Crash at Shoreham Air show

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Discussion

BrabusMog

20,181 posts

187 months

Monday 11th March 2019
quotequote all
El stovey said:
Wozy68 said:
Well done . Great earlier post and response.
Yup, spot on.
If someone crashes an aircraft and kills 11 people, a manslaughter trial is not a show trial.

anonymous-user

55 months

Monday 11th March 2019
quotequote all
BrabusMog said:
El stovey said:
Wozy68 said:
Well done . Great earlier post and response.
Yup, spot on.
If someone crashes an aircraft and kills 11 people, a manslaughter trial is not a show trial.
The point is though that this kind of trial has been on the cards for years and is the end result of infighting between the CPS and the AAIB and the CAA and the CPS have shown they aren’t equipped to handle this kind of technical investigation.

Nobody wins, the victims families are left unhappy, the pilot has been dragged through the dirt and the hard earned and open atmosphere of flight safety and incident reporting just got a bit less open and safe.



IforB

9,840 posts

230 months

Monday 11th March 2019
quotequote all
BrabusMog said:
El stovey said:
Wozy68 said:
Well done . Great earlier post and response.
Yup, spot on.
If someone crashes an aircraft and kills 11 people, a manslaughter trial is not a show trial.
If you said “it shouldn’t be a show trial” then I would agree with you 100%.



Chrisgr31

13,488 posts

256 months

Wednesday 13th March 2019
quotequote all
If I am not mistaken the various experts stated that a the height and speed the pilot was at the aircraft was virtually guaranteed to crash. I don't consider that to be wilfully reckless because I dont see any pilot deliberately carrying out a move virtually guaranteed to kill themselves (well other than if that is their intention).

I cant remember if the base line for aerobatics was 1000ft but on the assumption it was and he came through at 750 or 500 I would say that was wilfully reckless as it would be intentional.

The very fact this move was impossible makes me believe something else want wrong, Personally I would suggest its lack of hours in the aircraft and I wouldnt be surprised if he was thinking of the figures for his more usual aircraft. I suspect this accident is more akin to drivers of lorries and buses that hit low bridges.

andy97

4,703 posts

223 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
Coroner’s report:

“Coroner Penelope Schofield said the plane crashing was "a result of the manner in which it was flown".
A series of errors was serious enough to reach a conclusion, on the balance of probabilities, that the men had been killed as a result of gross negligence manslaughter, she told the inquest in Horsham.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-64040...

NDA

21,620 posts

226 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
andy97 said:
Coroner’s report:

“Coroner Penelope Schofield said the plane crashing was "a result of the manner in which it was flown".
A series of errors was serious enough to reach a conclusion, on the balance of probabilities, that the men had been killed as a result of gross negligence manslaughter, she told the inquest in Horsham.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-64040...
I wonder what this means for the pilot? Will the victim's families get justice for these avoidable deaths?

PurpleTurtle

7,016 posts

145 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
Does that clear the way for the victims' families to sue the pilot/aircraft operator (ultimately their insurers) for compensation?

thebraketester

14,253 posts

139 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
What was found to be the cause of the accident??

Petrus1983

8,774 posts

163 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
thebraketester said:
What was found to be the cause of the accident??
Pilot error.

andy97

4,703 posts

223 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
thebraketester said:
What was found to be the cause of the accident??
“Coroner Penelope Schofield said the plane crashing was "a result of the manner in which it was flown……..gross negligence”

TopTrump

3,228 posts

175 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
Is the pilot in prison then?

andy97

4,703 posts

223 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
TopTrump said:
Is the pilot in prison then?
No, he was found not guilty in a criminal TRIAL where the burden of proof is a higher bar to reach, being “beyond reasonable doubt”. The Coroner’s INQUEST came to their conclusions on the “balance of probabilities”.

You can’t be tried more than once for the same “offence” but it will be up to the families of the victims now to determine whether they want to proceed with a civil prosecution for damages.

NDA

21,620 posts

226 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
If you'd lost your son/brother/dad due to 'gross negligence', I think most people would want justice.

SydneyBridge

8,643 posts

159 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
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The pilot/plane owner and/or airshow organisers will have extensive liability insurance for such a sad event

Bonefish Blues

26,838 posts

224 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
Justice would, however, be a financial settlement, nota criminal sanction - doubtless (unless someone knows better?) paid by an insurer, either the pilot's or the airshow's?

TopTrump

3,228 posts

175 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
andy97 said:
No, he was found not guilty in a criminal TRIAL where the burden of proof is a higher bar to reach, being “beyond reasonable doubt”. The Coroner’s INQUEST came to their conclusions on the “balance of probabilities”.

You can’t be tried more than once for the same “offence” but it will be up to the families of the victims now to determine whether they want to proceed with a civil prosecution for damages.
Seems wrong. Thanks for explaining

Bonefish Blues

26,838 posts

224 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
TopTrump said:
andy97 said:
No, he was found not guilty in a criminal TRIAL where the burden of proof is a higher bar to reach, being “beyond reasonable doubt”. The Coroner’s INQUEST came to their conclusions on the “balance of probabilities”.

You can’t be tried more than once for the same “offence” but it will be up to the families of the victims now to determine whether they want to proceed with a civil prosecution for damages.
Seems wrong. Thanks for explaining
cf OJ Simpson any many other cases.

Dashnine

1,313 posts

51 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
So was the pilot charged with the wrong offence? If the criminal trial failed to cross the bar for a guilty verdict, but the inquest rules he was unlawfully killed, who’s wrong or dropped the ball?

The guy should be found guilty of manslaughter, death by dangerous flying, flying without due care and attention (to paraphrase motoring offences) of some sort, surely given that he apparently had two opportunities to abort the manoeuvre and took neither?

thebraketester

14,253 posts

139 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
andy97 said:
thebraketester said:
What was found to be the cause of the accident??
“Coroner Penelope Schofield said the plane crashing was "a result of the manner in which it was flown……..gross negligence”
Thanks.

It won’t bring those innocent people back to life but he should be behind bars. IMO of course.

Venisonpie

3,293 posts

83 months

Tuesday 20th December 2022
quotequote all
thebraketester said:
Thanks.

It won’t bring those innocent people back to life but he should be behind bars. IMO of course.
Agreed.

Up until May this year I worked with someone who lost a family member in the incident (I won't call it an accident because it wasn't) and I've never met such a haunted person in my life. I've no idea how the legal situation has led to the pilot being free but it's not justice.