Crash at Shoreham Air show

[anonymous-user]

Robertj21a said:

BBC today - 'No sign that pilot blacked out'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47150...

The comments made by the other display pilot are fairly damning against Hill, regarding both his ‘blacking out’ story and his flying on that day.

[mcdjl]

Lord Marylebone said:

Robertj21a said:

BBC today - 'No sign that pilot blacked out'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47150...

The comments made by the other display pilot are fairly damning against Hill, regarding both his ‘blacking out’ story and his flying on that day.

That would be my thinking. The fact that he can't remember it doesn't to me mean he blacked out, as has been said that's fairly common after a big trauma. Is there anyway the plane would have done what it did without positive input, could be have been passed out hauling back on the stick? That's the reasonable doubt line.. .

[aeropilot]

Lord Marylebone said:

Robertj21a said:

BBC today - 'No sign that pilot blacked out'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47150...

The comments made by the other display pilot are fairly damning against Hill, regarding both his ‘blacking out’ story and his flying on that day.

I think the fact that 'Flapjack' is a prosecution witness is pretty damning in itself. Without doubt the most accomplished and experienced Hunter display driver during the past 20 odd years.

[saaby93]

aeropilot said:

Lord Marylebone said:

Robertj21a said:

BBC today - 'No sign that pilot blacked out'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47150...

The comments made by the other display pilot are fairly damning against Hill, regarding both his ‘blacking out’ story and his flying on that day.

I think the fact that 'Flapjack' is a prosecution witness is pretty damning in itself. Without doubt the most accomplished and experienced Hunter display driver during the past 20 odd years.

Its useful that he's claimed the wings are in stall - some posters here said that too
It still doesnt explain how or why the thing got into that position

[aeropilot]

saaby93 said:

aeropilot said:

Lord Marylebone said:

Robertj21a said:

BBC today - 'No sign that pilot blacked out'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47150...

The comments made by the other display pilot are fairly damning against Hill, regarding both his ‘blacking out’ story and his flying on that day.

I think the fact that 'Flapjack' is a prosecution witness is pretty damning in itself. Without doubt the most accomplished and experienced Hunter display driver during the past 20 odd years.

Its useful that he's claimed the wings are in stall - some posters here said that too
It still doesnt explain how or why the thing got into that position

43 hrs TT on type goes an awful lot of the way to explain it in my book.

[Robertj21a]

Shoreham crash pilot ....... - 'About as negligent as you can get'


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47156...

[anonymous-user]

Robertj21a said:

Shoreham crash pilot ....... - 'About as negligent as you can get'


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47156...

Giving evidence, experienced air display pilot and evaluator, Jonathon Whaley, said that was a "fundamental thing" and you "do not do it".

Mr Whaley said:

"He had all the training, all the knowledge to know that he hadn't achieved his gate height, and none of the parameters were correct to complete safely this manoeuvre.

To me that is about as negligent as you can get in terms of flying."

Ouch.

[Robertj21a]

I guess the defence is just going to say 'loss of memory'.

[aeropilot]

Lord Marylebone said:

Giving evidence, experienced air display pilot and evaluator, Jonathon Whaley, said that was a "fundamental thing" and you "do not do it".

Mr Whaley said:

"He had all the training, all the knowledge to know that he hadn't achieved his gate height, and none of the parameters were correct to complete safely this manoeuvre.

To me that is about as negligent as you can get in terms of flying."

Ouch.

Ouch further if you actually read the AAIB report, as in their view, the pilot didn't have ALL the training and ALL the knowledge......

AAIB Report said:

• The pilot either did not perceive that an escape manoeuvre was necessary, or did not realise that one was possible at the speed achieved at the apex of the manoeuvre.
• The pilot had not received formal training to escape from the accident manoeuvre in a Hunter and had not had his competence to do so assessed.
• The pilot had not practised the technique for escaping from the accident manoeuvre in a Hunter, and did not know the minimum speed from which an escape manoeuvre could be carried out successfully

[Robertj21a]

So, in short, he's looking to be nothing like as skilled and professional as some on here have suggested in the past.

[HoHoHo]

Robertj21a said:

So, in short, he's looking to be nothing like as skilled and professional as some on here have suggested in the past.

Kind of looking like a complete cowboy to be honest.

Let’s hope airshow aviation safety learns a valuable lesson

[aeropilot]

HoHoHo said:

Let’s hope airshow aviation safety learns a valuable lesson

Things have already changed prior to and once the AAIB report came out, that's why most of the privately owned vintage jets have now been grounded or sold - as they are no longer a viable proposition to fly in displays.

The court case isn't about changing any rules.

[2fast748]

More updates from the trial:

Andy Hill not thrill seeking:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47226...

Crack test pilot made mistakes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47201...

[aeropilot]

2fast748 said:

Crack test pilot made mistakes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47201...

Not relevant to the actual display though, as DS rightly points out. Whether anyone in the court room understands that though is another matter!

[oakdale]

Mr Hill has never heard of g-loc apparently.

[saaby93]

At least the expert witness agreed it was better to stay with the plane

beeb said:

Mr Whaley, an ex-Royal Navy pilot who has flown more than 300 displays in the Hawker Hunter, was asked if it would have been "safer for Andy Hill to eject the aircraft rather than to pull through" once he reached "a point when he had no hope".

He responded: "Yes, but that would show no concern for the safety of others."

Karim Khalil QC, defending, asked if Mr Whaley and other experts had agreed that "if he has ejected there may have been more serious loss of life".

"Yes, we agreed that," Mr Whaley responded.

-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47173...

[Mr Pointy]

oakdale said:

Mr Hill has never heard of g-loc apparently.

Can this really be true? I've never flown in a fast jet or been in the RAF but even I've seen numerous descriptions of this on TV & I know why military jet pilots wear pressure suits. It was even mentioned on the Red Arrows programme last week.

Is it really feasible that a Harrier pilot would not know about the effects of g forces & the potential to lose consiousness?

[Fast and Spurious]

oakdale said:

Mr Hill has never heard of g-loc apparently.

He's an idiot.

[oakdale]

Fast and Spurious said:

He's an idiot.

He's certainly not doing himself any favours.

[eccles]

saaby93 said:

At least the expert witness agreed it was better to stay with the plane

beeb said:

Mr Whaley, an ex-Royal Navy pilot who has flown more than 300 displays in the Hawker Hunter, was asked if it would have been "safer for Andy Hill to eject the aircraft rather than to pull through" once he reached "a point when he had no hope".

He responded: "Yes, but that would show no concern for the safety of others."

Karim Khalil QC, defending, asked if Mr Whaley and other experts had agreed that "if he has ejected there may have been more serious loss of life".

"Yes, we agreed that," Mr Whaley responded.

-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-47173...

Perhaps he didn't eject because he didn't realise quite what a position he was in.