Sir Ben & the Americas Cup
Discussion
Penguinracer said:
Burling was under instruction to underperform in the starts during the round robin and challenger finals so as to not reveal the boat's agility and to lull Spithall into a false sense of security.
Find that hard to believe. In terms of sports psychology you don't want to practice 'under-performing'. You may however let that rumour slip out (that you are deliberately under-performing) to play games with the oppositions' minds.I would refer you to 'Born to Win' by John Bertrand (Aussie America's Cup winner) where he described the mind games that helped to win him the 1983 AC.
Edited by Ayahuasca on Saturday 1st July 08:38
That's just what was reported...I'd imagine there was a combination of Burling & the crew's boat handling improving with racing experience and perhaps a deliberate tactic not to come across as too aggressive so that when Spithill & Oracle's coaches reviewed footage of ETNZ's starts they wouldn't be overly concerned.
ETNZ learnt the sorts of lesson from San Francisco which only significant failure can indelibly burn into your psyche & one of those lessons, apart from pushing technology to the limit of the rules, even if that means having to "educate" the measurers (as Oracle did in 2013) is to conceal your developments & capabilities for as long as possible.
Dalton publicly lamented the teams failure to concealing their foiling capability for a few months longer in the run-up to 2013, which could potentially have seen Oracle lower down the development curve.
ETNZ learnt the sorts of lesson from San Francisco which only significant failure can indelibly burn into your psyche & one of those lessons, apart from pushing technology to the limit of the rules, even if that means having to "educate" the measurers (as Oracle did in 2013) is to conceal your developments & capabilities for as long as possible.
Dalton publicly lamented the teams failure to concealing their foiling capability for a few months longer in the run-up to 2013, which could potentially have seen Oracle lower down the development curve.
Ayahuasca said:
My Rule for the next AC:
All competing boats shall depart their home country and arrive in NZ under sail.
Let's see a foiling cat cross the Pacific!
Except the NZ boat wouldn't have to and it would then obliterate all the competition. Anyway, a foiling Trimaran did a 20,000 mile cruise of the Pacific in the early 1970's, departing from California and including stops in Hawaii, New Zealand and various South Pacific islands.All competing boats shall depart their home country and arrive in NZ under sail.
Let's see a foiling cat cross the Pacific!
CrutyRammers said:
AnotherClarkey said:
All that sail, power and crew just to make a big hole in the water and sail like a slug.
If there's anything to be learned from motorsport, it's that ever improved performance does not necessarily increase either the fun or the spectacle. I agree that the AC50's look great and the speed is unbelievable but I don't think the racing was great. One slight mistake and your opponent could get up to hundreds of metres lead on you which lessens the spectacle. It is great seeing monohulls slowly catching another and using tactics to get ahead.
Get a wind shift wrong and you are doing 20 knots instead of 40, on a monohull it maybe 10 instead of 14 which leads to closer racing. Having said that they look amazing when sailing, it's all just a bit point and squirt to me.
Get a wind shift wrong and you are doing 20 knots instead of 40, on a monohull it maybe 10 instead of 14 which leads to closer racing. Having said that they look amazing when sailing, it's all just a bit point and squirt to me.
cb31 said:
I agree that the AC50's look great and the speed is unbelievable but I don't think the racing was great. One slight mistake and your opponent could get up to hundreds of metres lead on you which lessens the spectacle. It is great seeing monohulls slowly catching another and using tactics to get ahead.
Get a wind shift wrong and you are doing 20 knots instead of 40, on a monohull it maybe 10 instead of 14 which leads to closer racing. Having said that they look amazing when sailing, it's all just a bit point and squirt to me.
I think they are really only just beginning to learn how to sail these boats - in the latter stages there were some real glimmers of match racing. This is one of the reasons I hope they stick to similar boats and further develop the skills and tactics to race them, it is almost like the birth of a new sport.Get a wind shift wrong and you are doing 20 knots instead of 40, on a monohull it maybe 10 instead of 14 which leads to closer racing. Having said that they look amazing when sailing, it's all just a bit point and squirt to me.
Edited by AnotherClarkey on Tuesday 4th July 16:03
The issues I have with the AC50s is that whilst acknowledging that there were some isolated instances of what we currently recognise as match racing there is a problem that the slightest mistake and you're probably stuffed and in an irrecoverable position.
An example of that I'll cite the start of the 7th race in the final. Both boats alongside each other on a time and distance approach on starboard, Oracle to windward of Emirates. Whether his timing was a bit out, or he lost his nerve, but he made a very small jink to windward, lost a little bit of speed, two boat lengths behind, now needing a big mistake from Burling to get past.
An example of that I'll cite the start of the 7th race in the final. Both boats alongside each other on a time and distance approach on starboard, Oracle to windward of Emirates. Whether his timing was a bit out, or he lost his nerve, but he made a very small jink to windward, lost a little bit of speed, two boat lengths behind, now needing a big mistake from Burling to get past.
FiF said:
The issues I have with the AC50s is that whilst acknowledging that there were some isolated instances of what we currently recognise as match racing there is a problem that the slightest mistake and you're probably stuffed and in an irrecoverable position.
An example of that I'll cite the start of the 7th race in the final. Both boats alongside each other on a time and distance approach on starboard, Oracle to windward of Emirates. Whether his timing was a bit out, or he lost his nerve, but he made a very small jink to windward, lost a little bit of speed, two boat lengths behind, now needing a big mistake from Burling to get past.
I think it is a fair point. In monos some mistakes were pretty much unrecoverable too though - the gap didn't grow so obviously but they were just as stuffed. One problem in Bermuda was the tight course and ridiculously short races, there simply wasn't time to recover and less opportunity for the leading boat to make a compensating mistake itself.An example of that I'll cite the start of the 7th race in the final. Both boats alongside each other on a time and distance approach on starboard, Oracle to windward of Emirates. Whether his timing was a bit out, or he lost his nerve, but he made a very small jink to windward, lost a little bit of speed, two boat lengths behind, now needing a big mistake from Burling to get past.
AnotherClarkey said:
FiF said:
The issues I have with the AC50s is that whilst acknowledging that there were some isolated instances of what we currently recognise as match racing there is a problem that the slightest mistake and you're probably stuffed and in an irrecoverable position.
An example of that I'll cite the start of the 7th race in the final. Both boats alongside each other on a time and distance approach on starboard, Oracle to windward of Emirates. Whether his timing was a bit out, or he lost his nerve, but he made a very small jink to windward, lost a little bit of speed, two boat lengths behind, now needing a big mistake from Burling to get past.
I think it is a fair point. In monos some mistakes were pretty much unrecoverable too though - the gap didn't grow so obviously but they were just as stuffed. One problem in Bermuda was the tight course and ridiculously short races, there simply wasn't time to recover and less opportunity for the leading boat to make a compensating mistake itself.An example of that I'll cite the start of the 7th race in the final. Both boats alongside each other on a time and distance approach on starboard, Oracle to windward of Emirates. Whether his timing was a bit out, or he lost his nerve, but he made a very small jink to windward, lost a little bit of speed, two boat lengths behind, now needing a big mistake from Burling to get past.
Difficult call because the sheer spectacle must have drawn many in.
Amazing power/weight ratio on the AC75's and I can only imagine the thrill to be part of the team, let alone being on the boat!
As with F1 it is all about money (possibly more so?) to design, build, and put together the best crew, both onboard and shore-side, to make the difference between winning and accepting defeat.
Looking forward to watch the racing and Ben being victorious.
BTW, the Vendee starts tomorrow and I began a new thread over there --->, so let's cheer on Alex to finally achieve his ambition! Quite some challenge and completely different to the short course AC racing but hope we can see a bit of tv coverage?
As with F1 it is all about money (possibly more so?) to design, build, and put together the best crew, both onboard and shore-side, to make the difference between winning and accepting defeat.
Looking forward to watch the racing and Ben being victorious.
BTW, the Vendee starts tomorrow and I began a new thread over there --->, so let's cheer on Alex to finally achieve his ambition! Quite some challenge and completely different to the short course AC racing but hope we can see a bit of tv coverage?
Kicking off tomorrow with the ACWS (Americas Cup World Series Auckland) - good build up video here - https://youtu.be/Oz0TaVH_P3g
It will be fascinating to see them together and stretching their legs.
It will be fascinating to see them together and stretching their legs.
Good start from the Americans.
Interesting piece in the Kiwi press about team owners not being able to get into NZ because they cannot get a confirmed room in an isolation facility. Teams and shore crews granted exceptions because they are deemed essential workers. Team owners grated visas, but not quarantine exemption.
More here...
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/other/team-n...
Interesting piece in the Kiwi press about team owners not being able to get into NZ because they cannot get a confirmed room in an isolation facility. Teams and shore crews granted exceptions because they are deemed essential workers. Team owners grated visas, but not quarantine exemption.
More here...
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/other/team-n...
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