The CAA have officially killed UK airshows
Discussion
kurt535 said:
55palfers said:
I understand aircraft are still coming in over the M1 at Kegworth...
CAA have a specific low flying rule we are graciously allowed to bust so we can land. they are nice people....NJK44 said:
Announcement made by the CAA today.
No flying below 500ft if the crowd are within 1000m of the display.
They've literally just shot UK Airshows in the face. Ruined.
The CAA are c**ts.
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SafetyNotice20...
On the contrary, given the number of innocents killed at Shoreham, it seems like a very sensible requirement. Perhaps people should consider other people's lives more than a hobby.No flying below 500ft if the crowd are within 1000m of the display.
They've literally just shot UK Airshows in the face. Ruined.
The CAA are c**ts.
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SafetyNotice20...
NJK44 said:
Announcement made by the CAA today.
No flying below 500ft if the crowd are within 1000m of the display.
They've literally just shot UK Airshows in the face. Ruined.
The CAA are c**ts.
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SafetyNotice20...
That's not how I read it. It says:No flying below 500ft if the crowd are within 1000m of the display.
They've literally just shot UK Airshows in the face. Ruined.
The CAA are c**ts.
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SafetyNotice20...
"...Flying Displays, Air Races and Contests’, permitted aircraft taking part in a flying display, air race or contest to fly below 150 metres (500 feet) above the ground or water or closer than 150 metres (500 feet) to any person, vessel, vehicle or structure if it is within a horizontal distance of 1,000 metres of the gathering of persons assembled to witness the event...."
I read that as this: you can display at a 500ft min, above a runway if we are alongside the runway, but if the display is level (ie we are on a cliff top, the display is out at sea and the aircraft is "level" with us) then they cannot be below 500ft is closer then 1km from the people.
But the fact that two of us have read it and read it differently shows it needs clarification...
Killed UK air shows? I doubt this will make not one bit of difference to the turnouts at RIAT, Bournemouth etc.
Some smaller shows might die off as a result of the negative publicity and lack of interesting aircraft, but as a nation we're blessed with an insane amount of shows as it is, something was always going to trigger a bit of thinning out one day, be it the economy or whatever.
Some smaller shows might die off as a result of the negative publicity and lack of interesting aircraft, but as a nation we're blessed with an insane amount of shows as it is, something was always going to trigger a bit of thinning out one day, be it the economy or whatever.
ukaskew said:
but as a nation we're blessed with an insane amount of shows as it is, something was always going to trigger a bit of thinning out one day, be it the economy or whatever.
I guess you're quite young, as if you think we have an insane amount of airshows I wonder what you would call the amount we used to have in the early 80's let alone decades earlier!!Circumstances have already seen a dramatic thinning over the past 15-20 years even before the aftermath of Shoreham.
Media fueled knee-jerk reaction was always going to be the route the CAA were going to take, largely as an arse-covering exercise.
Robertj21a said:
On the contrary, given the number of innocents killed at Shoreham, it seems like a very sensible requirement. Perhaps people should consider other people's lives more than a hobby.
Are you suggesting this rule would have prevented what happened at Shoreham? Bear in mind the relevant manoeuvre was legally required to be completed above 500 feet anyway.It's not that hard and fast a rule, they're already granting exemptions....
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?1390...
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?1390...
eccles said:
It's not that hard and fast a rule, they're already granting exemptions....
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?1390...
Although to be fair, whether 75m or 1000m away, that's got to be one of the dullest displays in the history of displays.http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?1390...
I was at the Fly Navy show at Old Warden on Sunday. And while the display line has clearly moved back somewhat, I did not feel that it had detracted from the event. The Sea Vixen performed it's 'flat' display, and to be honest I felt it left nothing to be desired - brilliant, as this photo by my friend Darren Harbar illustrates:
Edited by Boatbuoy on Tuesday 7th June 10:02
Dr Jekyll said:
Are you suggesting this rule would have prevented what happened at Shoreham? Bear in mind the relevant manoeuvre was legally required to be completed above 500 feet anyway.
And whilst Shoreham was undoubtedly very sad, how do you legislate/mitigate for a plane crashing from any height? Was the cause of the particular accident attributed to the pilot operating below 500ft, when, as already been pointed out, those manoeuvres were set for greater than 500ft? Boatbuoy said:
I was at the Fly Navy show at Old Warden on Sunday. And while the display line has clearly moved back somewhat, I did not feel that it had detracted from the event. The Sea Vixen performed it's 'flat' display, and to be honest I felt it left nothing to be desired - brilliant, as this photo by my friend Darren Harbar illustrates
The new rules wouldn't have been in force on Sunday. They were effective immediately as of yesterday. Nice photo though!
aeropilot said:
I guess you're quite young, as if you think we have an insane amount of airshows I wonder what you would call the amount we used to have in the early 80's let alone decades earlier!!
Old enough to remember going to IAT down the road at Boscombe as a 10 year old (my 4th or 5th airshow, I think), but no, not that old!I'd of course be sad to see any go (Kemble/Cotswold was my favourite), but we do seem to have an awful lot, so it wouldn't surprise me if it thinned out a little with the tighter regs.
ukaskew said:
aeropilot said:
I guess you're quite young, as if you think we have an insane amount of airshows I wonder what you would call the amount we used to have in the early 80's let alone decades earlier!!
Old enough to remember going to IAT down the road at Boscombe as a 10 year old (my 4th or 5th airshow, I think), but no, not that old!I'd of course be sad to see any go (Kemble/Cotswold was my favourite), but we do seem to have an awful lot, so it wouldn't surprise me if it thinned out a little with the tighter regs.
I assume you live within 100 miles of London if you think there is an "insane amount" of airshows to go to.
On the subject of this new rule - I am quite passionate about airshows and aeroplanes in general. Despite this, I can recognise when things are done to the detriment of my interests for the protection or benefit of others. In this case however, I genuinely don't think it will benefit anyone at all. Shoreham wasn't the result of display lines or ceilings, and anyone who thinks the new rule will help just doesn't understand how aeroplanes fly (or crash).
This is like thinking the way to prevent a repeat of someone entering a village at 80mph and crashing in to a bus stop is by lowering the speed limit from 30mph to 20mph.
NJK44 said:
Yes, what happened at shoreham was BAD!
BUT, this is a HUGE knee jerk reaction. There's been no deaths in what? 50-60 years. This was a one off, isolated incident and I think it's ridiculous.
However, I'm hearing rumour that the CAA have worded it wrong and they will be releasing it again soon. I've also been told by someone that the head of RIAT operations has said its not true. How much credibility he has? No idea.
My fingers are crossed but it is not looking good for airshows in the uk.
I enjoy a good airshow as much as the next person, however I do not want to get up close and personal with them when they land on me. The lack of deaths at air shows is just as much by luck than judgement. If the CAA did not do their job, strictly, there would be no more airshows as there would have been more tragic accidents.BUT, this is a HUGE knee jerk reaction. There's been no deaths in what? 50-60 years. This was a one off, isolated incident and I think it's ridiculous.
However, I'm hearing rumour that the CAA have worded it wrong and they will be releasing it again soon. I've also been told by someone that the head of RIAT operations has said its not true. How much credibility he has? No idea.
My fingers are crossed but it is not looking good for airshows in the uk.
Here is an airshow accident, from last weekend, where there could easily have been fatalities.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-364...
Edited by psgcarey on Wednesday 8th June 13:03
Speaking with a display pilot at the weekend, the quote was "Andy has f
ked the airshow scene in the UK"
Will wait for the official report, but at the end of the day the CAA have to be seen to be doing something, even if it is an obvious kneejerk over-reaction.
Duxford was not as much fun this year, the flying seemed slower due to the additional distance from the crowd, and the crowds on the Saturday were noticeably down on previous years - though, the no tickets on the day may have something to do with that
ked the airshow scene in the UK"Will wait for the official report, but at the end of the day the CAA have to be seen to be doing something, even if it is an obvious kneejerk over-reaction.
Duxford was not as much fun this year, the flying seemed slower due to the additional distance from the crowd, and the crowds on the Saturday were noticeably down on previous years - though, the no tickets on the day may have something to do with that
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