Train derailed automatically Paddington

[legzr1]

Your consternation is shared within the industry.

Apparently, it's only dangerous when a driver passes a red hence SPAD.

All other scenarios are right side failures - a signal displaying a green then reverting to red because of a balls up in the signal box is simply a red passed, not a 'danger' signal passed hence SPAR.

Clear?

[texaxile]

RemyMartin said:

In our company. Answer is to make it harder to join and stop employing dozy tts.

I work a lot with freight and 3 different TOC's, I was perhaps (mistakenly) under the impression that the criteria for joining across the board is fairly strict anyway, and I've seen a few examples where the driver has been taken off the footplate for good after one or more incidents.

I'd ask if there is an Industry shortage of drivers given that a lot of the older BR boys are now hitting retirement and if that has an impact on the quality of candidates coming through now, because in my own personal experience I've been in the company of blokes who have worked up from being 2nd Men right through to a lad who 8 months previous was stacking tins of beans in Tesco.

Edited by texaxile on Tuesday 21st June 23:39

[blueg33]

I may be strong, but surely driving a train is no harder than driving a bus? You Dont even have to make the right turnings, only have to know if you have been routed incorrectly.

[texaxile]

blueg33 said:

I may be strong, but surely driving a train is no harder than driving a bus? You Dont even have to make the right turnings, only have to know if you have been routed incorrectly.

how strong are you then lol?.

seriously, from what I know and going just by the rulebook I have to know for my job which is less than half that of a Drivers, it is very involved and complex. It's not just about looking at a signal and obeying it, there are numerous procedures for a failed train, track conditions / track workers / failed signals / entering sidings etc etc etc.

Also, if you see another bus coming toward you, it's possible to swerve or stop in time. This is slightly more difficult when there's 2000 tonnes moving at 70 mph and you are in a vehicle that doesn't have a steering wheel.

[Podie]

texaxile said:

blueg33 said:

I may be strong, but surely driving a train is no harder than driving a bus? You Dont even have to make the right turnings, only have to know if you have been routed incorrectly.

how strong are you then lol?.

seriously, from what I know and going just by the rulebook I have to know for my job which is less than half that of a Drivers, it is very involved and complex. It's not just about looking at a signal and obeying it, there are numerous procedures for a failed train, track conditions / track workers / failed signals / entering sidings etc etc etc.

Also, if you see another bus coming toward you, it's possible to swerve or stop in time. This is slightly more difficult when there's 2000 tonnes moving at 70 mph and you are in a vehicle that doesn't have a steering wheel.

Route knowledge and train knowledge for a start. Imagine having to pass a test for each car and each road you wanted to us.

Having had a cab ride a few years ago, I was surprised how fast 80mph feels compared with a car. The number of signals on the WCML route we were on were bewildering and quite a surprise. Then again, if someone's job looks easy, they're usually good at it.

There's a thread on here somewhere of someone who trained to be a driver.

[valiant]

When learning to drive a bus, you already know how to drive, the Highway Code,etc. How many bus companies train up complete novices who've never sat behind a steering wheel? They build on existing knowledge.

With trains, you start from absolute scratch.

Why people compare driving a train to driving a bus, I've no idea. Aside from carrying passengers and having wheels the two jobs are completely different with there own pressures and stresses.

[Rick101]

Must be easy being a pilot too, nothing much to hit up there

[valiant]

Rick101 said:

Must be easy being a pilot too, nothing much to hit up there

Piece of piss.

It's all done by autopilot nowadays. Thing even lands itself. Pilot is only there to reassure passengers any ways...


only kidding

[legzr1]

texaxile said:

how strong are you then lol?.

seriously, from what I know and going just by the rulebook I have to know for my job which is less than half that of a Drivers, it is very involved and complex. It's not just about looking at a signal and obeying it, there are numerous procedures for a failed train, track conditions / track workers / failed signals / entering sidings etc etc etc.

Also, if you see another bus coming toward you, it's possible to swerve or stop in time. This is slightly more difficult when there's 2000 tonnes moving at 70 mph and you are in a vehicle that doesn't have a steering wheel.

The simplest explanation is that it's not really a difficult job when you've had the correct training and everything in the system is running smoothly.

The slightly more difficult part is knowing what to do when everything goes wrong and having knowledge of the roles of other staff telling you what to do - accepting the word of someone who doesn't have the authority and gives incorrect information will see you both out of the door.

Add in seasonal weather or thick fog giving 20M visibility, you're on your 4th 01:20 start of the week and a little bit of temporary block working and those balmy summer evenings with green signals all the way home seem a distant memory.

[blueg33]

Rick101 said:

Must be easy being a pilot too, nothing much to hit up there

I have. Ppl. It's not that hard. The hardest part is navigation. Obviously complex commercial airliners are harder.

Train drivers don't have to navigate, the route is pre determined. I agree that there are a bewildering array of signals, and a load of safety stuff, but the signals follow a prescribed design and the safety stuff isn't really about operating the train more about dealing with incidents.

I know a couple of guys who drive steam engines on tourist lines. They don't go on about it being hard to drive a train

Fully accept I can be wrong, but I am not convinced that actually driving the thing is difficult.

Mind you, driving a car isn't hard, but many people seem to struggle.

[legzr1]

blueg33 said:

I have. Ppl. It's not that hard. The hardest part is navigation. Obviously complex commercial airliners are harder.



I know a couple of guys who drive steam engines on tourist lines. They don't go on about it being hard to drive a train

There's an interesting analogy right there - steam on private lines is limited to what? 25mph? On a few miles of simple track?
Do you think they'd find driving from Edinburgh to Birmingham at varying speeds up to and including 125mph on various types of signalling and block working just as easy?
Bit like a PPL finding it easy compared to a commercial London - Brisbane flight

[blueg33]

legzr1 said:

blueg33 said:

I have. Ppl. It's not that hard. The hardest part is navigation. Obviously complex commercial airliners are harder.



I know a couple of guys who drive steam engines on tourist lines. They don't go on about it being hard to drive a train

There's an interesting analogy right there - steam on private lines is limited to what? 25mph? On a few miles of simple track?
Do you think they'd find driving from Edinburgh to Birmingham at varying speeds up to and including 125mph on various types of signalling and block working just as easy?
Bit like a PPL finding it easy compared to a commercial London - Brisbane flight

I am sure you are right. Although there are more computers helping you onto the glide path for Brisbane than there are at Wellesbourne's grass strip. Like more computers are helping mainline trains than steam trains.

[legzr1]

The mechanics of 'driving' a train are relatively straight forward just like the mechanics of finding the biting point on the clutch of a car.

Once on the move, rules/regulations/laws make it a little more difficult.

ETA:

I'm not sure which onboard computers you're talking about - signal boxes have ARS (auto route setting) but that's far from foolproof and has little bearing on the mechanics of actually driving (bar the frustration of the system getting it wrong again).

Edited by legzr1 on Thursday 23 June 14:57

[blueg33]

legzr1 said:

The mechanics of 'driving' a train are relatively straight forward just like the mechanics of finding the biting point on the clutch of a car.

Once on the move, rules/regulations/laws make it a little more difficult.

ETA:

I'm not sure which onboard computers you're talking about - signal boxes have ARS (auto route setting) but that's far from foolproof and has little bearing on the mechanics of actually driving (bar the frustration of the system getting it wrong again).

Edited by legzr1 on Thursday 23 June 14:57

I was thinking more about en-route computers TBH. I had a feeling the mechanics of driving aren't the hard bit.

[tight5]

blueg33 said:

I was thinking more about en-route computers

What are those ?

[blueg33]

tight5 said:

blueg33 said:

I was thinking more about en-route computers

What are those ?

Things like auto route setting and whatever else there is. Most of the trains are sol old I cant see that there will be many computers on board

[tight5]

Auto route setting is signalling.
Doesn't do much for the driver.
The locos with computers drive in a similar way to those without, the only benefit is in fault finding(in my experience).

[legzr1]

tight5 said:

Auto route setting is signalling.
Doesn't do much for the driver.
The locos with computers drive in a similar way to those without, the only benefit is in fault finding(in my experience).

Maybe wheel creep/slow speed too but that's about it.

Every time I failed with a Cl 60 is was always a computer fault!

[rs1952]

blueg33 said:

Most of the trains are so old I cant see that there will be many computers on board

Unfortunately statements like that suggest a lack of understanding of the subject.

There are steam locomotives running on the main line with all sorts of retro-fitted electrical gubbins.

[Stedman]

My mate - who is a commercial pilot - asked me how many signals I 'sign', it's between 1000-1300. He simply didn't believe me that I know exactly what every single one does, why it does it, what it means etc etc. Every single one! And that's just part of the job.