me timing is everything...it looks like a lot of the UK schools tend to start courses in Jan or July so I might have missed it for this year anyway. Perhaps I need to be looking at getting the ticket in Jan 2013 and heading to the med mid summer?
Thanks again!
Is there a good time of year to be out there doing he networking? I guess for me timing is everything...it looks like a lot of the UK schools tend to start courses in Jan or July so I might have missed it for this year anyway. Perhaps I need to be looking at getting the ticket in Jan 2013 and heading to the med mid summer?
Thanks again!
Can't offer much practical advice, I work the bigger stuff, and came from white ships, so have never walked a dock in my life. However, it is a good life, especially once established. I have an equal rotational job and a family at home.
One tip though, the amount of yacht CVs I receive which could just be photocopies of a 'master yachtie CV' is unreal, try to be original, and stay away from the "I love to sail/surf/kite/dive" crap, zzzzzzzzz.
Oh, and be prepared to work with some of the best paid stupid people this side of football.
Good luck!
One tip though, the amount of yacht CVs I receive which could just be photocopies of a 'master yachtie CV' is unreal, try to be original, and stay away from the "I love to sail/surf/kite/dive" crap, zzzzzzzzz.
Oh, and be prepared to work with some of the best paid stupid people this side of football.
Good luck!
Hard drive, sadly one year is really a minimum, it's basically down to you needing the miles on commercially run boats and experience in all the various ports.
When chartering in the Caribbean for instance if you've never been to the islands, don't know the right bays, best times and places for check in and out, where you can get decent quality food and what places are good for restaurants bars you're going to be a bit stuck. Same to a lesser degree in the med. knowing your way around as well as knowing all the yacht systems is very important.
You're going to learn how to rebuild every system on the boats and experience is key to this. Worth it but too many people jump in thinking its just the qyalification that are important forgetting you also need to know where is a sheltered bay if the weather gets rough and who to call on Christmas day to organise a fresh lobster BBQ on the beach. Joys of it being a half sailing, half hospitality and half maintenance and half cleaning.... Hence the lack of any free time during busy periods!
It IS worth it though, going to be 40c here on Monday, sunny skies and good breezes
When chartering in the Caribbean for instance if you've never been to the islands, don't know the right bays, best times and places for check in and out, where you can get decent quality food and what places are good for restaurants bars you're going to be a bit stuck. Same to a lesser degree in the med. knowing your way around as well as knowing all the yacht systems is very important.
You're going to learn how to rebuild every system on the boats and experience is key to this. Worth it but too many people jump in thinking its just the qyalification that are important forgetting you also need to know where is a sheltered bay if the weather gets rough and who to call on Christmas day to organise a fresh lobster BBQ on the beach. Joys of it being a half sailing, half hospitality and half maintenance and half cleaning.... Hence the lack of any free time during busy periods!
It IS worth it though, going to be 40c here on Monday, sunny skies and good breezes
Be carefull what you wish for.
It is a good life, but it isn't all the glamour it seems. It's hard hard work. If you don't mind that, you'll enjoy it.
I started out 18 years ago, and I have a few more to go. Hopefully.
But the industry has changed a lot.
As has been said above, qualifications, qualifications, and more qualifications.
Then experience. (I did it the other way around)
Catch 22! How can you get experience, and get a foot in the door?
I would say do the ARC, crew on some of the smaller sailboats, and boat hop around the Caribbean for a season or two. Maybe get on a boat coming back over for the Med season.
I started out this way, crewing on Jimmy Cornell's 1994-95 europa round the world rally.
You need to be handy, be able to fix anything. This is what makes you desirable as a crewmember IMO. Paint, varnish, service the M/E or generator. Diagnose an overheating engine, and fix it with no fuss. Or unblock a blocked head....
I left U.K with three thousand pounds to my name, paid my way, and scrubbed hulls to make some extra.
Ran out of money in Fiji, worked on a 60ft charter boat for food, then dropped on an engineering job for three months at $1000 a month on a 120ft motor sailer. That got me to Malaysia. Jumped back on a 46ft ketch as crew, again sharing fuel and food costs, that got me back to the Med with nothing.
I started dayworking, and folks saw I was good with paint. One thing led to another, and I ended up living the dream. 26 meter Jongert for two seasons, Spending what I'd made during the summer on courses in the U.K. during the winter. (Solent in January Brrr!) then an 80 meter MY for 6 years, then got burnt out.
But I saved everything for 6 years, and bought a base outright.
I've been working based in Mallorca now for 10 years. Steady. But it's time for me to move on.
Now I've fallen behind on the paper chase, and I need more qualifications.
Be prepared to invest in yourself. Grab life by the throat and shake it!
What stories will you be able to tell your grand kids?
Good Luck!
It is a good life, but it isn't all the glamour it seems. It's hard hard work. If you don't mind that, you'll enjoy it.
I started out 18 years ago, and I have a few more to go. Hopefully.
But the industry has changed a lot.
As has been said above, qualifications, qualifications, and more qualifications.
Then experience. (I did it the other way around)
Catch 22! How can you get experience, and get a foot in the door?
I would say do the ARC, crew on some of the smaller sailboats, and boat hop around the Caribbean for a season or two. Maybe get on a boat coming back over for the Med season.
I started out this way, crewing on Jimmy Cornell's 1994-95 europa round the world rally.
You need to be handy, be able to fix anything. This is what makes you desirable as a crewmember IMO. Paint, varnish, service the M/E or generator. Diagnose an overheating engine, and fix it with no fuss. Or unblock a blocked head....
I left U.K with three thousand pounds to my name, paid my way, and scrubbed hulls to make some extra.
Ran out of money in Fiji, worked on a 60ft charter boat for food, then dropped on an engineering job for three months at $1000 a month on a 120ft motor sailer. That got me to Malaysia. Jumped back on a 46ft ketch as crew, again sharing fuel and food costs, that got me back to the Med with nothing.
I started dayworking, and folks saw I was good with paint. One thing led to another, and I ended up living the dream. 26 meter Jongert for two seasons, Spending what I'd made during the summer on courses in the U.K. during the winter. (Solent in January Brrr!) then an 80 meter MY for 6 years, then got burnt out.
But I saved everything for 6 years, and bought a base outright.
I've been working based in Mallorca now for 10 years. Steady. But it's time for me to move on.
Now I've fallen behind on the paper chase, and I need more qualifications.
Be prepared to invest in yourself. Grab life by the throat and shake it!
What stories will you be able to tell your grand kids?
Good Luck!
I had the option the become mate on a Oyster 70 but turned it down due to not wanting the yachtie career path.
As has been said above to get to being offer that I did the following.
Family sailing in the solent and comp crew in 98ish.
ARC 99 on a Oyster 46 for a family who were doing the round the world rally. I paid something like £6 a day for the holiday, we went from Gib to Spain to Maderia, Canaries, to St Lucia.
Then swithched onto a Oyster 435 for a few weeks in the sun. I flew home for 99-00 New Years shin dig with family.
Jan 2000 - Delivery of W60 Tokio to Scotland (well that was the plan) we got to the Azores and then were flown home. All expenses covered for the delivery.
May 2000 - Delivery of Oyster 70 Blackwater from Antigue - Bermuda - Azores - Plymouth.
At this point I was asked if I was interested in mate position, yacht was going back for a refurb and then was doing Cowes, Cork week etc and then Med/Carribbean.
That would have been a paid position with the Skipper advising that get YM etc etc would lead to taking over or switching to another Yacht.
As has been said above, you need to be hard working, flexible and "fit". Its a great life, weather can be good and you keep seeing the same people in the most bizare places.
If you want to do go for it! I think getting on a smaller boat to start with and getting established is better than trying to get onto the larger stuff!
As has been said above to get to being offer that I did the following.
Family sailing in the solent and comp crew in 98ish.
ARC 99 on a Oyster 46 for a family who were doing the round the world rally. I paid something like £6 a day for the holiday, we went from Gib to Spain to Maderia, Canaries, to St Lucia.
Then swithched onto a Oyster 435 for a few weeks in the sun. I flew home for 99-00 New Years shin dig with family.
Jan 2000 - Delivery of W60 Tokio to Scotland (well that was the plan) we got to the Azores and then were flown home. All expenses covered for the delivery.
May 2000 - Delivery of Oyster 70 Blackwater from Antigue - Bermuda - Azores - Plymouth.
At this point I was asked if I was interested in mate position, yacht was going back for a refurb and then was doing Cowes, Cork week etc and then Med/Carribbean.
That would have been a paid position with the Skipper advising that get YM etc etc would lead to taking over or switching to another Yacht.
As has been said above, you need to be hard working, flexible and "fit". Its a great life, weather can be good and you keep seeing the same people in the most bizare places.
If you want to do go for it! I think getting on a smaller boat to start with and getting established is better than trying to get onto the larger stuff!
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